Ok, I have searched all over this place, found lots of helpful ideas, but I am still feeling alone. So I ask "How far is too far?"<BR>I agree that a cyber-relationship is the same as cheating. Which leads me into this topic...does one have to have sex to cheat? I mean..H gets caught in the act of trying to "get some". Has he cheated?<BR>Please be patient with me. I need help, but not real comfortable divulging details yet. I have spent too many years keeping in, I guess this is my "Coming Out".<P>------------------<BR>Love & Light,<BR>Pep1024

Welcome <B>Pep1024</B>...<P>I have a post of general welcome I wish to share with you... <P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A><P>A while ago... the "main" forum was divided into 4 separate "sub" forums... and a new one added...<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/marriage/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Just+found+out...&number=29&DaysPrune=10&LastLogin=" TARGET=_blank>Just found out...</A>...for those new the forum... pre/post "discovery" of an affair or possible affair.<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/marriage/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Plan+A/Plan+B&number=30&DaysPrune=10&LastLogin=" TARGET=_blank>Plan A/Plan B</A>...usually after "discovery of the affair"...for those with questions of "what to do now?"<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/marriage/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=In+recovery&number=31&DaysPrune=10&LastLogin=" TARGET=_blank>In recovery</A>...when a commitment to work on marriage by both spouses has begun.<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/marriage/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number=34&SUBMIT=Go" TARGET=_blank>Divorcing/Divorced</A>...when efforts at reconciliation fail or are failing.<BR>We are being asked to post the forums that make the most sense with respect to our questions/vents and not just dump everything into the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/marriage/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=General+Questions&number=28&DaysPrune=10&LastLogin=" TARGET=_blank>General Questions</A> forum because it will give you the most responses! <P><B>About your post</B>...<BR>(I'll also respond to your other one)<P>"...does one have to have sex to cheat?"...<BR><B>absolutely NOT</B>...<BR>You will find the for most people... the physical aspect, while very painful, really suffer from the emotional betrayal more! It is this emotional betrayal that really grates at your spirit and soul...<P><B>You are not alone</B>....<BR>Talking with people here will relieve your distress... You don't have to open the flood gates if you can't... but...<P>Keep posting... keep asking... keep reading!<P> <P>Jim

Welcome,<P>There does not have to be sex to have cheating. There are all kind of complicated and more scientific definitions of infidelity. To me, cheating has occurred when one spouse has done anything they do not want their partner to see or know about. That might be intimate conversation or touch. Those things usually lead to physical affairs anyway.<P>You have found a good place for advice and support. Stay with us until you feel comfortable sharing with us. We will be here (unfortunately!).<P>Best wishes,<P>Peppermint

I had an EA and at first I didn't regard it as cheating at all. It started out as email, but soon gravitated to phone calls. I never met the person, so I told myself it was just typing, but I knew deep down what I was doing was wrong. My emotions got involved and by then I was in way over my head. So how far is too far? I don't think there is anything wrong with writing to someone if you can share those letters with your spouse. In my case, within two weeks the tone of the email was not something I wanted to share with anyone. In my heart I was cheating...I wanted to be with the OM more than anything. Telling someone other than your spouse that you love them is going too far. I went too far and am now paying the consequences for my actions. I hope this helps. I know when discovery was first made, I made light of the whole situation. My H was the one that pointed out that I had fallen in love with OP. I still can't believe that I did something like that and how easy it was to become addicted to someone I never met face to face.<BR>

Lonely,<BR>Your response has hit home.<BR>After H got caught "almost in the act", he vowed (that word again) that it would never happen again. Well anyway, he discoved adult chat sites. At first, I believed that it was just him being flirtatious. Wait!!! NEWS FLASH!!!!!DUH me, he was doing this before he got caught, oh my! I have been turning a blind eye for years!! Now what, he has never stopped cheating on me! Tells me that what he types doesnt mean anything, but he quickly closes the chat window when I get up in middle of the night. Tries to act like he want doing anything. I even printed some of his logs, where he had set up a date. Told the OW all about his work, his vehicle, time place etc. And this SOB has the audacity to accuse ME of cheating with his best friend. Oh please forgive my raving. I have read and read, and tried to find the answers, but things keet getting thrown back at me. He keeps telling me that I am HIS WORLD, I am perfect. Yeah, perfect! I let him play!!<BR>I am wondering, do cheaters keep doing it over and over again for the thrill of posibly getting caught?<BR><P>------------------<BR>Love & Light,<BR>Pep1024

Pep...I can't answer for your husband...especially if he is a frequent visitor of adult chat rooms. He may have an internet addiction with those chat rooms. I am not or was not a fan of chat rooms. It is true that I met the OM online in a "married" chat room, but it was only the second time I had ever gone in one. I was sitting there laughing at the pick up lines people were using. After that second time on line, the OM and I communicated through email, about a month later he started calling me every day. I never went back online, I don't know if the OM did or not, but who knows? I did not cheat on my H in the physical sense, but I did in my heart and that is so much worse. I don't think of myself as a cheater, though to be realistic I did. Would I ever do it again. NO! In the beginning, I was very unhappy in my marriage, emotionally needy, and I figured I was just passing time. I played a dangerous game and fell in love with the OM. I am a grown woman and I have never gone through anything as painful as this. Did your H have an EA with one of these women or does he just chat with lots of women? There is a web site that is really informative on the dangers of online relationships..it is http/ <A HREF="http://www.wildxangel.com." TARGET=_blank>www.wildxangel.com.</A> You may want to check it out.<P>I wish you luck with this. Talk to your husband. I truly hope things improve.<P>LS<P><BR>[<P>[/B][/QUOTE]<P>

Welcome Pep:<BR>I read your message and had to reply. My H was in a similar situation. I knew about his chat rooms and cyber chats. He even tried to get me involved so we could play together online with other couples. I did not like it, didn't want to, left the room. He continued to chat - and I knew about it, but didn't do anything about it thinking, it's only the computer, there isn't really anything going on (physical sex, that is). My H kept saying it wasn't real anyway. I thought why be a nag - let him play. I felt secure. <P>Well, he got more and more involved and these chats eventually became encounters. He was searching for increasingly adventurous sex - and I was too much of a prude to be included. I had the kids to take care of and my weekends were spent going to church (even though, church was only on sunday).<P>You would not believe the number of women that respond and wish to meet with men for quick adventurous sexual encounters! Isn't anybody afraid of STD's anymore??<P>Anyway, I finally came to my senses when my H was going to go to a stockholders meeting with another W he met on the internet (the meeting was to be held on Orthodox Easter weekend, a very special holy time of the year for us Eastern Orthodox christians). In short, he was starting to replace me. I became the housekeeper, nanny, financial caretaker, and personal secretary of husband enterprises. An unpaid and thankless position. He was looking for a wife/playmate.<P>I started plan A, asked forgiveness from my priest, and am now going to attend the weekend meeting. We are into recovery, but it has been a very bumpy road. He still talks occasionally to women on the web, but has not met any since plan A was commenced.<P>I have since been diagnosed with herpes that I was sure I got from my H - but he has tested negative. He has now turned the tables and believes I was cheating on him (that's one of the bumpy parts). I have NEVER cheated on him! <P>I'm sorry I'm rambling - bottom line is if you don't nip these cyber chats in the butt, they will eventually progress to a physical affair. His needs are not being met (and yours also, most likely) and you two need to talk. Please do so before it's too late.

Peppermint[/b][/QUOTE]<BR>"Thank you for your comments about infidelity being more complicated than mere physical stuff. My H was writing to his BestFriend at nights for a couple of years on a pad. He used to go into the bedroom or a room the family wasn't in, and write. He discretely hid by turning it over or pulling his knees up to his chest as he sat on the bed. I was blind to it for a couple of years. One night after a curious conversation, he asked some odd questions of me, I snooped and found a long personal letter to Her, detailing our very personal conversation. Confronted him, asked what was going on, how could he betray our private lives? Said it looked very intimate, very personal, and we had argued about the very intense "Friendship" they had before. This added fuel to the fire. The handwritten notes stopped, Mr. BestFriend got involved, suggested that the Families get together to do things (we all have kids) thereby making this all be very innocent. Families made plans to go to a resort for a weekend, guess what? Mr.BestFriend is out of the country! My H and his BestFriend talked, teased, joked back and forth nonstop all weekend. I tried to be a good sport. Things have progressed, H and BestFriend became closer. July he revealed to me he is only here because of our son, wants a divorce as soon as he is of majority, never loved me, feels no desire, "cares about" me but nothing deeper. What I call the Affair he calls his BestFriend. He has told me I'm crazy; he loves her like a friend, she is not the problem. Just found this site a few weeks ago, and the symptoms he exhibits are identical to other cheating spouses. Merely keeping your fly up doesn't mean you haven't cheated, guys! Much more but I'll not go into it right now. Venus aka Bellevue<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Venus (edited April 18, 2000).]