Oh, I'm so glad I read your post! I needed something to make me laugh. Its been a rough couple of days!<P>What is the deal with counselors these days anyway? I had one tell me that since I have forgiven H for his adultery that I HAVE to forget all about it, and never bring it up again. Now, I tried to explain that I didn't feel it was resolved and was told that if I didn't trust H and never bring up his affair again "I" would ruin our marriage. Excuse me? My H was the one who had the affair while I was home cooking for him, cleaning his house, mowing his lawn, taking care of his child, paying his bills, doing his laundry, etc. etc. etc. <P>I think the other counselor just wanted my insurance money. I felt like nothing was being accomplished because she basically just chit-chatted about what I'd been doing, did I see any good movies (?) etc. <P>And, I've heard this many times too<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>but if he doesn't come for counseling and stop drinking nothing is ever going to change<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thank you for letting me know that I am not the only one who thinks that a marriage to an alcoholic can be saved. <P>Thanks again for giving me something to giggle about. I needed that tonight.<P>

Wassi,<P>One last thought after reading this thread...and a post script to the e-mail I sent a while ago...<P><B>Put a stop payment on the check!!!!!!</B> If the insurance paid it then I will have to think about it and figure out another way.<P>Love yah honey,<BR>Talk to you tomorrow afternoon.<P>No wonder counselors go to counselors? They are all way more off then us. They are just not intuitive enough to see it. Sorry Steve and Jennifer Harley. You guys are excluded from my generalization <P>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't lose! What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited April 07, 2000).]

Morning Sheba!!<BR>I had a great sleep thanks to you all. See! I needed to talk to you guys instead of that twit! He did accomplish one thing though - I'm angry at him now instead of BWQ. <P>Alcoholic's Wife<BR>Glad this helped. And thanks for sharing your experience with me. You know there are a lot worse things on this earth than an Alcoholic. My Grandfather and favorite uncle were alcoholics. They were alcoholics but they were much more than that. They were two of the finest men I have ever known. I feel another vent coming on so I'll stop. Suffice it to say that this twit was trying to tell me I was making excuses for H and then he turned around and blamed everything on the alcohol. Hypocrisy?<P>Sam<BR>I paid in advance in cash. That's okay though !st session was free and second was $20. I could have got a new CD for that but hey, look at all the free counseling I get here. I'm waiting to hear from you. Hang in there. And don't forget the people here are there for you too.

Wasstubborn,<P>Reading through your account of your "conversation' with the counsellor, I think it's pretty safe to say, this guy's got issues to deal with. Drop him. <P>This counsellor doesn't sound like a good match for you. There is no reasn to go back to him. Definately shop around, talk to prospective counsellors on the phone, ask them what their background and approach is. You can get a pretty good feel for them just from that. Make the first appointment as a sample to see how they work. Settle on one when you feel not just comfortable, but positve about the counsellor.<P>Now his blunt manner aside, this counsellor may have said a few good things that you just don't want to hear. In my opinion, your H is 100% responsible for his actions, even if he was "affair crazy" when it happened. The OW is also 100% responsible for her actions. You are 100% responsible for your actions. And no one is responsible for the actions of another.<P>You are justified in being angry at the OW and at your H, but your relationship is with your H, so that is where you should focus your attention.<P>Shop around,<BR>Kenneth<P>

Hi WS,<P>Good thing you didn't tell the Plutonian what you thought of him, he'd need someone to pick up his pieces.

WS, what a pain in the butt. Well, at least this counselor HAD been married, Guard's counselor is about 25, I think he's almost old enough to start dating...the first one we went to also had never been married, no kids, was terribly depressed, I seriously thought he was probably gay--not that there is anything wrong with that (a la Jerry Seinfeld's famous line), but their personal issues can slop over on the counselee. Education and training can be meaningless if you don't have something to make it real to you, not that every counselor needs to have every problem--God forbid! But if they are counseling in relationships, it does help if they have had at least one good one...even if it was just their mother and some familiarity with common sense about bad relationships. <P>Have you tried talking to your pastor? I went into mine about a week ago and he was so gentle with me, considering my EA. Although he did use the sh word in referring to my life, which did surprise me a bit. It's true, so I don't take offense. <P>There are good people out there, Wassi, finding them is another whole thing...My Christian counselor was great and constantly helped me with resentment and anger. (Gee, maybe I should go back, but he didn't think I should go for the divorce...)<P>I wish all the best for you<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

Hi Kenneth<BR>Thank you for your opinion. The only person at this session that wasn't listening was the counselor. <BR>sheba is very correct when she says the word "generic".<BR>This guy places all situations in one basket and he doesn't know a whole lot about many situations.<BR>My issues with BWQ are from about 7 years before she slept with my H. These issues are between me and her. The reason those issues are still with me is that I chose the path of not dealing with them. Telling myself she would go away and that my relationship was with my H. There really are women in this world who prey on men. <P>I have also learned through my research in the last year that the best thing we can do for the OP is to ignore their existance. in that way they get to ignore ours. They can play their little games without guilt because we simply don't exist. I'm not into giving BWQ that satisfaction anymore. She now knows that I exist. She has had to face my existance. Funny thing is that once I called her and wrote her a letter, she disappeared. My quit calling her in April of last year. She was the one who continued calling. Until I called. I didn't raise my voice. I didn't call her names. I explained a couple of things and asked her how she felt about it. Then I offered my H to her on a silver platter. He didn't go to her. End of problem. If I hadn't done that she would still be calling. She would be able to ignore my existance. <BR>I'm rambling I know. All I'm saying is that things are much more complicated than "It's my H's fault and she has nothing to do with it". I dealt with my anger towards h a long time ago. We dealt with it together. I went to this guy to get help dealing with the things I ignored 7 years ago. He didn't want to listen. I don't need him.<P>hanora<BR>Am I really that bad? <BR>Pluto is fairly accurate I think! <P>Here's one you'll all get a kick out of:<P>The only constructive thing this guy suggested was for me to write a letter to BWQ and burn it. Me the bonfire queen!<BR>Apparently he hasn't been looking to the East the last year.

Lor<BR>We were posting at the same time. <BR>I like the idea of the priest (Catholic remember - strong Irish Catholic temper )<BR>I don't think ours likes women much so I'm sure he wouldn't help me. If he doesn't like women in general I'd probably send him to a retreat! <P>Have thought about a nun though. Seriously. Sheba will laugh if she reads that. I could go spend a weekend in a convent. I have considered it a few times.<P>Maybe you should go back Lor. No matter what happens in the future, if you have someone that can help you go for it.<P>I have better things to do than waste time and money looking for a counselor here. If I can manage the funds I will try calling the Harleys. That I think is my only realistic option. <BR>Thanks for always being a friend!!!

<P>"Looking to the East...."<P><BR>LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!<P>Oh, you crack me up!!!<P>Glad you slept well....I still say we should take ourselves on the road with this stuff!!! LOL!!<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba

<B>wasstubborn</B>... and everyone else who had similar experience with counselors/therapists/pyschologists/psychiatrists/etc...<P>(I know this doesn't compete with the thread on lawyers...<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/010667.html" TARGET=_blank>These Atty's are getting on my NERVES!</A>...)<P>But... here goes... (a little more humor)<BR>Please don't tell me it hits too close to home though!<P>Q. Why do psychiatrists give their patients shock treatment?<BR>A. To prepare them for the bill.<P>"I'm treating a patient with a split personality," boasted a psychiatrist, and "Medicare pays for both of them!"<P>Patient: Doctor, my wife thinks I'm crazy because I like sausages.<BR>Psychiatrist: Nonsense! I like sausages too.<BR>Patient: Good, you should come and see my collection. I've got hundreds.<P>Man goes to a psychiatrist; psychiatrist sez,"You're!"<BR>Man sez, "I want a second opinion!"<BR>Psychiatrist sez, "OK, yer ugly too!"<P>Two psychiatrists meet on the street. One says to the other, "You know, I thought I'd been completely analyzed, but yesterday I experienced the most remarkable Freudian Slip."<BR>The friend nods and waits to hear more....<BR>The first psychiatrist continues, "I was having dinner with my mother, and I meant to say", "Please pass the butter", but instead I said, "You miserable b!tch, you've ruined my life!"<P>Two psychiatrists pass in the hall. The first says, "hello."<BR>The other thinks, "I wonder what he meant by that."<P>Patient: Doctor, I'm manic depressive.<BR>Psychiatrist: Calm down, cheer up, calm down, cheer up, calm down...<P>How many psychologists does it take to change a light bulb?<BR>A1. None. The light bulb will change itself when it's ready.<BR>A2. Just one, but the light bulb really has to want to change.<BR>A3. Just one, but it takes nine visits.<BR>A4. "How long have you been having this fantasy?"<BR>A5. One, but he must consult the DSM-IV.<BR>A6. "How many do <B><I>you</I></B> think it takes?"<P>What is the best thing about schizophrenia?<BR>You're never alone.<P>Neurotics build castles in the sky.<BR>Psychotics live in them.<BR>Psychiatrists collect the rent.<P>What is the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist?<BR>If you say to a psychiatrist "I hate my mother," he will ask "Why do you say that?" while a psychologist will say "Thank you for sharing that with us."<P>What's the difference between a psychologist and a magician?<BR>A psychologist pulls habits out of rats!<P>Psychiatrist to his nurse: "Just say we're very busy. Don't keep saying 'It's a madhouse.'"<P>Why is psychoanalysis a lot quicker for a man then for a women?<BR>Because when it's time to go back to childhood, a man is already there.<P>Two psychologists meet at their twentieth college reunion. One of them looks like he just graduated, while the other psychologist looks old, worried and withered.<BR>The older looking one asks the other, "What's your secret? Listening to other people's problems every day, all day long, for years on end, has made an old man of me."<BR>The younger looking one replies, "Who listens?"<P>When the new patient was settled comfortably on the couch, the physiatrist began his therapy session, "I'm not aware of your problem," the doctor said. "So perhaps, you should start at the very beginning."<BR>"Of course." replied the patient. "In the beginning, I created the Heavens and the Earth..."<P>How do you tell the difference between the staff and the inmates at a psychiatric hospital?<BR>A1. The patients get better and leave.<BR>A2. Not everyone of the patients thinks he is God.<BR>A3. The staff have the keys!<P>Patient: Doctor, you must help me. I'm under such a lot of stress, I keep losing my temper with people.<BR>Doctor: Tell me about your problem.<BR>Patient: I JUST DID, DIDN'T I, YOU STUPID B@ST@RD!!!<P>-----------------------------------------------------------------<P>"The Psychiatric Hotline" <P> Hello, and welcome to the Psychiatric Hotline. <P> If you are obsessive compulsive, please press 1 repeatedly.<P> If you are co-dependent, please ask someone to press 2.<P> If you have multiple personalities, please press 3, 4, 5, and 6.<P> If you are paranoid-delusional, we know who you are and what you want. <BR> Just stay on the line until we trace the call.<P> If you are schizophrenic, listen carefully and a little voice will tell you<BR> which number to press.<P> If you are manic depressive, it doesn't matter which number you press. No<BR> one will answer.<P>-----------------------------------------------------------------<P> <P>Jim

Hey you posted more.....so I laugh more!!!!<P>LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!<P>Two got me this time...."send him to a retreat...." ROFLMAO!!!!!<P>"Nunnery....Seriously." LOLOLOLOLOL!!<P>Let's go!!!

Well, given my current situation, you'll probably laugh when I tell you I've considered a nunnery as well. <P>There's a Benedictine monastery, with nuns, in North Dakota. It sounds so peaceful. If you get a chance, read DAKOTA: a spiritual geography, or CLOISTER WALK both by Kathleen Norris. I found them so serene. Took me forever to get through, though.<P><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

When you got to the part that he had divorced his wife, it finally made a bit of sense.<P>Sounds like this guy has not even tried to work through the things we are working through to save our marriage.<P>I've wondered if a counsellor would help me personally, but I expect most of them to be real bad.<P>So even if he is responsible for what he did, and no, I haven't heard you defending him, what does telling you that again resolve??? We know they are responsible for their actions and we choose to forgive and go forward.<P>Someone 9(a friend) just yesterday gave me advice similar to what AW said,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I had one tell me that since I have forgiven H for his adultery that I HAVE to forget all about it, and never bring it up again. Now, I tried to explain that I didn't feel it was resolved and was told that if I didn't trust H and never bring up his affair again "I" would ruin our marriage.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Not forget, but leave it in the past, as my ace in the hole in case I ever do something really bad.<P>I believe this is true. I am driving him away by overreacting to triggers while he is being sooo good to me. At least for me, it is time to treat him as if this never happened and not bring it up again. This may also mean I have to move on from MB.<P>Anyway, I too have thought about counselling, but I am going to make the effort to just leave it in the past. Have you tried it WS? Each day I make it without bringing up the EA, I will note it in my diary. It's as much for me as for him. NSR had a very good link to an article on giving OURSELVES the gift of forgiveness since the resentment mostly hurts ourselves.

Thank You Jim!<BR>You made my day. Can I send that to the twit?<BR>My personal favorite - the "Who listens" one.

Sheba<BR>I think I told you before how I love to make you laugh.<P>Lor<BR>I really am serious about the convent too. Maybe we could find one halfway between us!<BR>My Aunt was a nun and we used to visit her every Sunday. There is no more peaceful place on Earth. I think it's as close to heaven on earth as you can get.<P>H asked me the other day what I would have done if we had split. I told him I would have become a nun. I think you can do that now even if you've been married.<P>schizzo<BR>Thanks for the suggestions. We hardly ever talk about the Affair. We do need to address the "friendship" part because it is the most damaging and hasn't been addressed.<BR>However I have forgiven H for the affair.<BR>We will need to get through some things that were ignored pre affair. Right now though I am enjoying being with him way to much to bother. I think the best thing I did was to ditch the meds. They did their job but kept me from enjoying life. I was on a constant level and couldn't go up. It was time.<BR>I think you are doing great! We will get through this as long as we don't try ignoring what needs to be done.

<BR>LOLOLOLOL!!<BR>Great jokes!!! Thanks NSR!!!<P>One question about the nunnery thing for you and Lor though WS.......<P>Do they get cable or satellite?<P>Cuz you know I am right there with you, but it's baseball season now and I have to watch my Yankees......maybe we could go in search of some "peace" in the fall!! It's a lovely time of year!! Leaves changing color; crisp, fresh air; and aren't those nunneries cold? Would be a wonderful time for fireplaces!!!<P>But I am right there with you ..whenever you want...<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba

Sheba<BR>I'm pretty sure they at least have cable.<BR>I'll check with my aunt!<P>And I promise you will know when I set the date. Open invitation!<BR>Most convents that I know of are regular houses now. The last time I visited my Aunt in one she lived in a lovely house with a beautiful sitting room. <BR>However I was a teenager and she caught me smoking in the bedroom I was staying in.<BR>She suggested that if I was going to smoke it would be safer to do it in the sitting room. <BR>Then she taught me to say the "Hail Mary" in French!

Sheez ws, I had no idea my first counselor moved to your town! Buzzers, bells and warning lights all going off and they are deafening.....<BR>Ask for a refund and go on vacation with the money?! I miss you!

WS,<BR>I wannna go too......<BR>Here are my conditions::::::::<P>1) Teal Habits<BR>2) Pepsi machine in every room<BR>3) Play room for my Granbaby<BR>4) Fenced yard for my Granpuppy<BR>5) Golf Course for my H (yes, he goes with me EVERYWHERE!!!!!)<BR>6) Computer in my room<BR>7) Walking distance to a HUGE mall<BR>8) Pizza Hut Pizza<BR>9) Fireplace<P>It's a GO!!!!!!<BR>

cl <BR>How wonderful to see your name here!<BR>Was your first counselor REALLY that way?<BR>Miss you too!<P>AH<BR>I think we could probably arrange for everything except the golf course. We have a nun here who is a Grandma!<BR>But you and I would have to make sure it isn't one of those convents where they make the vow of silence. <P>Am I glad I vented???<BR>Missed you all!!!!