This came up on Truthseeker's thread and rather than stomp all over it, I started a new one This was from my lovely wife, Cat, and I already checked to see if it would be a LB to post this. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR><B> I read on another post how a betrayer is selfish for putting their needs first and betraying....Well what is a betrayed spouse doing by wanting the betrayer to stay in the marriage?<P>Are they not just as selfish as the betrayer? They want to be happy, they want the wandering spouse to return. But is that not putting thier needs/wants above thier spouses?<P>just another one of those "hmmmm" questions that I have been wondering about.</B> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I said, Yes, I am selfish for wanting to be happy and wanting her to return to me, but the big difference I saw between us was choice. <P>I can't make her come back or force her to love me, but given enough time,(yes TS there's that dreaded time reference again ), patience and love, I can only hope that her needs and my needs become compatible, maybe for the first time in our lives.<P>Any other opinions on this?<BR><P>------------------<BR>Allen<BR>sparky_dog_mb@yahoo.com

When you got married, you promised each other to be true, for better or worse...<P>So it's not selfishness, by definition. You're fighting for your marriage, because it's what you promised to do. You didn't promise "to let them go if they're happier with someone else".<P>However, if you are "fighting" for your marriage and expect the wayward spouse to come back to the old marriage and then "make it up to you", you are being selfish (and unrealistic, and setting yourself up for disaster).<P>When I was fighting for my marriage, was I fulfilling one of my needs?? Sure. But there's no way I could have filled my wife's "needs" to have an affair through the use of the POJA. So as a "poor" substitute, I worked very hard at trying to make the marriage a better place for her to be. Of course it didn't make my wife happy in the short term(it caused CONFLICT, which is terrible for someone in an affair), but it's been very good, in the longer run.<P>One other comment, Sparky. Your wife's needs and your needs don't need to be "compatible" with each other. You just need to both figure out ways to meet each other's needs in a manner that you both can be enthusiastic about. These needs can be complete opposites (and often are)---that's OK.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>You just need to both figure out ways to meet each other's needs in a manner that you both can be enthusiastic about. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It's that enthusiastic part that's tough. What if enthusiasm just isn't a part of your spouse's personality?

I am the one who had the affair. And now that my eyes are cleared of the fog I can see!!!<P>I was wrong to go to another to have my needs filled...period!<P>But there is absolutely nothing wrong with the betrayed wanting to hold the marriage together. We, as the betrayers, should be greatful that our spouses are willing to give us a chance to make amends and do what is right....which is to live up to our marriage vows....through good times and bad. They are trying to do it...are we not also obligated, by way of our wedding vows, to do the same? Indeed we are! Or we should have never repeated those words before exchanging the rings.<P>The whole quote in itself tells me that the fog is still hovering over cats eyes. I know....I've been on her side of the fence. I'm so glad I decided to hop back across.<P>If we are blessed with being given another chance, we...as a couple...should do everything in our power to take that chance to build a better marriage that no man (or woman) can put asunder!!! Sometimes that man or woman is the person we see in the mirror every morning.

TS:<P>If enthusiasm isn't part of your spouse's vocabulary, substitute "agreement without sacrifice". In other words, he should feel either neutral (at worse) or positive about whatever solution you're going with.

I too have had to deal with my own "selfishness" (according to H) by wanting him to stay and work on the marriage. But I think there comes a time where you just have to let go. I found by holding tighter he was slipping further away. Now that I have "let go" we are getting along better. We are still headed for divorce at this point. But I am hoping that someday he will look back and see the person I have been through all this and it will mean something to him. Yes, he is still clouded by the fog of the affair. His OW will probably be living near us within the year (if they don't go ahead and get married). But she will find that being a twice divorced, 35 year first time mother to 3 kids isn't going to be easy. Not to mention, she's going to have the lion's share of their expenses (hers & H's) because of child support & alimony. I am interested to see what happens when reality hits.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

Hmmmm!! Selfish to love your partner enough to let them continually hurt you by LB'ing in the worst possible way (the affair and all the nasty justification language that goes with it), spending their time with another instead of you, meeting needs of the OP that you'd like met in yourself while holding on to the vision of a better marriage, remembering how you both once could meet each other's needs, and learning everything you can to see that vision come to fruition?<P>Selfishness? Sainthood! (LOL) <BR>

Dearest Friend: My spouse fought for me when I was trying to leave because he loved me. Now that I have realized how much I really loved him, I have lost his trust. I am fighting like hell for him. It was a painful lesson for us to learn. Don't give up!