Well said INLOVE!!<P>New Woman,<BR>The majority of your post was not offensive until your last paragraph which is where you unknowingly set off tempers by touching very sensitive areas.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But, if this makes any sense, I think this is the same for all of you betrayed too. How many of you WISH you could go back and see how unhappy your spouses were? How many of you wish you could go back now and LISTEN to all your spouses cries for help? If only we all could see then what we see now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I know because I too have said things which included statements that included the word ALL. I have found that the words MOST or SOME are better used because it leaves room for the few that really don't apply. We understand it was just your opinion of your situation at least up to that paragraph. <P>I, like CL in this thread, sometimes become to terse in our reponse to some statement that we disagree with which gets interpreted as condescending. I am the king of this accusation. When a person is truly condescending, it is easily known because they will be smug about it. My W called me smug two nights ago. I attribute it to the way that I think. It is more rational thinking meaning I try to think of as many reactions to what I am about to do. I feel that CL picked up on the (for lack of a better word) irrational thought process in the rest of your post. This is not to belittle you. It is to attempt to express what CL may have been thinking because I thought many of the things she expressed. I chose not to post because I knew that I would have come off that way because I am beat up enough by my W for reacting quickly.<P>CL hang in there. After reading your initial response I could tell that the post upset you and that you kept the majority of the deep feeling that I felt from reading and that I assume you felt when you were responding.<P>We all are here to heal. MONDO HUG TO EVERYONE!!!!!!!!<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

nw,<BR>understood what you meant trying to explain how cl took it.....because actually my h betrayed me but my mom is seeing a married man sooooo i understand both sides....it is hard for all....<P>------------------<BR>INLOVE.....<BR>LOVE HAPPY ENDINGS HOPING WE ALL HAVE ONE...<P>

Rob,<P>AGAIN, this was simply a matter of miscommunication. CL didn't "pick up on" any irrational thought process. She, and several others, merely misunderstood me. That's all. I shouldn't have used the word "all," and it is a shame that in using that one word, to some of you it nullified everything I've ever said or done. But, I do think that communication is a process that involves shared responsibility between the deliverer and receiver. So, yes, I failed in delivering my message by using the word "all," but some of you failed in receiving it as well by not giving me a chance to explain and clarify some points BEFORE calling me names and dismissing my thought process. I think we can all forgive each other, though. At least, I know I can.<BR>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.<p>[This message has been edited by new woman (edited August 26, 1999).]

Well, NW, I can say with utmost certainity that if MY H had been asked those questions (referring to your last paragraph ... you know, the controversial one) that he'd be screaming YES YES YES!!!<P>You see, he realizes that the marriage had broken down due in part to his neglect of my needs .... he doesn't use this as an excuse for my affair ... but he does understand the factors that drove me to that decision.<P>I guarantee you that he'd love to turn back the clock and see where things went wrong, would have loved to know how much I was hurting and would have moved heaven and earth to change it ....<P>I see no offense in your words ... hopefully there will be those that have taken your words and used them to better understand their spouse and help them heal.

NW-<BR>At the same time you said "all", you also asked "how many?", thus leaving it open and rhetorical, i think. Yet, too, i see where it could imply that the betrayed had some control over the betrayer. I don't think so. I think it was your personal remorse for the situation showing through.<BR>IMHO.

Maya,<P>Right on the money!!! That's exactly what I meant, and I had no doubt we'd be on the same wavelength.<P>LWB,<P>Exactly! It was my remorse over the missed opportunities to see, act and react to things in my marriage in a more positive way.<P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.

Just for the record - CL's H was offended by something he read here. I wonder what it could have been. <BR>If anybody bothered to notice, the post "Not cl" was from her H.<BR>Maybe you should be debating what might have been offensive to HIM? I'm guessing one of you might figure it out.<BR>Is he one of those betrayers that doesn't qualify in the group?

Wasstubborn,<P>Nobody's debating anything here. INLove, Rob, LoveWasBlind, Maya and I are discussing miscommunication and trying to bridge the gap, find some common ground, clearing up some misunderstandings, and FORGIVE and heal. At least that is what my objective is at this point. I haven't read the thread you're referring to, but I'll check it out. <P>Just for the record, what's your objective?<P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.

i suppose if "not cl" wanted to tell us what was bothering him, he would tell us? <BR>and, yes, i think the final few posts were a mere discussion of the wording of the final paragraph.<BR>I hope trustntruth is right about cl just "processing" her information for a minute, b/c i sure am missing her (hint, hint).

If FORGIVING and healing are so important to you, where were you all when FHL started the wonderful discussion on "The Choosing to Forgive Workbook"? <BR>And if that is your objective why is cl's name in almost every post when she isn't here?<BR> I came to this board to try to help others through the horrors of infidelity and to gain from the wisdom of many. Many of my favorite people here are betrayers. <BR>We have had a lot of very enlightening conversations that didn't have to include mud slinging.<BR>And don't bother to reply that there was no mud slinging here. At least not until some posts are edited.<BR>I don't get offended easily but some of the things that were said here went a little too far. I am speaking for myself and not cl or her H.<BR>You really don't need to reply to me. I told you before that you didn't offend me and I have got plenty of insight from your posts.<BR>I am just very sad to see what is happening at this forum.

ok, I have kept my mouth or should I say fingers out of this mess untill now. I have said this many times here and will continue to do so, we are all adults here with diffrent life experiances, diffrent points of view. But cl did not deserve to be singled out and attacked. Yes she is my friend, I don't think of anyone here as my enemy. There was no need for a lot of this stuff, we are free to say I disagree with you for the following reasons and say what they are. But to jump on someone like cl was jumped on was uncalled for. Miscommunications happen, feelings get hurt, so why not try to be civil in our disagreements ?<BR> I agree with Inlove and Rob and WS and TNT, I'm sorry if that offends anyone but<BR> thats how it is. Now please everyone as Tempest has said before, write what you want but use discreation before you hit the post button, Deb is climbing off her soap box now. Taking cover in preperation for responces,<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

Deb,<P>Don't know if you'll listen to an objective outsider or not, but maybe I can play mediator for a minute. As an observer I don't see where your friend was "singled out and attacked" as you claim. In reading this exchange, things looked pretty civil up until a point. It looks like things went south real fast when and got personal when things like "then it shows more of the immature behavior that got you where you are today." And "I have read enough of your posts to see that you have a lot of growing to do" were said. After that, it got ugly. But then things calmed down and there's even an apology that was never acknowledged. <P>But that's just how I see it sitting way back here and I realize I'm not in on the email exchanges which might tell more of the story. <p>[This message has been edited by imago (edited August 27, 1999).]