I have been lurking for a little bit, and I would like to tap into the wealth of positive thinking and hopefulness and knowledge here.<P>The story: H and I met in college, fit in every way possible, lived together after graduation, married a few years later. Total years together is almost 8, married for the past 3 of them. 2 years ago, we had a baby boy (Jointly decided upon), moved into a new house, I left my teaching position to become a stay-at-home mom, and he began a new job. This all happened in a 4 day period! Very stressful. <P>H's new job was/is 10 hour days, 6 days a week. Our baby was colicky and sick with 18 ear infections in his first 17 months. (He is better with it now) H and I began to grow distant; he was tired all the time, hardly did a thing with the baby and even less for our household. I took over the entire household management. Things between us grew very angry and cold. <P>This January, he had an affair with a woman whom he works with. H is a supervisor in an assembly plant; she works on the line. He is 29, she is 40 with 2 grown sons and a 4 year old. She has been married twice, divorced once, and has been separated from H #2 for 2 years. She is a rough woman from a rough family. <P>Currently, H is living with her. He moved in with her Feb. 14th. They live in a dive of a house in a trashy neighborhood. H came to a few counseling sessions, then stopped coming. The counselor, whom I continue to see, diagnosed him with chronic severe depression. H refuses to take the anti-depressants. He also hardly sees our 2 year old son. He doesn't show for visits, doesn't call, very sporadic with contact. <P>He bought a used corvette last month, has been going to the tanning salon, and sports a new leather jacket. He has lost a great deal of weight. 3 weeks ago he was rushed to the ER with chest pains in what turned out to be an anxiety attack.<P>Initially, he vacillated with "I don't know what I want" and "I feel like I want a divorce" (Exact words) <P>I have tried Plan A, but i end up begging him to come home at the first sign of niceness on his part. As soon as I feel hopeful at all, I lose it. <P>Today I went to his work to drop off cash for him-- he has left our finances intact and I give him $ each week in this manner. In his car I found information from a lawyer's consultation that he went to on 4/7. I was devastated. I called him at work and he told me that he did it more for OW who is not divorced yet. I asked if he and she were planning on getting divorces so that they can marry. He said "NO way. Never." I asked him if he was trying to ambush me, and he said he does not want to hurt me that way. I asked him if he wants to proceed with the paper work or should we just sit on it for now, and he said he doesn't know what to do but he is not planning on filing anything. That it is too expensive. He will not directly answer the question when I ask him if he has doubts about this. He won't say no but he won't say yes. He changes the topic. I should also add that what I found in his car was a receipt for the consultation fee, attorney business card, and the appointment time and location written on a torn piece of paper in her writing. In other words, she clearly scheduled the appt. for him. <P>In my heart, I still love him and want us to be a family again. But I am afraid that it won't happen, and that waiting will put me in a poor position financially. I would like to refine my Plan A and maybe try writing letters to him which I could leave in his car. Talking to him is very difficult for me. <P>Does it sound hopeful to you all? Should i wait and try my letter campaign? Why won't he see our baby? What are the odds that we will reconcile? I know from reading that they are high, but it feels so improbable.<P>Kim<P>------------------<BR><p>[This message has been edited by onceloved (edited April 11, 2000).]

Kim,<P>You came to the right place. My first suggestion would be to read. Get the books "Surviving An Affair" & "Divorce Busting". Both are very good and will help you see why this is happening and give you some very good advice. Hang in there. I know it's tough right now, but it does ease up some. If he has moved out and is living with the OW, you might want to try Plan B.<P><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

Welcome <B>onceloved</B>...<P>I have a post of general welcome I wish to share with you... <P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A>...<P>From your "topic"... you may have seen/read these... <BR>But it here for your reference...<P>Doing a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> isn't easy... anytime the WS is not living at home...<P>From the "book"... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Plan A: Avoid <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3401_angry.html" TARGET=_blank>angry outbursts</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3402_disrespect.html" TARGET=_blank>disrespectful judgments</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3404_selfish.html" TARGET=_blank>selfish demands</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3403_annoy.html" TARGET=_blank>annoying behavior</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3405_dishonesty.html" TARGET=_blank>dishonesty</A> (i.e. <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>!) at all costs. (page 75 of SAA)...<B>and</B> at the same time, if your spouse would let the you, you should try to meet your spouse's most important <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>. (page 77 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>While your H isn't at home... the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A> are easy to keep to a minimum...<P>But... meeting <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A> is that much harder...<P>I'd suggest <B>not</B> minimizing the contact with your H... but increasing it as much as possible... The notes in the car discourage contact... although I can understand your problem with face to face contact.<P>I read you're in counseling...<BR>...have you considered MB <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7200_phone.html" TARGET=_blank>telephone counseling sessions</A> ($85US a pop... but well worth it) with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7010_about.html" TARGET=_blank>Steven W. Harley</A> or Jennifer Harley. Check out the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>Counseling Center</A>... and for some specifics... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7015_fee.html" TARGET=_blank>Fees for Counseling Services</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7020_sched.html" TARGET=_blank>Scheduling an Appointment</A>! They can give you the <B>profesional</B> view in MB terms... <P>Keep posting... <P>Jim

{{{Kim}}}<P>I seem to tell everyone the same thing, but it's true: hang on--this will take time.<P>You have already read enough to know that H is living in a dream world right now. You say he's 29--I'm betting that some of his depression comes from some type of 30 crisis. It's not fair that he is taking it out on you, too, but if it's any consolation he probably doesn't realize that he is right now.<P>So where does that leave you? I would see a lawyer just to make sure that my bases were covered, but I wouldn't pursue any of the proceedings. Just protect yourself.<P>Read as much as you can on the subject. Lots of good resources here, though it's easy to get overwelmed at first.<P>I would be careful about putting too many letters on his car. In his world that might be too much pressure and it might keep him away. What would happen if you didn't go to his work to drop off cash for him? Might he come by, or are you afraid he might empty the bank accounts? If it's the former, try to get him to come see you and your son.<P>I don't know for sure why he doesn't come to see your (both of your!) son. Don't despair. That doesn't mean your H doesn't love your son, just that he's having a tough time right now.<P>Best wishes to you. It's going to be hard for a while, but you will be able to get through it. --HBC

You can do this.<P>In a nutshell, my wonderful H fell "in love" with someone at work and left us to move in with her during a very stressful time in our lives. She, too, is a bit on the rough side.<P>"Our marriage is lousy, I've never been happy, I want a divorce - I think" , ad nauseum.<P>I didn't know where he WAS for weeks on end. I learned all I could about a real Plan A and implemented it the best I could w/ our limited (and I mean VERY limited contact). Eventually starting sending letters to his mom's each week, Pop would get them to him. Funny, light-hearted, news from daughter and home kinda letters, ending with "I love you". Nothing heavy. Never discussed us, marriage, them (ok one bad weekend of lb letters, but nobody's perfect!). When he DID visit (very seldom), put my best face forward. Had a meal ready, sometimes he ate, sometimes not. Laughed, joked, made it warm and comfortable. Still no discussion about us.<P>Now, to keep from boring all the other "oldies" around her who LIVED through those 7 months with me, you can usually find me on the recovery board these days! Robert's home, by his own choosing, and we're doing just great. <P>So, don't give up hope, Plan A and make yourself strong and the best you that you can be! No matter what happens, you'll benefit. And I tell you what, you'll never know what might happen! <P>Hang in there.<P>Lori<P>

Hi Onceloved -<P>Welcome to MB.<P>I see that you are getting excellant advice and can't really expand on that part - definitely keep reading whatever you find around here. And I was so happy to see Lostva has found you - when I read your post I knew that her experience would be of such benefit to you...follow it!!!<P>I can give some hope and positive thinking boosts, though!!!!<P>You know where this came from - right? You know that life at home and the hours at work just overwhelmed him....and you, too, I am sure!!<P>While he is going through this - use the time to your advantage. Get a good idea of how you want your life to be like and what you need to do to make it that way.<P>Perhaps something can be done about less hours for him and a little part time job for you in the future when he comes home. This would allow him some "off work" time as well as time with your son and would also allow you some "out of the house" time.<P>It's just one idea and we will all - I am sure - come up with a lot more. The most important thing is to realize that he is not doing this to you....but more FOR HIMSELF. Don't let this bring down your self esteem....it is life's little hardships that have led you both here and it will take you both working on priorities and communication to get out of it.<P>This is very doable!!!!!<P>I am so glad that you have found MB - now take some deep breaths and breathe a big sigh of relief that you are not alone!!!! Ahhhhh, feels better - doesn't it!!!<P>You will make it through this, we will help you. <P>Two things to remember - time and patience!!!!<P>OK, well - three ...... some work!!!!<P>BIG HUGS, <P><BR>Sheba

Where have I heard this story before?<P>My husband left two months after the birth of our second child, four months after moving into our dream home, one year after buying an expensive convertible, and one and a half years after I scored a financial windfall. I heard all the same "I'm confused" stuff and the biggest symptom of all COMPLETE INDECISIVENESS. He went for five consecutive months without seeing our newborn, barely saw our seven year-old for months on end, and gained 50 pounds (from a normal starting weight) in five months. He answered everyone's questions with "I don't know" about 90% of the time (and that was when anyone could get him to talk at all). He is the big boss and got involved with a line supervisor at the plant, older than him and uneducated (he has a master's degree and is a VP). Does this sound familiar?<P>The others have given you good advice. I have specific comments to you. This is hard, but listen carefully and try to benefit from our experience.<P>1. This has NOTHING to do with you at all. Don't spend any time blaming yourself for what you might have done in the marriage. We all do this and all it does is cause additional aggravation. What you did is NOT the reason he had an affair, got depressed, and abandoned his son. You are responsible for whatever you did that negatively impacted the marriage and need to fix it, but that's not the central issue here.<P>2. There is something very wrong with your husband. You didn't cause it and you can't fix it, but you can make improvements to yourself. If he chooses to seek you out for help, be supportive. But it's much more likely that he's just going to avoid. Don't even bother trying to get him to talk at this point. He'll run like the wind.<P>3. This moves in SLOOOOOOOOOW motion. I'm 19 months into my separation and FINALLY am seeing an involved father. I've had to work my tail off to make that happen. He's still not talking openly to me and presumably still cheating, but at least he can be friendly, considerate and helpful again. I can talk to him about any topic so long as it's not about us or the OW. He even went with me to our son's parent-teacher conference last week.<P>4. The hardest lesson of all - very little that you do makes a difference while the affair is active. I HATE this one. You can be as sweet as pie, give, give, give and nothing happens. But, you can do tremendous damage by lovebusting. So my advice is not to lovebust but don't kill yourself doing Plan A either. In Harley parlance, it's likely your lovebank account is temporarily closed to deposits. One relatively sweet and pressure-free thing you can do, however, is send a periodic simple but thoughtful card that reassures him that you care. You WON'T get a response (and probably not even an ackknowledgment), but there's a cumulative effect to this for later on.<P>5. The bottom line is that it's mostly a waiting game. You can't help someone that won't help himself and you can't really make a difference on the marriage until the affair is over. SO LIVE YOUR LIFE FOR YOU AND YOUR SON. Do all the things you always wanted to do. And think about what you would do with your life if you KNEW your husband was coming back but it wasn't going to happen for two years. Try to do those things.<P>If you're in the mood for reading, there are some fascinating stories back-dated here. Check out SDS whose husband completely disappeared with OW and is now coming back. Look at Woozy's story or lostva. There are successes here, but they are not quick and not easily won. Maintaining your emotional strength is a critical aspect of this. My opinion is it's much easier to remain strong and hang-in for the long haul when your contact is not too frequent. There are differing opinions on this point.<P>I wish you the best of luck. Keep us posted on what happens.<P>

Thanks all.<P>I have read His Needs/Her Needs, Surviving An Affair, and LoveBusters. <P>I know that time and history and the odds are on the side of the marriage. It sure feels unlikely though, doesn't it?<P>I made it through to Dr. Harley's show today. He recommended I go to Plan B in order to prevent my total loss of love for my H; otherwise, when he does attempt reconciliation, I won't want it. <P>I would like to attempt the letters for a few weeks though. My plan A was never really followed. I was thinking of light, news from home letters like Lotsva used. I was thinking of a month of letters, one or two a week. No discussion of us in them. Then Plan B full force. What do you all think?<P>Also, i have found that when i can keep a "This will all be all right one day, whatever that is. I don't know all the lessons in it for me, or what the outcome will be, but this will be a pivotal time in my life and I will come out on the other side of it." Then I am able to do all right. To just let it unfold as it goes, to respond to the immediate decision needed, and not project into the future. *sigh*

Hi, I'm back. Follow your own instincts, seriously considering the advice of the counsellors and the other wise and wonderful people here.<P>I'm not a Plan B fan. Not wired for it, can't do it, know better than to even try it. And I caution, Plan B, like a real Plan A, is for YOU! To protect yourself from losing love units and, sorry about this guys, to wean you from contact w/ your h. It is NOT a plan to "get him back." Sometimes it does, but like Plan A, sometimes it doesn't.<P>I never set dates or deadlines - that's not my style either. (Remember, although this ride has very universal symptons and affects, it's also VERY individual!) I did what you're talking about....every day, I asked myself if I still loved my h and wanted my marriage. And every day, my answer was a resounding "yes"! Once the "no's" started coming, it all may have been very different.<P>Another note: I sent one letter a week for 6 MONTHS!!!! He never acknowledged a single one. Nothing. Period. UNTIL about 3 weeks b/f he asked to come home, the phone contacts had increased dramatically and, while we were laughing on the phone about something our daughter had done (we never talked about us), he said "Oh, btw, thanks for all the cards and letters, they were really sweet." AFTER SIX MONTHS OF NOTHING!!! And he had kept every single one!<P>So, do what you feel is right and don't get discouraged (easy to say, huh?). <P>Hang in there,<P>Lori