I just found more internet affairs.<P>I hurt so much.<P>Please say something. Please help me figure out what to do.

HBC,<P>I can tell how much you are hurting because you didn't even take the time to vent. I'm so sorry.<P>I can't give advice because I really don't have any experience with this type of situation. I just wanted to stop in and give you a big (((((HUG))))).<P>Hang in there and take care,<BR>Mitzi

HCB,<P>Iam so sorry for your pain also.IN my case any mention of affair or computer use is LOvebusting.Sharing with friends and crying,praying,reading SAA,posting on MB.All those things have helped with the pain.Gettingbetter

HurtButCoping,<BR> OK, I'm a little late here BUT! DEEP BREATHS!! Another!! OK, you WILL be OK! This WILL PASS!! I PROMISE!! <BR> <BR> Just to pump you up a little. They are Internet affairs!! (I know betrayal is betrayal!! ) BUT..... let's be positive!! If the AVERAGE betrayer lies, what type of lies could you get away with (to OP) on a computer screen!!! MEGA LIES, MEGA HOLES IN AFFAIR!!<BR> <BR> I believe you have a LOT more hope than I do!!! HAng in there, (maybe break his mouse hand!!) Only kidding, just trying to cheer you up a bit!<P> <<<<<<<<<<<HurtButCoping>>>>>>>>>>>><P> We're here for you. AND YOU WILL GET TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS!!! <P>GOOD LUCK & PRAYERS FRANK<P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P>

It's been a long night.<P>In short. I got on his chatting mechanism (ICQ) last night. I logged in as him and read the histories of his chats. There were four affairs that I saw.<P>Two people were on line then. One messaged "How are you?" I messaged back that "I" was great; just made love to my wife. She was surprised to hear of wife but kept right on messaging.<P>I hailed the other one. She had no idea H was married. She told me she had been having phone sex with H for over three years. We've been married 3-1/2. THREE YEARS!!!!! God, am I stupid. Then she told me she knew of "at least two other women" he'd met in person. On one of his many trips to North Carolina. When he didn't want me to come along because he was "afraid of me making the drive alone." I am so, so stupid.<P>H tells me it's all over with them. That I am the only one he wants. That he'll do "anything" to make us right.<P>I forgave the PA in January. I forgave the startup internet affairs in March. Now I'm supposed to forgive the phone sex for as long as we've been married and these two other people he's met "but didn't do anything with, he swears?"<P>I'm hurting too much right now.<BR>---------------------<BR>(P.S.--I forgot my manners: Mitzi gettingbetter, PLEASE HELP, thank you so much for your kind words through the night. I can't tell you how much your support means to me. --HBC)<p>[This message has been edited by HurtButCoping (edited April 28, 2000).]

Hi Hurt,<P>Hey I am in the same boat. Tony did the same thing. Finding all his women on-line. Meeting in real life and having sex. To be honest Tony has done this since day one of our relationship. <P>I just found out he set up a user account for AOL Instant Messanger. Plus IM has a chat site you can join. Great! Oh Yes he denies it. Yet it is the password he uses all the time. NOt sure what to do.<P>Honestly print everything and have him answer you. If he can not be honest than really think about what you want. Right now I am just trying to decide if I am going to try and trust him or not. To be honest I am not sure I am at a point where I want him anymore. He lies all the time. <P>This enrages me. Why be with someone who can not even be honest about his affairs? I know how you feel Hurt. Been there and done that way too many times. <P>The only advice I can give is what I am doing. Take time for yourself and really examine what you want out of your relationship. If he is not prepaired to give it to you than what are you willing to live with. <P>If Tony can not be honest with me about AOL IM than I really think I am prepaired to ask him to leave. I no longer want someone who can not be honest and charish me as the gift I am.<P>(((((((Hurt)))))))

{{{{{{{{{{{{{HBC}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>I am so sorry that you have been hurt again. Finding new evidence is so hard when you think you know what direction you're going.<P>Take those deep breaths as Please Help says. They seem to become a habit but they help.<P>Listen to Paha. She knows what you are going through. Take care of yourself. Copy or print up what you can. My H denied and denied until I would hand him paper proof or quote messages word for word. Sometimes when I would hand him the proof he would seem relieved. It was as if I could get him out of this new mess now that I knew. Maybe that's why he was so sloppy with his secrets. Who know?<P>One thing that you must remember - You are NOT Stupid!!!!!!!!!!!<BR>You trusted someone you love. We can't be watchdogs while we are building a marriage. You are NOT stupid. Repeat that! You are caring and loving. This is not your fault. This is a problem your H has and you are not responsible for it. <P>Every time this new evidence comes out, we feel like we have been socked in the stomach again. I hate that feeling. <BR>Keep talking. Keep venting.<BR>Prayers!<BR>Wassi

hugs...<P>Makes you want to take that mouse and wrap it around his sweet little....<P>Ok that didn't help. All of these affairs have recent contacts?<P>Boy if that's the case maybe look at your plan A. See if it's been good enough, and your ready enough for plan B. Ok take a couple of days to think on that first.<P>Wow!! That is one of my worst nightmares. Lots of superhugs sent your way...

I had lunch with H today. He brought me flowers, which was nice.<P>He is full of promises. I want to believe them. But I keep thinking of that saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." What about "fool me three times?" And the possibility (probability?) of two more physical affairs? He denies them. As he denied the last one. How many more will I find out about? How many more will I never find out about? <P>He told me that most of the phone sex and cyber sex happened when he was on business travel. Guess who leaves on Sunday?<P>I can't Plan A full throttle right now. I can't bust my butt trying to fullfill needs, get feedback that all is well, and then find out that the crap never ended. I keep thinking everything is out in the open, and I keep finding out I was wrong.<P>I was ready to leave last night. I tried to pack my bag with my things and my son's things, but H prevented me. He kept saying "please don't go" but all I wanted to do was leave.<P>Beth, I don't want to Plan B, but I don't know if I can keep on with Plan A.<P>What a day. From being happy that OW from the PA was out of my hair for good to hearing that I never had a husband all to myself the entire time I was married.<P>I want to crawl in a hole and pull the hole in after me. I want to move to Alaska and take up salmon fishing. I want to run away and join the gypsies. Anything but wake up to this again and again.<P>I'm starting to ramble. Thanks for listening. Thanks for all your kind words and suggestions. Keep thinking of me. --HBC

I'll admit I know zilch about this area, but surely this would indicate an addictive problem with him, not just the "not meeting needs" sort of thing that might give rise to a single, "romantic" affair.<P>Have you checked out <A HREF="http://www.netaddiction.com?" TARGET=_blank>www.netaddiction.com?</A> <P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HBC}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Kathi

Hi HCB,<P>How di you get into H's chatting mechanism,ICQ?<P>Iam not sure I could deal with the truth.perhaps it is better to find out little at a time. I dont think I would feel like plan doing plan A if I found out anymore.It does seem like we are dealing with 2 things here ,affairs and internet addiction.I wonder if this can be solved thru MB practices?bethn alias gettingbetter

Hi Hurtbutcoping,<P>Believe me I know that horrible feeling when you find out this stuff.<P>Have you asked him to get rid of ICQ? and other related things IM, IRC, whatever it is he uses? If he is making promises I would ask for some specific actions like that. <P>Do visit the netaddiction.com site. It will give you some insight into the problem.<P>Take care

Bethn,<BR>If you don't know your Hs password for ICQ I don't think you will be able to login as him.<BR><BR>What you can do is install some tool on the PC that records everything that happens there (keystrokes etc.). In that way you can either find out what he's writing or even his ICQ password. I think there is some tool called SPECTOR which could be used for this. Have a look at <A HREF="http://www.tucows.com" TARGET=_blank>www.tucows.com</A> and see if you can find some software there.<BR><BR>scandinavian

Bethn,<BR>Go to <A HREF="http://www.tucows.com." TARGET=_blank>www.tucows.com.</A> Go to the section for PARENTAL CONTROL. You have to choose your OS type (probably windows95/98) and select your region. You will find SPECTOR there, but I'm not sure it records keystrokes, but it takes snapshots of the screen at frequent intervals. But there were other tools there like KID CONTROL and one other (something with the name WinGuard I think) that records keystrokes.<BR>Download one or several of these and install them on the computer if you want to check your Hs activity.<BR>PS:If you find out something please try to balance confronting him with LBs (i.e. think before you speak).<BR><BR>scandinavian

Question to Scandinavian,<P>My H talks to OW every night on ICQ. We all know each other personally so this is NOT an anonymous person that he is "in love" with. She is now his best friend. I am beginning the Plan A and have been doing an ok job of it. I just started a few days ago and I slipped once but for three days, it's been better. Anyway, my question to you is, is there any way that I can see his conversations afterwards? I ask because I believe that if I could read what is shared between them, it might give me insight into:<P>1) If it is mutual, or<BR>2) If he is really in a fantasy and they just talk about "stuff" and it's not a passionate affair.<BR>3) If I am being really foolish to Plan A with someone who is planning a new life with another woman and just has not told me yet. OW has a man in her life but my H told me the other night that both he & she are willing to sacrifice "certain things" to keep their relationship alive. As I am not sure what that means, I'd love to read what they say to understand. He refuses to talk about her with me, wants me to "relax" and try to act normal.. I might be able to ~relax~ in Plan A a bit more if I had a better sense of what is going on...You sound knowledgable about the ways to see what's going on. Any ideas? I can't really download anything to his computer as I belive he would notice that, but, I do notice he has a mailbox.pst file that grows each day and is pretty large. It seems to keep records of his conversations. At least it did a few months ago but the ones I read were not with her. Those are the ones I want to see. Any help??

Hannah,<BR>In my ICQ I can doubleclick on "System menu" in order to get a history of system messages and Outbox. <BR>Another even better solution is to doubleclick on a person on the list. A new send-window should appear. There's a history button on this window that gives you the history of the dialog with this person.<BR>It all depends on what version your H is using I guess, and he might have been able to prevent history from being logged. Maybe there is also a password which even prevents you from entering into his ICQ tool.<BR>But that's all I can help with now I guess. If you need a password in order to get into his ICQ tool I guess you will need to install a keystroke-detection tool as described above.<P>Good luck and feel free to ask for more help!<P>BTW: Shouldn't you continue PLAN A regardless of what planes your H and OW has made for the future? I don't see any reason why you should stop PLAN A in that situation unless it's for moving into PLAN B. Usually people recommend PLAN A as long as you can, and as far as I can see you've not reached that point.<P>scandinavian

My H's ICQ was not password protected on our home machine. He only installed it after I found the PA. He was going on the second business trip and A.D. (After Discovery) and we wanted to keep the phone bill from reaching the astronomical levels it had on the first one. This means that I also have an ICQ account on our home computer.<P>When he first started using it there were only folks he was innocently chatting with. (Like discussing his home business or talking about what food to make for the holidays.) Then his list grew. And I started investigating ICQ a bit more and found out how easy it was to change the active user and read the history files.<P>He immediately deleted it on Thursday night; unfortunately he deleted the whole program (just dropped it in the trash) and took my stuff with it. (You can be innocent on the thing.) That's how I found another way you might try to get in: when I reinstalled the program (and be careful if you're trying to be sneaky--they just put out a major upgrade) it looked for old databases and asked if I wanted to convert those. So, despite the fact that the program was deleted I got all of his and my history files back. This might work if you were to install a separate copy of ICQ on your machine (you know, just for you.) I think that its install software looks for databases anywhere on the system. ICQ is not an especially secure system.<P>As far as my particular situation goes, H says the 3-year phone sex woman looked him up on ICQ. Possible. (You have the option of including your real name on your profile: mine doesn't; his does.) They me in a chat room shortly after we were married.<P>

I wish I had some advice. . .I don't. I don't know how to fix this. All I can say is that sometimes bad things happen to good people. And even when, as in my case, the bad things happen to people who aren't so good, they hurt just as bad. Life just stinks sometimes. There's no way around it. And the hard times are a hell of a lot easier to focus on than the good. But I think if most people are honest, they'll recognize that, looking back, the good times do outnumber the bad, even if only a little bit. If they really don't, well, may the Lord help you. But if they do, then do everything you can possibly do to focus on the good times. And do everything you can do to try to recreate an environment where those good times can happen again. It's all that's keeping me afloat. I hope you feel better. I really do.

Thanks, Actus. I hope you really are feeling better. <P>I'm still trying to come up with a plan. Thank you for reminding me that I can work on an environment where they'll happen again. Sometimes I get all caught up in MB jargon that I forget that's what I'm trying to do.<P>I'm still smarting from the realization of what's been happening for so long, but there have been good times all along. Maybe H will really get his act together and maybe we'll be okay. Hmm. I'm trying to decide whether that is more or less likely than me hitting the lottery. <grin><P>NOTE TO BETH, HANORA, AND HANNAH: ICQ has a message archive plug-in. To get it, right mouse on a contact name, go to History>Advanced Find. You'll get a pop-up window telling you about the plug in. Be prepared for the worst when you log in, though. <P>Thanks, all. --HBC

HurtButCoping,<BR> <BR> Try to focus on the how's for fixing this instead of trying to find out too much.<BR> Honestly, I wish I didn't know as much as I do. It just hampers my ability to "fix" this mess!!<BR> I know it's hard, NO ONE is more analytical than me. BUT, in the beginning I did what you are doing. I just made me MAD, HURT and desperate. And I LB'ed all the time setting us even MORE backwards!<P> When I finally focused on what I DID to create the environment to allow the affair to happen instead of what W was doing, we started to see progress and although the steps have been "Baby Steps" we are heading in the right direction.<P> The hardest part I found was to admit MY FAULT in this. Don't get me wrong, I don't think ANYTHING I did could make me deserve this. <P> I FINALLY realized that the environment for an affair was created by BOTH of us and looking at it HONESTLY, I know it could have easily have been ME in the affair given the right circumstances not my W. She had a better access to it is all because I was working so many hours.<P> That was the hardest thing to admit to myself because of course given the pain I've gone through, I would NEVER put ANYONE through this!! OR, at least I'd like to think I'd be strong enough to overcome the temptation.<P> GOOD LUCK & PRAYERS FRANK<P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P>