If y'all can indulge me for a few.<P>I have seen discussed on this board on many threads the opinion that the betrayer displays behaviors that they would never have displayed had they not been betraying. I don't know if I really buy this one.<P>In my case, I can see that the behaviors of my wife are similar to those she exhibited while we were married. They are all extreme forms, but I can see the genesis in our married life.<P>So how about it, from betrayers and betrayed: Do you think you or your spouse turned into another person, with different goals, values, and personality, or are they manifesting extreme forms of previous behavior?

Gramps, my W has financial goals, career goals, and relationship goals that have always been there but has only recently had the courage to act upon them (her own words). The pain and loss may cause the WS to appear more distant and cold than usual, because I'm sure I'm appearing to be the same way to her (maybe more pathetic than distant and cold, though)...<P>theo<P>

I think the betrayer usually is just letting out a behavior that was there all along. It may be a little more extreme because the truth is out but the basic behavior was there all along. The problem is that the betrayed failed to pay attention. Sometimes we just see what we want to see and disregard the little "outbursts" blaming them on anything from stress to pms.<P>I was betrayed without warning but I knew something was very wrong..

OHhh, good question, Gramps. And I'm finding it hard to answer...... yup, me!!<P>I do know that Robert, during the affair, SEEMED to be a completely different person than the years before it...and since he's come home. His family, his lifelong friends (and, of course, me and our daughter) had no idea how to deal with this person. He abandoned his daughter (I mean NO CONTACT with a child he had always cherished - these two were joined at the hip for 10 years), gave up on his business, his education, stopping seeing his family, screamed, yelled, cussed at EVERYONE, ignored his appearance and, ugggg, personal hygiene, became crude, rude, aggressive (ok, he's always been a bit agressive, but not excessive) even the "rough" guys who had known him since childhood said that, all of sudden, he made them seem like well-bred gentlemen! He actually got "physical" with PT (about the 100th time she attacked him. Like he told me "I've become all the men I've ever hated." (no, she wasn't hurt, but he got scared to death - at himself! The list goes on and on. He was pretty much a foul and unpleasant person to be around.<P>I do believe that a bit of this sort of stuff resides in each of us....maybe during times of great stress, we can't hold on to the parts of ourselves that we've worked hard to develope and have become proud of. Who knows. I do know that, when he began to break away from PT, even BEFORE he returned here (or even talked about coming home), I started hearing "Robert's seeming a lot more like himself these days. Not so much like HER anymore." Yeah, PT's a piece of work!<P>So, uh, I don't know. Seems that way sometimes. <P>Lori<P>

In my case - I had a 'feeling' something was up - ignored them. He did change a little, but not much - <P>Now - not to change the subject, but the change in my husband has been SINCE I found out - at first he was mean and even nasty at times - like it was my fault he did this. Then - he became this person I have never seen before - the very attentive, truly sorry, loving, caring man I knew he had in him, but someone i hadn't seen in many many years. <P>I was trying not to be overly negative, but I felt he MUST still be talking to her, because he was TRYING so hard. It has been 5 months now and I THINK he is trying real hard, but the hurt was so deep - I am very cautious.<P>I guess we are both trying. So how about drastic behaviour changes AFTER discovery...

A very good point, GrandP.<P>I think that my H was displaying very exaggerated forms of his previous behaviors.<P>Example: neither he nor I are good housekeepers. We work at it, but you will never mistake our home for one on the cover of "Metropolitan Home."<P>Today, and pre-affair, when something gets too messy for him he will say, "Who is going to clean up the [basement, computer table, closet--whatever.]" At worst we'll get into a discussion of whose stuff is where it isn't supposed to be. (To be fair, I do the same if I think that his stuff is the offending stuff.)<P>During the affair, especially when he came home after being with It, he would see something out of place and thunder, "HOW THE HE** DID THAT G E T LIKE THAT???" And he would then go on to tell me how lousy I was at keeping house. (Keep in mind that I have a full time job outside the home.) He would further use that incident to let me know what a crummy person I was in general and how I didn't understand that he was just expressing his opinion.<P>So you see it was the same trigger, same basic response, but the proportions were way off. That's just the easiest example to bring up.<P>So, I agree that this was an extreme form of previous behavior, not a new goal or ideal, but the manner in which it was presented was enough for me to say that he was not the person I knew.<P>Thanks for making me think. --HBC <p>[This message has been edited by HurtButCoping (edited April 24, 2000).]

HI Grand.....<BR> We ALL have our demons. The GUILT and PAIN of an affair just magnifies them. For BOTH sides. It's simply DRIVEN by the evil side of GOOD and EVIL. <BR>

I can see your point. I am not one who deals with uncertainty very well. I like to know what is happening so that I can plan for the outcome.<P>When my stbx started this thing, I became very uncertain and tried to control the situation. This drove her even further away because the last thing she wanted to be was controlled. After all, she said she "wanted to be completely and totally independent." How she did that when she moved right in with OM is beyond me. Couldn't resist the little dig the first time I went over there, "So how is Miss Completely and Totally Independent today?" How's that for an LB?<P>We have now been separated for 6 weeks today. She keeps telling me that she is happy and doing good. I can't see how, but it is her life. <P>We are going to sit down and talk tomorrow for the first time since the break. I have asked her to think about coming back, and she seems to be receptive to the idea. I don't know. Do I let this person back, just to wonder when the next time it happens?<P>I am content with my life now. I still miss her sometimes, usually when she has the kids. Funny, I don't really miss her when I have them. I have much less stress. My motivation (as near as I can tell) is to try to salvage the marriage because our children deserve both parents in their lives full time. I guess I will find out more tomorrow.<P>I need to remember to be patient. All of you please pray or wish or whatever you do for patience for me. I know this will not happen overnight, that it takes time, but patience is not a very strong virtue for me.<P>Wish me luck and I'll let you know what happens tomorrow.<P>Gramps

Hi, Gramps. I think we've ALL discovered that patience is one of those qualities we had to cultivate here!!! So don't feel alone there.<P>You know, a lot of spouses who've passed through here had tried to save their marriages just "for the sake of the kids", or because "they should". Seems a bit flimsy at first. But the fact of the matter is, many of them, after giving it all they've got are VERY happy that they did and living a life more wonderful than they ever imagined. I guess the reasons don't really matter if you put all you have into it.<P>Good luck. <P>Lori