So we sat down at Marie Callender's to talk for the first time since she left. I had asked her to talk about several things, including the final divorce settlement and/or whether we should get back together.<P>She showed up and wanted to talk about the final divorce settlement. My heart dropped into my shoes. I didn't expect anything else, but it was so sad.<P>All of you know my situation. She had told others that wife #2 took her away from me. I asked her about this and she denied it (of course). She said that wife #2 was not woman enough to take me away. I responded that wife #2 is more woman than she could ever be because when the chips were down, wife #2 is the one that decided to stay with the family, while she is the one that walked out with no backward look.<P>Sorry about that one, I know it is an LB. But sometimes...<P>Well, I guess my decision is made. The OP is the answer to all of her problems, just like I was, just like wife #2 was. Wonder how long it will take before she looks at herself.<P>Thanks for listening and say a prayer for my children.

You know something? It seems to me as though your wife's problem stems from your relationship with "wife #2".<P>Let me see if I've got this straight. Your wife embarked on an affair with another woman. Upon discovery, y'all talked it out and decided to blend the other woman into your family, whereupon you also began a relationship with the other woman. Now, it seems as though you probably started caring more about the other woman than your wife. So, your wife, feeling left out in the cold, then sought out another man. Now, you want her back, but you also want to keep the other woman with whom <B>she</B> initially had an affair.<P>In short, your wife probably feels like she was royally screwed over in the whole arrangement. You took over her lover, and the lover took over her kids. What does that leave for your wife? Not much, if anything.<P>Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how the whole situation looks to me.

Uh, no.<P>This part is correct.<P>"Your wife embarked on an affair with another woman. Upon discovery, y'all talked it out and decided to blend the other woman into your family, whereupon you also began a relationship with the other woman."<P>Actually, the relationship btwn the women started as an EA. The three of us talked about it and decided to have a PA. I know. WRONG. 20-20 hindsight is great.<P>I asked her if the other woman had anything to do with the breakup. She said no. Now, I wouldn't believe her if she told me the sky was blue, but that's what she said. <P>Wife decided that she was still not getting what she needed, so she started affair with man.<P>She said that if she decided to come back at some future date, there were two conditions. One, she wants more kids. OM wants more kids. I don't. My vasectomy is next month. The other is that the other woman leaves our house. I said OK.<P>OK, one more vent. The OM has two kids by two different women, neither of which he was married to. He does not even live in the same state. He will take a job soon where he will be gone for 4 weeks at a time, then home for 4 weeks. She will stay here. So we have two NCP's, one who seldom sees his kids and the other that walked out on hers. I think they should have at least a dozen more. They are doing so well with the ones they have. Sorry, but I'm angry. Better to say this here than to her face.

She wants more kids? You have got to be kidding. She needs to get herself straightened out before even going down that road. I believe that it has everything to do with wife #2. That is the problem....plain and simple. I don't care what she says......that is the problem.<P>She is very confused......Is she staying in contact with your son? Her OM sounds like a loser. What she sees in him...I can't figure out.<P>Nancy

Yeah, well. It takes all kinds. She never took a very active role in the raising of the ones we have. Wife #2 and I did virtually all of the child rearing. That was one of the major reasons I got custody.<P>She actually is a better mother now than when she was here. Actually takes the kids for most of the time she is allowed, which is a lot more than she paid attention to them before.<P>My opinion is that she did this to "wipe the slate clean." It was too hard to keep up the lies and other BS, so she decided to get out of the situation to someone who does not know her as well. That way she can start fresh and he doesn't know the way she is and what she is capable of. I told her that she should have OM wear condoms, since she planned both of her pregnancies without my knowledge. Course she said that she would never do that to him. I said you did it twice, you will do it again.<P>What an idiot. I'm not being very MB like. Sorry.

HI Grandpa,<BR> I think what Sweetpea said may be true!! Getting OW to leave is one of her conditions IF she comes back.<P><BR> I know this would be hard for you (even me) I feel she has feeling too that need to be respected. Regardless of my initial feelings about the arrangement, I have respect for the fact that she stayed to comfort you and the children and she deserves better than to be "kicked to the curb) <P><BR> Your W's statement "She's not woman enough to...... (that's a Loretta Lynn song isn't it?) SCREAMS of "defensive" and that's why I agree with Sweetpea. And the fact she wants more children MAY stem from the fact that she wants ones that are "JUST HER CHILDREN"??? Is this possible???? You know her better than anyone.<BR> <BR> So, it boils down to this maybe?<BR> She KNOWS you don't want more children<BR> She KNOWS you won't sever the tie with OW (which I agree would seem so unfair right now)<P> THEREFORE the old..... <BR> "Irreconcilable Differences" ???<BR> The road to the "Right Thing" is always a narrow one filled with uncertainty and obstacles. <BR> As I see it, these are your obstacles. They may be your ONLY ones (OM probably doesn't matter)<BR> I WILL as always pray for you all. FRANK

So I have a dilemna (sp). Do I let the wife back, just to wonder when she will do it again? Or do I cut my losses and try to make a life with the other.<P>I think a lot of her anger towards wife #2 is because she is here and sees the kids daily, while wife #1 has become a visitor in the childrens lives.<P>IMO, she is a much better visitor than an every day parent. And this is not just in the last 6 months. When son was born, we lived with my mother for a while (this is long before wife #2). Even then, she let my mother or me do most of the parenting. She was just never too interested as long as she had someone else around to do for them. She would play with them for a few minutes, like taking a doll down from the shelf, and then put them back in the crib.<P>The children issue is much more important for her. I already have 6. I've done my part for "be fruitful and multiply." And probably your part, too. I don't know if she believes me, but I told her that I did not have a problem with severing the relationship with wife #2 if she came back. And I would, for the good of my children.<P>My road, as I see it, is to do the best by my children, finish my education, and try to get on with my life. I will not wait for her to come back. Behavior has consequences. Choices have upsides and downsides. I protected her from the consequences for 14 years. Can't do it anymore.<P>She has made it fairly clear that she wants to have kids with OM. Good luck to her. She will need it.

HI Gramps,<BR> OK, so here's my take.<BR> I have to admit I see you're point when you say <P>"So I have a dilemma (sp). Do I let the wife back, just to wonder when she will do it again? Or do I cut my losses and try to make a life with the other. <P> That's a "Choice" none of here have so it isn't part of the thinking, However, certainly a consideration for you AND your children. Especially, since you consider her a little LESS of a parent (for lack of better words) than she could be. <BR> I'm also encouraged that you told her:<P>"I told her that I did not have a problem with severing the relationship with wife #2 if she came back. And I would, for the good of my children"<P> THAT INHO, is one of the MAJOR obstacles to a happy, healthy ending to this your story. For your W yourself and your children.<BR> <BR> You should try and hold on for a LITTLE longer for this ending (And I know what you mean about "Protecting from consequences) for EXACTLY the same amount of years with MY W!!)<BR>for your children.<P> Now, again INHO, the "Other" MAJOR obstacle. <BR> Another child.<BR> It sounds kind of with my W, she wants to by a Parrot, we have one. She had OM buy her another dog, we have two. AND when we bought the second one, WE HAD A DOG!!<BR> She seems, like your W, to be searching for happiness and thinks another child will do it. A lot like MY W.<P> This is something you don't want. Much like the second dog I bought her when we REALLY didn't need another in a condo. <P> I did it to make her happy. I ended up taking care of TWO dogs and then she moves out and OM buys her one 4 months ago and NOW she's bored with that one and takes the 2nd one we had BACK from me, asks me to take it back or she'll give it away, and when I say OK, she wants to KEEP it now!! Whew, is she confused or WHAT!!<P> I told you all that for this reason. I agree with you, she should learn to take care of the two she has NOW!!!<BR> I mean, your youngest is under 2 years old isn't that right?<P> BUT, MAYBE, just maybe it's because she feels she HAS done wrong by the two she has now and thinks having another, she will be able to "Make this one right" <P> Much like MY W THOUGHT she would spend more time with the dog OM bought her and would take it everywhere, and take it to obedience training class and all that jazz. It sits alone in a dog crate while she works 60 hours a week, JUST like the 2nd one I bought her. <P> Here's my advice, NO you probably shouldn't let her "bait" you into another child because, of course, it a MUCH bigger commitment than MY W's dogs and sounds like a search for inner peace.<BR> HOWEVER, she HAS offered this as an obstacle to getting your family reunited.<P> MAYBE, if you go along with it, or at least be open minded in discussing another child with YOU instead of OM. She JUST may see that as a genuine profession of "Giving" love on your part and realize she has everything she needs already.<BR> If you TRULY love your W and you want her back, fight a little for her. Remember, in the immortal words of Lennon & McCartney (and God I think) "Pride can hurt you too" (She Loves you)<P> GOOD LUCK & PRAYERS FRANK

Hi, Gramps.<P>When you lb, you do it big, huh? That's just what a wayward spouse needs to hear - added ammunition to her brain with that one, didn't you? We've all done a bit of it from time to time!<P>OK, how long has it been since she's left? And begun this latest adventure? If I remember right, only a few months right?<P>If that's true, she's not thinking clearly, not speaking clearly, doesn't really have a clue what's going on in her own head (but firmly BELIEVES that she does!). Remember your thread about different people? Robert left saying he couldn't take the responsibility, children, pets (and didn't love me, had never loved me, wished I were dead, ad nauseum) JUST to move in with a 23 year old girl (needy as heck!) with a 3 year old daughter, 2 dogs and 7 cats!!!! HUH?????<P>Now??? He sits and says "What the He$$ was I THINKING???!!" among other things! Stress (we suffered some personal tragedies and he was over-worked and exhausted, part-time college, full-time job AND building a business), depression and the aliens took over his mind for a while! So, don't put much stock in what she SAYS she wants until she REALLY pulls her head together.<P>Now, just wondering. I remember you said that she was the major "bread-winner" for a bit while you were in school. Has it always been this way?? I mean, even at the beginning, was she working more hours? Were you and your parents available for more hours in the day to parent the children? I mean, did she turn that over to you simply out of exhaustion and practicality? It would be easy to do. AND, speaking as one who's had in-law and parental interference, is it at all possible that living with your parents made it difficult for her to parent as she'd like - even a little bit. Not to bash your parents, but it's really hard for the parents of adults not to take over just a bit with their grandchildren - even when we DON'T live with them. Very little things (things that YOU might not even notice can tear a mother apart) can make a woman (or man) "back off" to avoid a confrontation with parents (or in-laws). Just asking to get a grip on why she feels just you, with a "new" child, would be a more acceptable arrangement. Like Frank said, maybe she feels the need for something that's just "hers". Who knows. But there has to be reasons that make sense to HER right now....maybe you can figure them out.<P>It's early in this mess yet. Neither of you have had the time to examine and grow yet. And, you know, somewhere there are reasons that she "bolted". Reasons that made her feel she had no other choice. And they're never obvious, never what she says, never what you think. Things that overwhelm our spouses that we never even think of. Remember, it's rarely big things that tear a relationship down (although, in some cases, it serves as a catalyst), but little, seemingly inconsequential things that build up over time until a person finally breaks. <P>You decision is only made if you choose it to be. It doesn't seem that way, but there it is. The REAL thing and the REAL decisions take a lot of time....and patience. There's a lot going on in her, Gramps. I can just feel it. (UH, oh, Frank, there goes my intuition! ) Stuff you haven't thought about yet, that when you put it all together is gonna make tons of sense to you. I just know it...I don't know why.<P>Good luck. You've got a big job, no matter which way you go.<P>Lori<BR>

It sounds like your wife needs some DEEP THERAPY. She brought another woman into your lives you agreed, now she wants another man into it. Your wife sounds like a child that wants a new toy every now and then. She sounds irresponsible and doesn't understand the meaning of commitment or is afraid of it. She sounds like not only does she have emotional issues but issues about her sexuality and expects EVERYONE to conform to her way of life. JMHO

Thanks for all of your insights.<P>PH: Indulge me in a little joke. "It's good to have a spare." Ok, now I am ducking the tomatoes!<P>Our youngest just turned one this month. My fear is that she will never know her mother as anything other than a visitor. I've done that for 15 years and it's not fun. You may be right. One of her stated reasons for having our daughter is that she wanted to do a better job than her mother did with her. Not starting out very good. I do not want any more children. I've done my part. My vasectomy is scheduled for May 9th and I'm not changing the date. Period.<P>I think that this is a smokescreen. I think that they are both fooling with each other. OM tells her he wants more children to keep her. She stays because of the promise. Neither of them have any idea what they will do if they get what they want. I guess OM is getting this k-a job. She thinks, if I know her, that she will stay home and pump the little buggers out like a queen bee. She'll get a couple, and then OM will all of a sudden stop coming back from wherever it is he goes. And then what?<P>lostva: Yeah, I tend to do things big. She has been gone physically for 6 weeks. Mentally and emotionally for 6 months. She has not been the primary breadwinner for most of our marriage. As a matter of fact, she did not work for most of our marriage. It didn't really make any difference to her whether we had mom or wife #2 or someone else. She just can not really be bothered with taking care of a child full-time. She is the same way with housework. Funny, the first time I went over to her and OM's place to pick up the kids, OM was doing the dishes. I thought to myself, "better get used to that, guy."<P>What I feel I need to do is take a break. I can't deal with this anymore right now. I am 2 quarters behind in school and need to find a summer job and take care of two kids. I just don't have time to deal with her feces, too.<P>Thanks for all of your help. Updates at the top and bottom of every hour as they say in the news biz.

OK, LOL CONSIDER YOURSELF INDULGED!! How's it going? FRANK