Gabriellec,<P>I'm going to try to say something that will help you even though I'm not really back to MB; I'm going out of town again, and won't be able to reply back.<P>I have learned so much from the Harley books. The first and maybe the hardest thing was to not focus on fixing the hurt.<P>It has really worked for me.<P>The real question is IF you could have a wonderful in-love relationship with this man (your h), would you want it? I know it doesn't seem possible, at least it didn't for me.<P>The next thing is it is ok to feel the hurt, but think about something else or how he is trying so hard now every time you start to dwell on what happened.<P>Then you both focus on doing all the things to meet each other's needs, including the four rules in Harley's book on Recovering from an Affair.<P>I honestly did not think the pain and anger would heal on its own, but it did for me. There are still bumps, but I am very positive now about our relationship.<P>I was skeptical whether it would work, but it really did. Don't address the hurt/forgiveness yet. Focus on the present.<P>I believe Lostva's words were very good (and helped me), but that state may be a little way off yet. I am just starting to get there.<P>First, I started really seeing and encouraging him on the good he was doing now. Then I started to believe that his affairs did not make him a bad person. It was a terrible thing, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't define who he is. I think my profile is still there.<P>He was in a second affair before I found out about anything. I worked hard to understand why, and I think I finally am getting it. He was looking for love - in all the wrong places. Now I don't have the security that he will be there no matter what; I have a new sense of security that what we have is so good, he won't stray again if we keep it up. Like someone else said - trust in the richness of our relationship.<P>Before I thought he would be faithful because he is a good man and the father of two lovely small children. But it wasn't enough, and though I wish he had not strayed, I am so glad to have the marriage I have now rather than the one I had six months ago.<BR>

Just a summary of references...<P>Sites:<BR><A HREF="http://www.divorcebusting.com/forumlinks4.html" TARGET=_blank>Forgiveness is a Gift You Give Yourself</A> and <A HREF="http://forgivenessweb.com" TARGET=_blank>The Forgiveness Web</A><P>Books:<OL TYPE=1><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/034541344X" TARGET=_blank><B>The Art of Forgiving :</B> When You Need to Forgive and Don't Know How</A> by Lewis B. Smedes <BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060674318" TARGET=_blank><B>Forgive and Forget </B>: Healing the Hurts We Don't Deserve</A> by Lewis B. Smedes <BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0785282556" TARGET=_blank><B>The Choosing to Forgive Workbook</B></A> by Les Carter, Frank Minirth <BR></OL><P>Posts:<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/006615.html" TARGET=_blank>How to rebuild my spouse's trust?</A>…..redman…..8/23/1999<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/000076.html" TARGET=_blank>Can I forgive?????</A>…..indy032…..1/31/2000<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/000274.html" TARGET=_blank>Things my husband did to rebuild trust</A>…..HGBrawner…..3/17/2000<P> <P>Just some additional ideas...<P>Jim

PLEASE HELP, MY DEAR DEAR FRIEND<P>Thank you sooooo much for your support:d<P>A few weeks ago, I just happened to be passing the Church that we got married in and I decided to go in and have a chat with the man above. Welllllllll When I went inside there was this door just around the corner which said "please come inside" it was a confessional. I went in and I was confronted by a screen, so I poked my head around the screen and there was the priest and I said to him "Hi ya, do you mind if I come round your side to have a chat, I hate talking to screens". He didn't mind at all and was delighted to chat to me.<P>I told him all about our problems etc and he was really nice. I told him I found it hard to pray and he suggested I go round all the stations of the cross and look at what Jesus went through at each one and try to imagine what each picture is saying to me in relation to what we are going through now.<P>He also told me to listen to the Gospel very closely and see what significance it holds for me at the particular time (he meant at weekly Mass). he also said that what my H has done is a terrible thing and if I find that I cannot go on with him then not to feel guilty about this cos my happiness was very important too. In essence he was saying to me, "Dont stay for the sake of the kids if you cannot be happy with this man again". <P>Well as you can imagine, I was taken aback cos the Catholic Church are very set in their ways around the family etc, no matter what the spouse has done <P>last night I gave him another compliment Frank, I told him that he really looked great with all this body building he was doing and I said to him "I cannot believe this fine thing I am married too". Frank, he was on a high for the day and even tonight he said to me. "I cannot believe you are saying things like this to me, It just doesn't seem like somthing you would say". I told him I really meant it and he ws delighted with himself.<P>Frank my friend, enough about me, how are you coping in your situation? Are things any further on with you and your W. I would love ot know. You are such a lovely man and you deserve only the beeeeeeeeeest.<P>Thinking of you my dear friend<P>Love and hugs <BR>gabrielle<P> <p>[This message has been edited by gabriellec (edited May 03, 2000).]

NSR<P>Thank you Jim<P>I have downloaded all the material you recommended and I thank you so much for your time and help<P>Hopefully it will be of some help.<P>Gabreille

HI Gabrielle,<BR> WOW!! You ARE getting good at the compliments!! The one to your H was GREAT because of TWO things. One it in itself was just nice. BUT, you also evidently hit on another "Need".<BR> Picture this,<BR> You get up, drive to the gym, sweat and sweat and sweat. You are REALLY trying hard to get your body in good shape. You come home and NO mention of ALL the hard work!!<BR> I found out my POOR W was going to get her nails done to get MY attention. She went into that SMELLY nail salon, sat till it was her turn. Then spent a half hour in a chair with someone POKING and GLUING etc... and she'd come home and I NEVER noticed (OM did though I'm sure ) . Of course she'd show me and THEN I'd tell her how nice they looked, BUT, it's not the same.<BR> SOOO, you telling your H ALSO filled that VERY important need to have YOU notice!! GREAT JOB!!! It's so easy isn't it!! <BR> It's nice to make someone feel good. By the way, THANKS SO MUCH for the kind words! They MADE ME feel good!!<P> YOU SAID: "Frank my friend, enough about me, how are you coping in your situation? Are things any further on with you and your W. I would love to know. You are such a lovely man and you deserve only the beeeeeeeeeest."<P> Well, no news is good news? We talked on Monday and the conversation was very good. Her voice is a lot softer now and she seems concerned about me, I mean, she seems to care more than usual about how I am. We talked about our "New First" Grandchild" (We're young for GC in our 40's) and that was a very warm talk. She Loves me I can feel it. The draw of OM is slowly breaking down. She's still a little "FOGGY" but she's talking about her going back to church soooo, I feel the fog may be lifting!! PRAY for us OK? <BR> It's funny, I just got a new computer and was transferring some files from the old one and I came across a letter I wrote to my W about one month after she left. (Wait till you see THIS Lori!!) <BR> TALK ABOUT ANGER!!! It's long so I'll email it to you if you'd like to see how far you can come in SPITE of all this mess!! (darrt@prodigy.net) I was AMAZED how different I feel about this now, PRAISE GOD!! I've really come a long way!! Thank GOD I never sent it!! Thanks again my Dear friend for the smile!! GOOD LUCK & PRAYERS FRANK<P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P>

Dear Gabrielle, I'm hopping onto your thread or post (not sure what to call it) to <BR>[B]PLEASE HELP, MY DEAR DEAR FRIEND<P>because of your experience in the Church. I am also Catholic, and after the big Conversation with my H which sent me into a tailspin, I languished in a terrible place. I had to get this off my conscience and went to Confession. I expected a very different reaction from the priest, a stock penance or a predictable one of "good works and charity", all of which I was prepared to do, even if it meant an involvement of a month or two. <P>Instead of the "stay in the marriage at all costs, do what you can to work it out" he advised me to issue H an ultimatum: Counseling or we separate. I asked him what God wants for me? Because I had prayed and prayed on my knees and opened myself up to His will. I needed the ultimate absolute right and moral answer from Him. <P>The priest said "God wants you to be happy." Shocker. Thought for a minute, and realized that he did not mean nor did I take this to be "happy" in a hedonistic sense, (such as "look for a handsomer, wealthier, studdlier more social man to be with," but rather not to allow emotional cruelty. He also told me to confide in someone and get counseling from a professional if H refused to consider it. That God put us on earth to help each other, and to turn to each other when we are troubled and in despair. <P>The Church or at least its younger priests have a different slant on things than when my parents were married. <P><BR>He also suggested meditation on the crucified Christ, because an emotional affair and emotional abandonment of a spouse is a betrayal, and to think on the betrayal and sacrifice of Christ. So church continues through this mess to buoy me up. During Easter I went a lot, included friends in the plans for Stations of the Cross, and other Easter Duty, including a vigil mass which our son REALLY enjoyed (for the first 2 hours; then he wilted and who can blame him).<P>Blessings from across the pond.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess

PLEASE HELP <P>You have mail<BR>

Bellevue<P>Hi there <P>Thanks for your post.<P>You are so right about the Church. Nowadays the priests are much younger and far more understanding than in my Mother's day also.<P>In times of real trouble you just cannot go it alone. We all need divine intervention but, when you have been away from Church for as long as I have (approx 5 yrs) it's hard to feel that its actually doing anything for you cos your faith in everything is destroyed after an extra marrital affair.<P>Hopefully as time goes by, it will give me help.<P>love<P>Gabrielle

Gabrielle<P>It is nice to read through the threads and see changes.<P>Have you seen how many changes you have made? Be encouraged. Your behavior does affect his behavior.<P>Live each moment for the moment in your marriage - put aside the heavy stuff, and enjoy your time with your husband. Put effort into making each moment a celebration of that time. <P>You are getting great at the compliments. That means that he needs admiration from you. He needs something that you can give. That is power! Use it for the bridge to your future.<P>Please do not get caught up in the things that he doesn't do to help you, and the things he does to hurt you. This is temporary. You must realize that all of this is a process, and your husband's negative behavior will not always be this way. Time time time. <P>It is okay to get on your knees at home too. The Lord hears your prayers, and has counted all your tears. He wants you happy, and He hates divorce. He can heal your marriage, and He can give you the fortitude and wisdom and grace to keep on keeping on.<P>Get out your measuring stick, and ask yourself where those measuring marks are. Ask yourself are your measuring marks too far apart - because if you measure in smaller increments, you will see the progress you and your husband have made.<P>In the heat of our emotions, we aren't seeing the entire picture, but rest assured, your Savior sees the entire picture. Just like when he went to the cross. When you look at the cross, and see the sacrifice, remember the Lord was looking at the entire picture. It was worth it to Him, and you do the same thing.<P>God Bless You, and God give you his grace, his wisdom, his peace, and his promises.<P>TNT

trustintruth<P>Thank you for your post.<P>I realise that when I am being nice to him, his behaviour changes towards me in so far as he is nicer to me, especially if I give him a nice compliment.<P>Sometimes its very hard not to get cought up in the "REMBERING" and wondering what they did together, in the bedroom and outside of it. and I knowwwwwwwwwwwww that this is doing me no good but sometimes I just cannot help it.<P>This weekend we went to Manchester in England to see his favourite team play and we had a great time, no kids just the two of us. It was still all there in my head, I try to change my thought pattern and most times it works but for some reason this weekend it didn't. I tried my best not to LB and I didn't but when I start to go down that road again I feel really depressed.<P>We just carry on as if we are good friends, no intimacy at all, just the odd hug or kiss or sometimes he will just take my hand for a while,but I worry that things will never get better. Will I ever be able to say I am really in love with my husband or will he ever be able to say that he is in love with me? <P>I suppose I am expecting miralces, but I know nothing will happen until I can make a huge effort and even then I am afraid that then he wont be able to love me again cos of her he told me he had strong feelings for her when I found out, he said he would have been in love with her had he been with her for much longer <P>It's so frightning at times all these mad feelings.<P>God bless and thank you for your prayers<P>Love<P>Gabrielle

PLEASE HELP<P>Hi Frank<P>Did you get my e mail or did I send it the address wrong again? <P>love<BR>Gabrielle<p>[This message has been edited by gabriellec (edited May 08, 2000).]

gabrielleC,<P>For me it was longer than 5 years that I was away and I didn't know where to begin again. But by attending services, getting involved in the ritual, and volunteering to help in areas where I have ability, I feel more like a belong. Going to confession was hard. I forgot more sins than I could ever confess. When I came out there was a line half a block long! I just hoped my voice and Father's wasn't carrying too far.<P>I joked to my H that some of the men were pressing cards with their phone numbers into my hand as I left the church, grinning and winking all the while. (Of course that wasn't true.) <P>I had been away so long and could never receive communion because I wasn't in a state of grace, and couldn't go to confession because I was afraid the roof would blow off the church if I read the long list, or that I'd have to practice CPR on the priest if I read the short form. (Can you tell I'm Irish? Blarney runs in my veins.) But now I can receive the Blessed Sacrament and I feel so grateful to be in Communion with the rest of the church.<P>Gabriellec, do the actions and the feelings and the devotion will follow. (Just like the marriage building.)<P>God bless.