You can leave your family and still have almost everything. You can see your kids as often as you want (not nearly as often as I would want, but no one who leaves his family has the kids as his/her first priority), you can still have legal joint custody, but don't have to have any day to day responsibility; you have to pay child support, but at least it is predictable - if Johnny suddenly grows 4 inches and 2 shoe sizes, needs glasses and his dog needs surgery - well, that is not your problem any longer. You get to spend time individually with your kids if you want, without having to get a babysitter. You can go on vacation whenever you want, without having to worry about the kids or the pets. Basically you end up with a lot of control over your kids' lives and little responsibility. And if not seeing them every day isn't a problem for you, there is no downside to this situation.

And I'll take it a step further...<P>...if you're my W... you'll pay 1/4 in child custody relative to alimony she could get...<P>...and no responsibility for kids college education...<P>Life must be pretty great for her...<P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited April 15, 2000).]

Nellie, I hear you. It is truly unfair. I am doing it all for the kids as well and I only have 3. I can imagine what it is like with 6. What are you kids ages?????<P>We are still in limbo here. It seems like my H is coming down from his "high", but he seems to like to do what he wants to do. Great huh???<P>All I know is I'm going to do more of what I want to do. One of those things is to find a job that I would like. My H was very instrumental in my not working....<P>There was always something...his changeing schedule...his changing job....worrying about my salary being eaten up in taxes and WHO would then take care of the kids and house and all the details if I worked???<P>Now, of course, I'm THe great mom, but he wants to go on and learn and travel. Great again.<P>I guess it's what I get for trusting and believing in someone so much huh???<P>It's a hard pill to swallow, but I guess that is what people mean by changing yourself for the better. It's what I have been trying to do. Which is hard I know when you have small children to deal with.<P>I can't remember if you have family or support. I do not have any family. His family is my support but they live very far away. I have friends, but they are all involved with their families, kind of like we were prior to the "possession".<P>I'm pretty good at starting from scratch though. I know I can do it. I've done it before.

The down side is she will never have a good relationship with those kids. It may not have an effect on her now, but give it a few years. It will effect those kids the rest of their lives. She will pay heavily when she decides to grow up and regret what she did. <P>Betrayers are the most selfish people around at times <P>Mercy

Nellie1-<P>I disagree - you can't leave your family and still have almost everything. My parents divorced when I was 12. Even before that time my mother was mother and father to the three kids. I'm 21 now, and I give her presents on both Mother's and Father's Day. My 24 year old sister does the same. Our little brother is 15 and makes her cards for both days... in short, she has the love and respect of her children, something our father didn't have and will never be able to earn... he died of cancer three and a half years ago, alone.

It does seem that they get to have it all at the moment. Exactly what they wanted in the first place in terms of the "responsibility for the children" as you so clearly describe Nellie.<P>They also have children who behave politely, calmly and usually never show their feelings and emotions honestly. For me this is an insincere realtionship and superficial, but that is between themselves and the children.<BR>All relationships need a lot of work, and since they often have not worked at the marriage one, they do not have the same interest in working to build an honest and open relationship with their children.<BR>While they certainly have the easier time at the moment, would anyone here want to trade places with their stbx spouses life?<P>I guess then I also have to accept my H's idea for the marriage breakdown in that we now have different values. Family is not important often as they do not want to confront the mess they "left" in their wake.

Jim,<P>I suppose I should be grateful that my H won't qualify for alimony, since his salary is 4-5 times mine. Why should someone who chooses to leave a marriage get alimony at all, unless they were being physically abused?<P>tootrusting,<P>My kids are 4-19. One of my H's complaints after he left was that I hadn't gone back to work after the last one - of course he never bothered to mention to me while he was here that he wanted me to, and had said more than once that he didn't really want the kids in daycare. <P>I have gone back to work part-time, and it is very hard with this many kids. I don't have much family - my parents died twenty years ago, and my only sibling lives in Europe. <P>mercy,<P>My H doesn't seem to care that he has no relationship with the older two. The younger ones desparately want to spend time with him.<P>younglove,<P>I don't know if the youngest 4 respect him or not, but they love him, and I have certainly tried to encourage them to have a relationship with him. Unfortunately, he apparently prefers that that relationship be only superficial.<P>I overheard our ten year old saying something that implied she was angry with him. When I asked her about it, she admitted that she probably wouldn't let me know if she was angry with him, because she thought I didn't want her to be, since "I liked him so much". He had better never accuse me of trying to turn the kids against him - because if I am, I am certainly doing a rotten job of it.<P>willbok,<P>Although I am sure our kids are not always polite and calm, I think they do their best to hide their emotions from him. Our son has told me on several occasions that he doesn't think his father wants to know how he feels.<P>The other day he said that his father had actually seemed interested in something that our son was talking about - apparently this is unusual. I had noticed that my H often acted as if whatever I had to say was unimportant and uninteresting, especially during the months before he left, but apparently he treats the kids the same way now. He is just totally wrapped up in himself.

Nellie,<BR> I am not really sure if there is a "big" downside to leaving your family. Like today....it is beautiful here in Indiana....stbx is probably out golfing....tooling around in my anniversary present (Mustang Convertible) with the top down. Having a few beers.....laughing with his "friend". I just got through fixing dinner and cleaning up. Of course that was after breaking up the fights the girls got into today.....taking them to their counseling appointment....listening to them cry about their dad, one more time.....picking up the trail of clothing left after their 3rd change of clothes.....cleaning up the water and mud mess trailing from the garage to our front porch....taking them to get ice cream.....<P>But you know what....I really enjoy it, he doesn't. The chaos brings me back to my childhood days...playing outside in the summer...not having a care in the world.<P>I am so thankful to be able to share these days with them...not knowing how many I have left.<P>It took months for me to see the light...but I am so very happy.<P>Our hearing is scheduled for August 15th and 16th. I am so thankful that I may have until then to spend so much time with them.<P>After that I may be the one sitting alone....thinking day and night about my girls. I dread that day coming, but I won't let it spoil the time I have left. Then I get to take the fond memories with me...knowing they respect and love me.<P>He can have everything....and I mean everything...but it will never give him the pure joy that love and respect give.<P>Keep your chin up.....I know how hard it must be. With so many children....and so much responsibility. But those children see it....they know...and so do we. You are a great mom.<P>I agree with what was said earlier. They don't realize the expense in raising children. They pay child support.....but that doesn't always cut it. The extras...school stuff....field trips....activities....our one daughter has gained about 15 pounds since all of this happened. I am buying new clothes about every 2 months for her. It is hard...but somehow we do it......we are truly the heros here...<BR>Nancy

Is there a downside to leaving spouse? Yes, there are many:<P>1. The children get hurt. No matter what you think, no matter how hard you try to comfort them, the children always hurt. They will survive, but they never get over the pain.<P>2. The children learn to give up on life's challenges, that it's easier to walk away than to stay and work it out. This increases the chances that when they are adults they too will divorce.<P>3. If you don't work out your problem's in the first marriage, they are almost guaranteed to return in the 2nd marriage. First marriages have a 35% divorce rate, while subsequent marriages have a 66% divorce rate.<P>4. Loneliness and bitterness. Single life is a lot different when you're in your 40's or 50's, than it was in your early 20's.<P>5. Lower standard of living, for at least one of the ex-spouses. Two households cost more than 1.<P>6. Increased medical problems. Increased need for prescription drugs and psychotherapy.<P>7. Shorter life expectancy if single.<P>For a detailed account of the downside of divorce read "The Case Against Divorce" by Diane Medved. Anyone considering divorce as a "solution" to their problems is in serious need of a reality check.<P>

Nancy,<P>I am glad you are able to find joy still. I am very grateful for my children. <P>Oftentimes I wish I could be like him - free of guilt, convinced that he "can't help his emotions" and therefore he has no control over his actions, happy to act more like an uncle (and not a particularly generous one, at that) than a father while convincing himself that he is being a responsible father by trying to make major decisions for them when he barely knows them anymore.<P>Kenneth, <P>I certainly agree that divorce is devastating for everyone involved - except the betraying spouse. He isn't alone, he doesn't have to worry about how the children are dealing with this because they are afraid to tell him, and he ends up with a higher standard of living by living with the OW. I don't think there is any downside for him.

Nellie,<BR>You are very right.....the girls are so scared to tell their dad their feelings. They have tried...early on, to express them to him....but he always had an answer...blaming mom.<P>It is pitiful to watch your "babies" be so sad.....so scared, and not being able to give them the one thing they want so bad....something that won't cost a dime...their family back, together, under the same roof.<P>Nancy

Nellie,<P>There is a downside for the betraying spouse:<BR>because of his/her denial they don't confront their personal issues and they end up repeating the same mistakes in the next relationship. They go from one unhappy relationship to the next, with periods of loneliness, guilt and denial in between. Not a happy life for anyone.<P>

Nancy,<P>My kids have come right out and said that they are afraid their father will stop loving them if they make him angry. And there is no way they are going to believe any different when he gives the daughter who won't talk to him a Christmas card that says, "I have another gift that I will give you when you ask for it" while the card to her sister, who was talking to him (a little) said, "I have another gift that I will give you when I see you next". He walks in the house to pick up the other kids and typically completely and totally ignores both of the older girls when they are here. He hasn't even asked about how the one who won't speak to him is doing in many months. The lesson here: you let your father know you are unhappy about what he is doing and he stops loving you. <P>Kenneth,<P>Or they can just go from one relationship to the next, skipping the loneliness in between. As soon as you are dissatisfied with one, you just go look in the personal ads until you find something "better", and then one night you don't come home from work and move in with the new OW. <p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited April 17, 2000).]

Nellie,<BR>The girls were very up front with him in the beginning.....wanted him to hear their feelings and he blew them off. Quit calling and started blaming everyone else.....but mostly me. He could not and I'm not sure he ever will, take any blame for his girls unhappiness and dislike towards him. It is far easier to blame someone else. <P>My stbx just threatens to take back gifts and stuff if they don't act the way he tells them to. He doesn't understand...it is not the gifts they want...they want him to be nice to them...treat them like daughters...someone he loves.<P>Nancy

I have the opposite probelm nancy... my daughter, (only one) is almost 13.. and at those vulnerable yrs, an those teen attitude yrs, that she blames me that he left, and he buys her love, and gives her everything she asks for.. even when he finds out she has been doing me wrong or something happens in school, and she acted up.. she still is getting, "well thats ok.." and comes home with a bag full of goodies.. she is playing him so well... and now he is playing her too.. to get back at me.. (this is my theary) we do not talk, what so ever and havn`t for a yr now.. <P>I didn`t mean to take away from your thread, and make this all about me.. I was just pointing out, that most break ups go through bad times.. and hopfully one day any one having the hardest time, will come around and see things for what is was, is and always will be.. when they are adult enough to think it through, or rationalize..<P>These poor kids are going through such h__! and there is really nothing we can do about it, but let it takes it`s course.. and be there for them to hold hug and have a shoulder to lean on.. lord knows.. the shoulder they miss, is not worried (enough) about it.. so we are the back bone, they need..<P>you take care.. and sooner or later, these betrayers, are going to realize that they missed a whole lot of loving going on, in our house hold!!!! let them have what they think they want.. they will learn the hard way, and then again, some may never learn..<P>take care Nancy... and remember, we are the stronger speicies!!!! so don`t let him get to you... <P>Av