Hey Gang,<P>I was just wondering if you would consider it an affair as well if you are seperated from your S, the D is underway and the S is seeing/living with someone else?<P>What brings this question to mind is I saw on Bill's thread where he is going to go out on a date and awhile back I linked up with an XGF.<P>Not that I'm planning on going out soon again. I don't think I'm ready for that yet. My D is waiting for her two signatures and 30 days.<P>Just wondered what you guys thought. <P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Tim

hmmmmm<P>Is it affair? <P>In a black and white world, yes until the papers are signed and delivered.<P>But in my lovely gray world <BR>I would say no, *IF* the marriage in affect is over except for the paperwork....Is a relationship going to change that fact?<P>but then again you look at Bill where his W called the next day....hmmmm call me a cynic but the timing is incredible isn't it?.....so then you/he would have to decide "Is my marriage over?"<P>LOL well could I dance around that answer anymore than I have?<P>In summary I think it depends on each situation and I know I will be in the minority. The "wait til the papers are signed sealed and delived" opinions will probably rule. <P>But I think each case is decided in each persons heart..I think they know when the marriage is over and a paper is not going to change that.<P>Of course the moral high road says "wait til the papers are in hand"<P>Wellllllll...I think I need another diet coke.....to make my answers a bit more concise huh? <P>How are you doing Tim? Hear anymore from Val?<P>Hope you have a great weekend.<P>Cat

One persons opinion:<P>Think if the betrayer leaves, divorces S and lives with lover that continues to be an affair until they marry. If the betrayed dates after the S leaves that's not an affair - only an attempt to normalize their life.

Hi Tim:<P>No, it's not an affair if the marriage is over. It's not going to endear you to Val when she finds out you're dating tho. <P>Just checked my hotmail acc't & I found your emails. I haven't checked it in ages & ages (busy busy busy with my new baby & I'm sure you know how it is and all that). Been getting that survey thingy from all over the place and I have it on my "to do" list and will send you a copy when it's done. Don't hold your breath, might take a while. <P>Has your friend Michelle seen any good Bon Jovi movies lately? <P> <P>

Divorce is only allowed when adultery has taken place, is what the word does say. The only time divorce is recognized. Sooo, the world says until the papers are signed and delivered. Soo, I say(like it really matters IF, you know that your marriage is truly over- go for it. I wouldn't sleep with anyone just yet, because I see it as a rebound situation. but that is me tothink that way!<P>I would say, starting over, fresh and enjoying a night out is good for anyone. <P>Good Luck!<BR>mercy

Good question, I think that it all depends on the mindset of the people involved. If the marriage is over in all aspects except the legal matters, it is probably not an affair.<BR>Legaly speaking it all depends on the laws where you live. In some places, sex outside of marriage is not considered adultery or even infidelity, if the married couple is legally separated.<BR>Personally, I wouldn't call it an affair, if it started after the separation, but that's just my $0.02

Tim,<P>A very wise man told me that if the patient is dead, why wait around for the doctor to sign the death certificate. The death certificate only serves to make it legal but the patient is still legal.<P>In looking at it from another angle, I would not go out with someone that wasn't divorced. Afterall, isn't that lesson 27 from betrayers school. You tell op your marriage is over and all you are waiting for is the paperwork.<P>Bob<P><BR>p.s.<P>Pink bedroom will be gone today!<P>

Hey Cat,<P>Thanks for the response. Yuch, Diet Coke!<P>I haven't heard anything from Val since I received her note. Everytime I talk to her about us seriously she starts to cry. I don't mean to hurt her, I never wanted that. I WAS a piss poor H. I know that. I neglected her badly and am paying for it dearly now. If only she knew!<P>Hi LooksGood,<P>I keep going back and forth in my mind if I betrayed my W because I went to dinner, a movie and watched some videos with an XGF. I told her ahead of time that nothing was going to happen that I was still married and I loved my W. I know if I would have pushed we could have ended up in bed. <P>Karma!<P>No, it wasn't M. I was watching it with my EMT driver. M is seeing someone that IS available now. I do wish her well. I wasn't really ready and she also just got out of a long term relationship. Not a good combo.<P>I was wondering how you and baby were doing. Please let me know.<P>Hello Mercy,<P>Not ready to go out and conquer the world quite yet. I was just wondering what the opinion of the board was. I did go out with an XGF had a great time, nice dinner and the only thing I could think of was I should be here with Val. <P>Hey Sadman,<P>Reading some of the posts it seems that adultery in the law sense is just a word that carries no meaning in the D. I am looking at it personally. I was the betrayer in my first marriage. I am not proud of that. Now I know how Toni felt.<P>Hi Bob,<P>I never used lesson 27 in my betrayal. I hear ya Pal. Don't put it in the show room unless it's actually up for sale.<P>What color are you painting? <P>Thanks to all. Gads, this is so wierd. My XW [first one, Toni...Val will be the second one] asked if I knew of someone to replace her brakes cheap. I told her I would do it for her. She hasn't been a problem to me/us. She has actually helped get me back together with my sons. We had a very nice day. Not sure where I'm going with this. ARG!<P>Zippy

FYI...my STBX didn't call me the next day and my date stood me up oh well...lol<P>In NC if you are seperated it is not concidered adultry...<P>Me and God had a good chat and he promised me to put someone new in my life <P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

Tim,<BR> I guess it depends on where your morals and view of religious overtones stand.I seem to know a lot of people that are separated,but are seeing other people.I'm not even sure of what my concept of marriage is anymore.<BR> One thing I'd be careful of,is dating a separated,married woman.You don't know anything about her H.How many times have you read in the paper about an estranged H blowing away his W and her boyfriend?You don't want to be front page news. --Murph

uh oh<P>okay....<P>Harley definition: An affair is defined by your spouse. So, if Val feels you reconnecting with an Xgirlfriend while you were married yet separated is an affair, it is. <P>How does Val define it?<P>

I guess it depends where you want to "walk the walk" <P>I've wondered similar things when deciding how to teach my children the values I want them to hold dear.<P>When I walk down the streets of NYC and WANT a designer purse that I know is "hot" is it wrong if I buy it????? because I want it????at a cheap price?????? I think so. (I have bought one by the way!!!!!)<P>Now, I think that I have to resist buying the "hot" property just because I want it. Just the same, for me, I would have to be D. before I could become "close " to someone else. Probably not a helpful answer, but I wanted to answer anyway and say HI!!!!!!!

Just wanted to give my $0.02.<P>I don't care how bad the marriage is or how horrible the sp is.......wether your seperated or,living under the same roof.<BR>YOU ARE STILL MARRIED.<P>No matter if you have sex or not you are still going out on a "date".The intent is still the same.On a consious level you are "looking" for new compaionship.<P>I feel that until those papers are signed<BR>it is adutlry.<P>I guess I am a little "old fashiond".Oh well.<BR>

Marriage is more than a piece of paper. If you have been seperated for over a year and there has been no attempt to reconcile and your spouse is see/living with another person and there is impending divorce then you have no marriage in reality. In my opinion you have been rejected by Val and should not feel guilty for wanting to date and form a new relationship. To do otherwise is mentally unhealthy . Life is too short to continue living in limbo.

Hmm. Well, let's see. When I "cheated" on my ex, we were living in different states, and had been for 4 months. I guess I could tell people we were "separated" then, huh? I felt my marriage was over when my H couldn't support me for my education and yelled at me all the time. Does that count? <P>I guess whatever you can rationalize. <P>After my confession, and my ex moved out (which I did not want), he took another woman on a week long vacation and dated a few times during our so-called recovery attempt.<P>Ah, now I know why he put "irreconcilable differences" on the divorce papers instead of "adultery". <P>my opinion is...<BR>anyone who would date someone who is not officially divorced is desperate or a low-life bottom feeder. Go ahead and have FUN. I wouldn't even go out with a guy unless he was divorced at least a year. Nope, he'd have to try out his technique on someone else, thank you.<P>It seems pretty obvious that the guys (at least two on this board) can't wait to get out and start datin' and matin'!! The ink ain't even dry yet. Then again, I guess there are plenty of needy women who don't care about being the rebound chick.<P>I've been chatting with God too, and she says that I'd better figure out what went wrong with my marriage and myself before I even think about dating anyone. Not only for my benefit, but also because it is not fair to the other person either.<P>It would be a good exercise for lots of people to just handle being lonely for awhile. It wouldn't kill anyone to do that, and there are lots of other things you can do while you are getting your head together besides finding someone new to "shag".<p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited April 09, 2000).]

I guess we are each entitled to our own opinion aren't we. I'm glad that some of the people I have met here are good enough to share thier opinions. What is it they say about opinions???<P>Sorry for the inflamitory retort, however I feel that the implication is that some of "us" can't be alone, and need to reflect and get to know ourselves. For me I have spent the last 4 years doing just that. In fact I am very comfortable in my own skin and know myself quite well. Be that as it may I'm sure some will say how can that be? Let me tell you. I have spent hours upon hours working the 12 steps of recovery for my drug addiction, and you know what I did the same thing when my wife decided to get herself a better deal.<P>I also infered that some of "us" are looking for a, what was that trite word?, a "shag". I will readily admitt to the want/need to get my "ashes hauled", I like that trite phrase better, but that is <B>FAR</B> from my intentions or desires, neither is a relationship. Let me pose a question. Is it wrong to go to dinner or for a walk in the park with another woman before the "ink is dry" on my divorce papers. I think not. I will tell you this, I have a clear concience and if I choose to date and by chance get romanticly involved I will have a clear concience. My marriage is <B>over</B>. All that is left are the legal details, I know longer concider myself married and as far as I can tell neither does God as I understand him, and you know what else, my ex no longer does too.<P>The bottom line is we should be careful who we judge and how we judge them because we are all equally as guilty of sinning as the next. I find that the things I judge peole on are the very things I myself an guilty of.<P>I do love you <B>ALL</B> very much. Should I choose to date or whatever, it is my perogitive to do so. If God should put someone in life at this time who am I to argue.<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<P><BR>[This message has been edited by WilliamJ (edited April 09, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by WilliamJ (edited April 09, 2000).]

Hey Bill,<P>I'm sorry, I think, about you getting stood up by your date. I'm still unsure. The jury is still out. <P>Even more sorry for you pretty much calling it quits with R.<P>I don't care what NC calls adultery. What do you think?<P><BR>Hello Murphy,<P>Scarey thought isn't it? You read of it almost everyday. I was going to get a gun before I found out about the affair. I don't believe I am in the right mindset now. I'll pass.<P>TNT!,<P>Val still does not consider her seeing her friend an affair. I guess that means I am safe.<P>Hi Back Tootrusting,<P>Now I'll have to call the cyber police. I'm not close either. Just needed some female companionship. Things were too raw for us both. Nothing was going to happen. It didn't.<P>Hey WGUPH,<P>Nothing wrong with being old fashioned. I asked how you guys feel. Thanks for an honest response.<P>Yo Max,<P>Yeah, some of the things that go thru my mind I wouldn't want to verbalize. <P>Well TS,<P>Caution...Your post hit below the belt.<P>Yep, I see that we are still mad at the entire male population. I have been physically seperated from my W for 13 months and emotionally for far longer. I tried, she was unavailable as she was/is involved in an affair.<P>Yes, I will readily admit that I was piss poor H the last few years. I had an EMA with the business. I was looking into our future and failed to see the present. I had a very nice chat with Sam tonite. And no that was not a date either.<P>It may be obvious to you, but, let me clue you in re the "dating and mating" comment. I take GREAT offense to that! I mearly posed a question and got many honest responses without the need for personal attack.<P>Did I go out on a date? Let's see, I picked her up at her house and dropped her off. We went to dinner, a movie, watched TV here with my 18 year old son in attendance. Sounds almost date like. I'll agree.<P>I never kissed her, had thoughts of getting her into bed, and yes I know I could have. She is very attractive, natural blonde hair, blue eyed and tall. Believe me it could have picked up where it left off. That is not what I wanted. What I wanted and needed was female companionship. All she wanted was male companionship. Sounds like two friends [people] going out for a nice night out. She met someone who is available and I am happy for her. <P>I would like nothing better than to get back together with my W that I still love, fix the relationship and as you put it only "shag" her. Maybe I am not like any man you have ever met. I don't think with Stanley. I have no desire for sex with anyone other than my Val. My heart and mind only yearn for one woman, can you guess whom that might be?<P>I'm sorry if I offended you with the question. That is all it was, a question to see what the feeling was/is on the board. I do not post here to get permission to do anything. I was interested in opinions. Maybe somehow that was misinterpreted.<P>Nice making sport of Bill. I'll defend him on that one as well. You have no idea what he has gone through. We have had many chats as well and he is a great guy, do you consider that a date too?<P>I am truly sorry to any members that took this as a quirey to justify my behavior. That was not the purpose.<P>I am also sorry for what I know to be my first reply/post in an angry manner. This just hit me in a very wrong place.<P>I am not a low life bottom feeder either.<P>I do appreciate your response and appologize in advance for my comments.

Hey Medic238,<P>You Go!!!!!!!! <P>Couldn't have said it better!!! <P> Gina [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]<P>

Thanks Zippy<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

Oops!<BR> Sorry WilliamJ, my comment about the phone call the next day was referring to SimplyJ's post. <P>See, I hadn't had enough diet coke yet! <P>Cat