So where do I go from here? I don't know whether this is progress.<P>Wife picked up kids down in San Diego (I go down there every weekend to have parenting time with my first kids). I wanted to ask her if I could take her to dinner. When she got there, OM was with her. So I didn't ask.<P>She drops the kids off today and I told her I wanted to take her out to dinner last night. She said if I would have asked her, she would have gone! With the OM there and everything! Course, I wouldn't have taken him.<P>I wonder if my admittedly flawed plan a is working?<P>What do y'all think?

It seems to me it is.. Are you sure she is just not trying to make you jealous???

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tootrusting:<BR><B>It seems to me it is.. Are you sure she is just not trying to make you jealous???</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Why do you say that?<P>

GP--<P>I don't know you guys, but is it possible that your wife was wanting attention (feeling jealous of #2, as it were) and is using OM to see if you "really care?" <P>What do you think? --HBC

I don't know. Her comment about #2 not being woman enough.<P>I think that OM is controlling her more than she realizes. He is always with her, even comes down when I pick up the kids from her. Like some kind of bodyguard or something.<P>I can't really say. It is always one step forward, then two steps back. We will see tonight when she picks up the kids.

I had forgotten that comment! That makes me think even more that she is insecure and wanting affirmation that she is #1 in your life. Does it seem possible that she is trying to say with her actions, "OM thinks I am the best. Don't you think I am the best?"<P>Again, I don't know you, but it does seem possible from what you've written in this forum.<P>As for OM, it sounds to me like he is either insecure in his relationship with your W and afraid you'll "steal" her back, or he is wanting to "protect" her from the evil situation she's in. (Please note my tongue firmly implanted in my cheek.) Either way (or if he is the controling person you believe), he is a surprisingly unimportant person in this situation. What matters is the relationship between you and your wife.<P>In any event, I wish you luck. Here's to two steps forward tonight! --HBC

That makes it difficult for me. Because sometimes I don't think she is the best. I really want her to come home, but I can not live with her the way she is. She has not gotten to the point where she has any remorse for what she has done. At least none that she has expressed to me. I asked her if it was worth it and she said the only regret she has is that "she does not see the kids enough." Of course, she is only using about 75% of the parenting time the court awarded her.<P>I don't want to punish her (most of the time) but I think that I need for her to have some sense of remorse before we can start a reconciliation.<P>

That does make it tough. How about this, then: Is the woman you married the best? Not the woman you're seeing now, but the woman you married X years ago.<P>I agree that you two can't have a good relationship unless she shows some remorse, but you might be putting the cart before the horse. That is, she might be unwilling to admit wrongdoing until she sees that she could have her old relationship back. You might have to start on the road to recovery before she lets you know how sorry she is.<P>It's a tough one, but you two have no chance of getting back together until one of you makes a step.<P>BTW, I haven't heard about W#2 for a while. Is she still in the picture? What's her take on all this? <P>Good luck! Wish me the same. --HBC

That is a good question. The woman I married is the one that I wannted to spend the rest of my life with. Even with all of her faults.<P>As far as making the next step, that has been a problem for years. I always have to make the next step. In 14 years, she never once initiated a conversation about our relationship, or how it was going, or her feelings at all. This is another issue that will have to change if we get back together. I just don't want to be guessing anymore.<P>Wife #2 is fine. I am keeping her informed as to what I am doing to try to get wife #1 back. She feels threatened somewhat, but also thinks that it would be the best thing for the family. I don't know how this will work out, but she has said she will step away if that is what she needs to do.<P>Funny, she still dreams about wife #1 almost every night. Usually good stuff, but sometimes we are kicking her out or the OM is moving in to replace her. <P>We shall see what happens.

GP:<P>Have you ever asked W#1 point blank if she is still okay with the arrangement you all have with W#2 being there? I know you all agreed to it at one point, but is W#1 happy with the way it's turned out?<P>Of course, before you ask her that question, you should consider what you would do if she said she wasn't happy. Would you be willing to go back to just you and W#1, or do you only want W#1 if W#2 is around? <P>Another tough choice, but one you should consciously make, not just let happen.<P>Again, good luck tonight. --HBC

Yes I did ask her this. She thinks that (lets switch to names here) Tiana has become to possesive of me and the children. She also feels that Tiana took my side when we were splitting up, and she holds that against her.<P>I posted on this board before that I would be willing to sever my relationship with Tiana if Larri were to come back. I am fairly comfortable with this decision. I know that this is a big risk on my part. What if Larri decides to leave again? Then the kids lose 2 of the three. Not a good thing for them.<P>Larri seemed surprised when I told her that Tiana dreams about her almost every night. Asked me what about. Further surprise when she said that most of them were good.<P>Tiana is also unsure of whether she wants the relationship to continue like it was. She says that she has been so hurt by Larri, that she does not know if she can stay here if Larri comes back.<P>What would I like? I would like us to be a family like we had been for the last almost 3 years. Is that wanting my cake and eating it, too? Yeah probably.<P>I am not dissatisfied with my life without Larri. Neither of us get enough time with the kids, and I would like us to live together for this purpose. This may not be in keeping with the MB principles, but I think that we have to go one step at a time. I am hoping to rebuild a relationship with her that is reciprocal and mature, which is something that we never had before. If the result is that Tiana has to leave, that is the way it has to be.<P>Now, does Tiana get visitation? <P>

Good question about the visitation! I'd prepare for one heck of a trial if it ever got to that!<P>Sorry, GP, I forgot you said you'd be willing to give up Tiana for Larri. Please forgive me--my brain is kind of full right now. Please refresh me--would you wait until Larri specifically asked Tiana to move on or was there another way that would come about? (I'm really not trying to be flippant, although that question sounds it. I'm trying to remember if you've mentioned that before.)<P>I can't imagine being in your shoes right now--too many choices. I think I would feel pulled from all sides. I wish you all the best, GP. Good luck. --HBC<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HurtButCoping:<BR><B>Please forgive me--my brain is kind of full right now. Please refresh me--would you wait until Larri specifically asked Tiana to move on or was there another way that would come about?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Now that one I haven't thought that far out. Right this moment, I don't think that Larri will move back in unless Tiana is out, if she has any desire to at all. I think that this is a long way off, anyway. And Tiana right now says that if Larri moves back in, she is going to leave. So I guess they have agreement between them. I'm the one in the middle.<P>We didn't get to talk about anything when she picked up the kids. They were around and Tiana wasn't here. She will probably show up with OM because his car was overheating and she needed to pick him up.<P>There is some more logistics stuff we need to talk about, anyway. Maybe we will get some time when she drops them off.<P>

Hey, you know what. You said that wife #1 is the one that you wanted to spend your life with. <P>Put your "money where your mouth is" and manage to get wife #2 out (respectfully of course) Stop confiding to her about your plans. Only tell "the one you want" what you WANT. <P>I am telling you this from my female perspective. It absoulutely (misspelled on purpose) makes me see "red" just thinking that my H is telling OP ANYTHING about me and the kids. I can much more tolerate anything physical (which i still do not know how much has gone on) The physical means so little to me because, hey we are "animals"<P>The talking....the sharing of ME is so much more intimate.;<P>I definately think she is jealous. Why play games. Just tell her what you want and "Just do it"!!!!!!!

Well, for me it is not that cut and dried. Tiana is the one that stood with the children while their mother walked out.<P>I still think that this will be a long process. And it may never happen. Meanwhile, my children have already lost too much in this deal. To take what amounts to their other mother (not second) from them is cruel.<P>I have told her what I want. I told her again this evening. She also knows the conditions. But I will not put my children's well being at risk

So this evening...very strange.<P>First, she calls an hour early to see if it is Ok that she picks up kids. I say of course. She comes to get them and we talk about nothing. Om calls and says his car is overheating and can she come and pick him up. She leaves with the kids to pick him up.<P>My phone rings at 7:00 (she is supposed to have the kids until 8:30). It is her. OM is not with her. She says that Steven wants to watch Mrs. Doubtfire. So the three of them sit down in my living room to watch the movie. She has only set foot in the apartment once since she left. Very strange.<P>I am doing dishes. I ask her if she wants some coffee. No. How about a Guinness? Can't refuse the Guinness. She takes the beer but stands next to me the whole time she is drinking it, rather than sitting with the kids. We talk about a few things, like what furniture she wants (nothing, funny last week this was a big sticking point) and some clothes that she is missing. OM calls twice at the beginning of the visit.<P>Tiana was out all this time. Tiana comes back, and they do not exchange any words, not even hello.<P>I finish the dishes and am outside having a smoke. She comes outside to leave. Says she will see me in a couple of days. I smile and she smiles back. I tell her I always liked it when she smiled. She starts crying. We exchange a few more words and she goes to leave. I follow and catch up to her as she is on the street walking to her car. She is talking to OM on her cell phone. I touch her shoulder and she stops. She tells OM to hang on a minute. I hug and give her a kiss and tell her I love her. Give her another kiss and tell her I will see her in a couple of days. She looks stunned, as if I had hit her over the head with an axe handle. I turn and walk back.<P>Only one downer. While we were talking, I asked her if she was taking other man to her sister's wedding next month. She said yes. I told her I was going to ask her if I could take her. She said that her sister did not want me there. Her sister did not want to chance a confrontation. What a f**ked up family. Would rather have an adulterer there with her new fling than a wife and her husband. Very strange to me.