I feel more like a ping pong ball than a rollercoaster.<P> I am going along thinking I should do plan A. Do a great plan a. And that I should continue till this summer.<P> Then something happens, and I think, no plan B. I can't take this coldness and creulty and am I allowing him to continue this relationship with her without any consequenses? I can't work on this alone forever at some point he needs to get with the program too.<P> Then something else. I saw the OPrah show on TV and They asked the cheater, would you respect her more if she gave you an ultimatum and he said yes and I wonder if I should just give him the other letter I wrote that said, I love you, am willing to work on our marriage to make it more fullfilling, etc, but you must choose, and let me know honastly what you want.<P> Then I go back to plan A. Am I the only one that is so confused? This affair? only friendship has been going on for a year now, with discovery last August, and it seems to be getting more intense, not less. My plan a feels more like me walking on eggshells as everything is a LB.<P>So what do you think? Am I more confused than most? What can I do to get some kind of progress here? I have written him note after note and get no response. I am in counseling and working on me. I am just starting to maybe not be so available when he is off, but start to do my own things to keep me sane and feeling less alone.<BR>Lora

Lora,<P> No advice here. Your timeframe is much the same as mine, except my w's EA turned into a PA (started on the internet). She claims its over, but she is still distant and cold and is looking to move out of the house very soon. I also waffle between Plan A or going to Plan B. I change my mind daily. Keep your chin up...you are not alone...sigh!<P>Arrow

Lora no one here can give you the answer on to Plan B or Plan A. We can give suggestions, but ONLY YOU can really say that your spirit has had enough and that you can no longer have contact with someone who hurts you so. And if you feel like you want to continue speaking or seeing him then you KNOW that you are not ready for Plan B and that if you were to Plan B while in an unsure state of emotion then you would most likely fail and make contact and then that would set you right back at square 1. If you are not ready to FULLY commit to Plan B then don't do it yet. You will know when it is time for yourself to remove you from his confusion.

Hi Lora,<P>This is a very difficult time and I know you just want it to be over and have your H come to his senses. But it takes time and work if that is to happen.<P>I write because I just saw that Oprah show. Well, finally we have found something that Oprah has not lived through!! I thought her comments to that woman were very hurtful. Unless you've been in the betrayed position calling that woman a weak doormat was a terrible thing to do. She looked so beaten down !!<P>As for the H; how typical he was !! Dr.Phil asked about his last contact with the OW and when he answered, Phil flat out said "That is a LIE". This man had already left his family and lived with OW and then returned home. I hope you have not had to endure that.<P>That cheating H was so confused and screwed up. When he agreed with, he did not come up with this himself, his wife taking a stand regarding his infidelity and THEN he would respect her I wanted to barf. What a total cop out and so typical to want her to make a decison regarding his disgusting choices.<P>Yes, I do think the betrayed needs to make decisions and take stands. But, for yourself NOT because the infidel wants to throw yet one more justification in your lap. YOU choose Plan A and Plan B and divorce for YOU.<P>If Plan A appears to be a "non-stance" I think you are following this MB plan correctly. Very often people Plan A while the infidel remains in contact with the OP.<BR>If that is not for you then you would need to tell your H that continung the affair and being together is not going to happen. If you decide this, you have cut short any time you could spend in Plan A. But I totally understand NOT tolerating this in your life because it is unacceptable and despicable behavior.<P>I believe the MB theories and principles work if you still want the infidel for a spouse. It's tons of work and TIME but I think the first thing you need to do is calm down. NOTHING you do in the next few days is going to fix this. And, until you can get your head together a bit, why not Plan A? If you are going to make him leave, his last thoughts of you can be at least neutral if not pleasant. I think you can ask a person to leave in a calm, rational manner due to his own choices.<P>

Lora,<P>This is such an awful situation to be in. I understand your concerns. I feel like you do on a lot of days. My H moved out. He wanted to move out but wouldn't. He was acting so bizaar and totally different to me and the kids that I urged him to move out.<P>I didn't know much at that time. I didn't know what was going on with OP (though I suspected), or how much, and I did not know about this site.<P>I have learned much here and in counseling sessions with s.harley. I began plan A with H out of the house. It was really hard. But then the OP"s h began calling me with a lot of info that I really did not want to know. (I still do not know how much PA is going on...it seems like a really deep EA) but her H told me things that made me realize how different my H was acting and how much he was lying. <P>One of the things I learned by reading about EN's is that one of my most imp. is honesty. I have a long standing history of lack of trust. Can you believe that my H is one of 2 men that I have trusted in my life (maybe that's an exaggeration, but I truly trusted my H). IF you ever met him you would have trusted him also. This is SOoooooooooooooo out of character. <P>As I found out more truths and gently confronted my H with them...he began to come down alittle from his gradiose fantasy. (they sort of had a "cosmic connection")<P>I actually did a brief plan b, letter and all when he became really disrespectful towards me (we never had that in our relationship....I refused to stand for it)<P>But my kids were really upset. They had never seen us fight. H whined about it too, and I gave in and went back to plan A. The short plan B softened him alittle though and I was able to be more effective in plan A.<P>Anyway, as time has gone on and I have come upon a few more significant lies (still not about sex...actually I am less affected by them having sex than I am about his lying about other things).<P>This makes me want to do plan B. But I have to tell you, plan B is definately about protecting yourself!!!!! You get to the point where you need to protect your own love bank, because it is getting low, due to WS's behavior. I know for me, I would have to move to be effective in plan B. My H, even though he started out by acting like he didn't really want to be a dad anymore, has really reconnected with the kids. <P>He will always call and ask if he can take a kid to soccer or some other event. He went on spring break with us. We had a great time.<P>But I think my H wants both. He wants to keep OP for his "companion" and work partner and I am his safety and family.<P>The only problem with that, is that I do not want that. <P>like I said, I have learned a lot about needs and through introspection, facing my fears and prayer I have learned to trust myself. ( I think I can now trust others, just not expect so muchof them!!!)<P>So, I understand so much the ping-pong effect. Lately, I go one day telling myself "I''m out of here..getting a D", then he does something like the old H, and I waffle back to plan A. <P>Whoever said it takes time is right. It is now almost 6 months since D day. I still do not know much, because my H says he cannot talk to me and hasn't been able to for a long time. But he does want to go to a counselor now to get us to talk. <P>I always thought we did fine. I am a talker (can you tell?) He avoids conflict, but I have always gently nudged him which he had always said he appreciated. I am anxious to figure out what happened.<P>It's so hard to tell what is fact and what is fantasy in these things early on. I try to learn about myself and relationships, but deflect a lot of it because of the fantasy and memory changes that seem to occur.<P>One thing I have always believed is that you can make a strong case for or against the same person!!!! ANd beleive me, I have never doubted my love for my H, but I could definately give you a strong case against him tonight if I wanted to. <P> <P>

Lora,<P>Iam up in middle of nite.Addicted to MB.My hope is that you Plan A as long as you can.Talk to you later today.Your redial friend in plan A.

Thanks everyone. Its good to see that if I am nuts, at least I have some good company.<BR>I know I am not ready to stop plan A (most of the time anyhow) I guess I just get discouraged and dream that someting else will make the difference and move us out of this terrible place.<BR> In shock, yes I usually think Oprah is right on, so I guess her comments kind of hit me hard. I was really kind of disturbed by them. I guess it really is true that you can't understand this unless you have gone through it. I thought she misinteurprted the wives comments about the only way they could be a family with the kids was for him to be there as manipulating the kids. When its the truth isn't it, he can't be a part of their family and live with OW

I'd be hesitant about running my life based on something I heard on Oprah. People treat this woman as if she's some kind of god. Yesterday I had lunch with a friend who fretted about what she cooks for her family, because Oprah said she should try to eat healthier.<P>The cult of Oprah.<P>Anyway...it's really your call as to how much you can take. Your Plan A has been spotty, I'm afraid. No knock on you, certainly we know it's hard, but it's been spotty.<P>Not everyone has the patience that some people here do -- or the willingness to eat dirt for a while, perhaps a long while, on a CHANCE that it might help.<P>Certainly you and your H have a peculiar little dance going...witness your post about 20 questions. And obviously what you're doing isn't working. So try something else. The fact is that yes, you ARE going to have to work on this alone, perhaps for a long time.<P>Plan B is a big step, and again, there are no guarantees. Be sure you're ready before you leap.<BR>

Ah Dazed,<BR> Im such a perfectionist about myself, that your comments about my spotty plan A hurts. I know it is true. Why can't I do better? Why do I let him push my buttons and LB? Why can't I get it? I think I am a patient person with everyone but myself. Maybe I am sabatoging myself.<BR>

Can I answer my own questions? I think I still think there is some way I can control this relationship and my H. I guess I am egocentric enough to think this is all my fault and if I can snoop, and read enough and do something right I can fix it.<BR> Yet, I can't seem to control the one thing I can.. me. I react to my H, or what I suspect, or what I find. I can't seem to find the control to give it time, to calm down, to not take it so personally, to make changes in me. I can't feel I will ever be successful taking that route because I don't think I am good enough or ever will be.<BR>I have probably pushed H away as much as I have tried to draw him to me.<BR> I know I need to work on myself, probably more than I need to work on our marriage. I feel like such a mess.

Lora, your last post hits the nail on the head.<P>As you know, your H is in much deeper than mine was, so it's easy for me to sit here and say, "Do this, it worked for me."<P>But remember this: YOU CANNOT CHANGE WHAT HE DOES, YOU CAN ONLY CHANGE WHAT YOU DO.<P>It's very hard for people with low self-esteem to possibly believe that we could be loved. And as a result, we react to love in one of two ways: We either develop contempt for the person who loves us, or we push that person away.<P>Snooping is not helping you. It is not "putting you in control." All it's doing is making you anxious, so that you ask more questions. Stop it. Just stop doing it.<P>There's a big gap in all of our stories here, and that's "What were we doing before the affair?" I suspect that you have a long history of distancing yourself from your H -- partially to protect yourself from the hurt you felt was inevitable, partially because you felt unloveable.<P>You are right on the money that it's more important to work on you than on the marriage. I know that there is a traumatic event in your past that you need to work through. I do not know if you have the same critical parent issues that I have. I know hopeful1771 does. But you DO need to work on your issues. Maybe your H will wake up, maybe he won't. But the issues YOU have must be resolved for you to have ANY kind of successful relationship, whether with him or someone else.<P>The MB techniques make the assumption that we feel worthwhile enough to have a chance. If you don't feel worthwhile enough:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I can't feel I will ever be successful taking that route because I don't think I am good enough or ever will be.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>...then your Plan A isn't likely to be successful....YET.<P>Lora, it's not hopeless. Every day, every hour is a new chance to turn things around. Things may get worse before they get better. But you have to start somewhere. I hope you are in counseling. If your counselor does not use a cognitive approach, I recommend that you find one who does. These people help you change the way you THINK, to get rid of the old tapes we play that perpetuate our lousy self-image. Only then can you have the strength to Plan A when you're not getting instant results.<P>Hang in there kiddo. Make this investment in yourself. You're worth it.