Hi everyone,<BR>Here is Plan b letter.I have mixed feelings about doing this.Its seems like my last opportunity to make marriage work. I am scared.At least H emails me now.<BR>My Dear Dave,<P> I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that led you to date and correspond with other women. I foolishly and selfishly pursued my education, while neglecting your emotional needs. I was not there when you needed me. And now we suffering for my mistake.<BR> I am willing to make changes in my life and create a new life that will meet your needs. But I<BR>can not do that until you end your relationships with J------ , M------, and all other women once and for all.<BR> Until then I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. Arrangements will be made for you to visit the kids whenever you would like to. But I will not be home while you visit. If you want to communicate about the kids , or any other matter it will have to be through your sister Barb.<BR> I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you in this way. You must know the emotional pain I have endured because of your relationship with J------, M------, and other women, and I simply cannot be with you any longer. I still love you ,but I cannot see you under those conditions. <BR> As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from J------, M------, and other women, and are willing to follow measures to ensure a total separation, I will be able to discuss our future together. <BR> I want to rebuild our marriage someday .I want us to be able to meet each others emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do will make us both happy. Then there will never be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend ,and to be there for you when you need me. And I want you as a best friend.<BR> I loved you when we married and continue to love you today. I just cannot be with you as long as your relationship continues with J------, M------, and other women. <BR> With my love, <BR> Beth<BR>Please give feedback

Bethn,<P>Stop and think about things before you move forward. In my opinion you have not been in Plan A long enough. It seems like you have only started Plan A. If that is not true, then tell me. <P>Remember, in order for Plan B to work you have to have done a very good job with Plan A. In Plan B he has to remember what he is missing. You have to in Plan B suddenly cut him off from the sexy, compassionate, loving, caring, person that he wants you to be. Remember the EN's...he has to see that you are and were working on his EN's. You had to show him without a doubt that what he sees in you is what he wants even though its is clouded with the OW. Plan B will make him think about you. You must be sure that what he thinks about is what he wants and you must do the best job possible providing that before you move into Plan B. If you are starting to loose your love you may have to consider Plan B. I think that not enough time has gone by for that to happen<P>Stop and ask yourself if you have done the best Plan A possible otherwise Plan B is likely to fail.<P>Love and Prayers!!!<P>J W

JW<P>To tell you the truth his separation from me has been a big LB.I feel numb inside.I felt like we couldve worked things out as long as he was here .But I am wondering even if he left OW would he even consider me.One plus of plan b is to let main OW know that she is not the only OW.Maybe she will get smart.

bethn...I am sorry, I don't know all the ins and outs of your story, but I couldn't help but whince when you aplogized for persuing an education. Is getting an education reason for your S to have an affair? You have nothing to aplogize for because you wanted to better yourself.<P>I hope you find the strength to be strong and get through this. My prayers and thoughts are with you.<P>LS<BR>

Honey, are you sure about this???<P>I've got to agree with J Willy, you haven't implemented a solid Plan A for very long at all - certainly not long enough to change his perception of you and the marriage. Plan B is not a back and forth thing, Beth. Once you're there, in order to remain credible, you have to stay there. And if you thought Plan A was hard.....<P>It's your decision - only you know when you've had enough. Of course the seperation was a big lb! All they know how to DO is lovebust when they're in the middle of this thing. You can't expect anything from him that even slightly resembles reasonable behavior!<P>Do me a favor, just think about it. For a few more days. We told you from the start that for a long time, it's all up to you, ya know? And a lot of us have endured separations and come out as winners, Plan Aing the whole time. Plan B has a few success stories too, but please remember. The FIRST purpose of Plan B is for you - NOT TO GET YOUR HUSBAND BACK!!! THAT CAN BE A BY-PRODUCT AT TIMES, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT IT'S FOR. It's to protect what love you have left for him from being beaten to death by lovebusters, it's to wean YOU with no contact in case divorce is inevitable. Occasionally, we've found that the wayward spouse "realizes" what he misses, but it's not likely to happen if he's in the throes of the affair and not likely to happen if you haven't had some time with a good solid Plan A.<P>Is this what Steve advised so soon?? Surprising to me. I know he's advised a number of separated spouses to continue in Plan A after a lot more time than this and with a bit of success. Hmmmmm...oh, well, Honey, you do what you need to do. But think hard...this is a BIGGGGGGGG step.<P>Love and prayers.<P>Lori

Hi L & JW,<BR>Right now I feEl Like crawling in a whole and and dying.Ithink there is love there somewhere for H but I dont know if it is enough to do a good plan A.I miss H,but I am getting tired of this.I dont know How I can deal with OW coming.How can you work on plan A whenH isnt intersted and I dont know if he ever will be,I disgust him ,thatis the way he acted before he left.My weight went up to 276 last summer.I weigh 210 now,but being so overweight has left body ugly.I have asked H to call me.Expecting call any minute soon.Tempted to tell him I love him.bethn

PS willgive it a few days to think about it.

Lori (and everyone else):<P>One of my standard "lines" is to go get counseling with Steve. One of the things Steve will do is to check on the status of the marriage, but another issue he deals with is where the betrayed spouse is in the process. If Steve has indicated to bethn that she ought to be moving to plan B; it's probably because she's not going to be able to take much more of Plan A before going straight to a divorce. Just my $0.02...<P>Beth: The only suggestion that I have for you is to affirm your love for Dave and state your commitment to the marriage at the start of the note. If you have been in Plan A for any time, you also can include what you would think are indications that you CAN change your life and behaviors to make the marriage a better place (do this right after the apology).<P>Plan B was the most terrible, hardest, scariest thing I ever did. I left my wife and two kids. But I did decide early on in my counseling with Steve that HE was the expert---and that if I tried to wing things on my own, I'd probably screw up. When I followed his advice, good things usually happened.<P>Your husband has already left, so it's unclear how effective any more plan A will be at this point, with your limited contact. My guess is that Steve feels you need to protect your love for him by ending this contact. Good luck---whichever way you decide (and you can always sit on this for a while, and discuss it with Steve again---I know I did).

K,<BR>Good advice on letter.Got to go to work .Would like to contiue discussion after .bethn

K does have good advice - I usually find I agree with him.<P>I missed your post that said Steve recommended Plan B at this point. Is that because he felt you couldn't handle anymore? Not questioning his decision, he's the professional - just curious.<P>Plan A can be effective after a spouse moves out - sometimes it's our only choice b/c we didn't have enough time in it BEFORE they left. I'm proof of that.<P>But Steve has the opportunity to talk with you and see where you're coming from, plus tons of experience. I've found I've respected his advice to others a great deal. Please don't hesitate to discuss any reservations you may have when you run that Plan B letter by him. <P>Good luck, Honey.<P>Lori

Please wait awhile before you send the letter. I know how tempting it is to try to gain some form of control over this craziness that has become your life but lease give plan A a little more time. Let him have his space but still be there if and when he needs you. I know that is an awful lot to put up with and if someone had told me a few years ago I'd be doing that I'd have said they were crazy. You do need to set up guide lines for yourself. Only you can decide how much you can take. You have spent 19 years taking care of your H, raising your family, working and going to school. Now it's time to work on yourself. Start doing things that make you happy. When I look back on the 2 mos that my H was gone I see it now as a learning experience. I missed him terribly and the rejection was hell but I learned so much about myself and what I wanted and needed out of life. <BR> He's only been gone for a few days and the pain is immense but you really need to think about sending this letter right now. Wait and see how things look next week. This can't and won't be fixed overnight.<P>I'm so sorry for the pain you are feeling right now. I'm here if you need me.<P>Jill

Thanks Lori and Jill,<P>I appreciate the time and Support both of you offer.I know this is silly but in my head I think I should follow Steve advice bcause maybe God is speaking thru them.Got company willreturn

Lonely Soul,<P>Itwas not only my pursuit of education.Just before H's affairs we hardly had sex,no affection,little conversation( I was studying <BR>for tests etc. he was on the computer).We were trying to pay bills so we had no recreation.I worked 12 hour shifts on the weekend,so I could go to classes and study during the week.H was off on the weekends.Because I had to get A's to go to nursing school,I studied all the time when I wasnt working.H had responsibility of house,meals, and raising boys.I Have been going to school,or school and working since 1993.Hope you get a better picture,I put career and school above all else,and neglected family,which I am dearly paying for now.beth<BR>ps THe irony of it all is that I quit nursing school 2 semesters before getting my degree,to prove to H that Iwas going to put him first.

Jill,<BR>I am feeling better tonite.H is returning calls but very business like. He does not initiate any contact with me.Iam feeling like I can go on in plan A.Just wish I had a cystal ball. H is pushing me to get a separate account ,I suppose so he can close joint one.I cant tell you how much your words of encouragement mean to me.bethn<BR>PS parents here from out of town,they want me to give up.

OK, here's my take.<P>First, don't pay attention to your family, friends, etc. They simply want the hurting to stop for you - admirable, but not necessarily the best advice. Got the same thing from my family. Robert's sister even called me to tell me he was finally happy and it was time to move on with my life and leave him alone!! Well, my darlin', she was wrong and now she's a great friend and one of our biggest supporters!!! Family and friends mean well, but generally are pretty clueless. Not always, but lots of times. It just HURTS them to see someone they love hurting and, quite honestly, they head straight for the quickest, easiest solution, not necessarily the BEST one. They also have done very little research into the dynamics of this situation. WE all know these things rarely last.<P>Hey, look at it this way. Read a great article on infidelity once (wish I had saved it). Anyway, here's the gist of it. Go back 50 years. Marriages were forever. Fact of the matter is, even though our DIVORCE rate is higher, the occurrance of infidelity is really not. In fact, for males, it was actually expected for hundreds of years. BUT....men did not leave their families, women did not ask for a divorce because it was scandalous! (and they weren't allowed for a long time.) Anyway, the spouses were STUCK. So what happened? The betrayed were forced to "wait it out" and the WS was forced, eventually, to "work it out"! Lots of marriage 50 years or more simply exist (and in many cases now THRIVE) because there was NO OTHER OPTION but to wait and work it out! Now, it's too easy. We can run away to lick our wounds and they can jump into a relationship that has a 2% chance of surviving. I'm not sure that this "freedom" is necessarily a good thing. I know of several older folks, crazy in love with each other, who years and years ago stayed together only because they had to - anything else was socially unacceptable and would have ruined them forever!!! A number of long-term spouses were interviewed in the article as well and they all said the same thing! And they all said they were glad they did!<P>I read your post to Jim. And his reply to your other thread. Finally, I have a clue, I think, maybe, somewhat, uhhhhhhh <P>OK, I know you've been going through hell for months now. But, from what I can gather, you hadn't really found a "Plan A" groove for a long long time, right? I mean, there were still lovebusters pretty frequently? Up until VERY recently, if memory serves me. So, not a good solid Plan A. (And yes, no matter what the pain, it IS possible to do a solid Plan A, just takes a lot of resolve and strength.) <P>Sooooooo, you're tired and "over it". The stress has gotten to you and you are waffling about what you really need to do. Ok, everyone who hasn't been there, done that, raise their hands. Oops, no hands. See, Sweetie, we do understand that part. It's pure toment sometimes. No one can blame you, your emotions are real and valid and JUSTIFIED. But...they're also transient. We betrayed do our share of waffling too, even when we really try to guard against it! This is hard work, emotional turmoil and it's HARD not to get frustrated, discouraged, angry, sad, lonely, etc......want to run away, crawl in a hole and die - ANYTHING to end the pain!<P>I went back and followed some of your posts. You should do the same. Look at how many times, just like all the rest of us, you go back and forth between being ready to fight for this and giving up!! Our emotions are back and forth all OVER the place!! Can't help it. First step, I think, is recognizing this so that each bad day isn't a signal to our brain to give up! We just know that we're having a "moment" and, this too, will probably pass! Makes those bad days easier to weather.<P>Oh, back to the subject. So my guess is that you talked w/ Steve on a really bad day. He felt that you had had all you could take, so he advised Plan B, like Jim said, to protect you and possibly prepare you for a divorce. You haven't had enough time in a good solid Plan A to change his impression of you and the marriage (and no, he won't TELL you when it happens, but it can happen). So Plan B as a means to shake some sense into him (which isn't the primary goal anyway) would be pretty much useless.<P>Like Jim says, Steve makes recommendations. He's smart and he's good and I believe in his wisdom. But he'll advise according to what you say to him! I'd be willing to bet if you had talked with him on a GOOD day when you were full of confidence and fight (I've seen you have a few of those) he'd have been a great cheerleader for you and encouraged you to continue Plan A, even after separation! Wouldn't have been the first time he's done it!<P>So, pretty much, it's up to you. What you can handle. None of us can tell you what to do, just how we feel from our own experiences. <P>Now, on the the "account" thingy. Robert changed his address for his mail. Took the registrations for the 2 vehicles we had agreed he could "have" and changed the registrations from both names to his only at PT's address. Opened joint bank accounts for him and PT. PT taught her wee one to call him "Daddy" (she's never met her real father). Can you imagine how I felt, while on the phone with him, when I heard Leah say "Daddy, Daddy, c'mere, I LOVE you!" She is 3. He wasn't even CALLING our daughter and taking almost sole care of PT's. Saw a lawyer about adopting Leah after their marriage. Cold? He said he wished I were dead. Couldn't stand the sight of me. Our entire marriage had been a mistake, he had never really loved me like he should. OK, so now we realize that it was the alien talking, a sympton of the stress and the affair. He is MORTIFIED by his behavior during this thing and, for the life of him, can't figure out what happened to him. Same with yours, you know?<P>Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that his behavior CANNOT be the reason for any decision that you make. Look, Plan A is about you - 90% of it is about YOU! Sure, you look at your marriage and see what mistakes you may have made and you try to correct them. AND you don't lovebust! (I was upset, he was mean, no excuses!!! OK, I'll admit, I had one bad weekend, but that's not bad! And I didn't really talk to him, just wrote him two horrible letters in the middle of the night! Would've been fine except I mailed the darned things at like 4 in the morning! Wouldn't have been so bad except that he stopped by that weekend, noticed how great I really was and went back and told his brother he really thought he should think about coming home!!! THEN he got the letters. Ahhh, the power of an LB. Set us back a couple of months!)<P>See how blessed long-winded I get when I'm on a roll!! Sorry. Anyway, so don't make a decision today. Work on a real Plan A. Your appearance bothers you...work on it. (I know, I know, easier said than done, but every step you make, every action you take, makes you stronger and more self-assured!) Have you read Gabrielle's post when her h finally NOTICED how hard she was working on herself and talked about how great she looked! Not that you're doing this for him, but hey, what a nice by-product!<P>Take a walk, buy a tape and work out - just a few minutes. Makes you strong, makes you healthy, gives you energy, restores your self-confidence and releases those great endorphins or whatever in your brain that actually COMBAT depression - just like meds do, just takes a bit longer!<P>Take control of yourself and YOUR life. That's Plan A, Honey. Reach deep inside yourself and become everything you're capable of being. I don't really believe that people can fundamentally "change". But I DO believe that when we all look inside ourselves, we find that we're capable of and consist of much more than we ever dreamed. Plan A will help you find that. In the meantime, while treating yourself better and growing (had enough of that danged "personal growth" stuff to last a lifetime!! ), you'll find it's not so hard to treat him well. In fact, you'll find your love for him becomes different, more real, more solid. As you look at yourself as someone you like and respect, you'll begin to see the things about your H that you like and respect as well. You become more able to see past the fog. You'll be amazed at the changes in your heart and mind. And the peace you will find.<P>Yeah, I'm a real Plan A advocate. I REALLY like the person that I've become. I thought I was ok before...don't feel that way anymore. Strange thing is, might never have happened without this mess. I may never have realized how cool I could be, ya know? (Not bragging, just WHAT a difference!!) And even if he had never come home, I'm SOOOO glad I didn't give up. I learned so much about myself, found so much of myself, I'd have been fine, no matter what.<P>But I got a bonus. He DID come home. And do you know what happened? He didn't start talking to his family about how much he loved me. Told him mom months ago "I really am fascinated with the person that Lori is turning into - she's great. I LIKE her a lot!)'Course then he had to get past the doubts about these "changes" being permanent! He was scared we'd go right back to what we had before. Not a chance! Alone or with him, I was much happier with myself now.<P>Do you know that he never ever talked to me about coming home or our marriage until the day he ASKED if I'd have him back? He never even told me he loved me until we had a date set for him to return. Last night, I was the most wonderful woman in the world, he loves me "to pieces" and he can't imagine life without me. He's truly blessed that I was "so strong" and never gave up on me or him and he'll never take what we have with each other for granted again. I could go on and on. Never HAD so much affection and reassurance - even at the beginning of our relationship. He's grown too through all this. We're not just gonna be fine, we're gonna be great!<P>So, Honey, after all these words, do what YOU need to do. But think carefully. It's a big step that will affect the rest of your life. We'll support you - no matter what. Even me, the Plan A nut!!!<P>Love and prayers,<P>Lori

One thought:<P>Beth, did Steve say that he thought it was time for you to "deliver" a Plan B letter, or that it was time to prepare one? I had mine prepared in advance (I want to say a month or so) before delivery?<P>I agree that if you feel that you can do the Plan A, stick with it. Discuss this with Steve, and get his insight to why he may have wanted you to prepare for Plan B. He's just a phone call away...<P>

Lori, TRying to print your response.Dont have time to read,parents here and neice,will read ASAP,APPRECIATE YOU HANGING IN HERE WITH ME!!!!!!!!!bethn

Hi Bethn - Listen to Lori!!!<P>I completely agree that Steve only told you Plan B because of the "day" you were having......You will fare much better in Plan A - I believe!!! You just need to really do a good one!! <P>Lori - can you copy that post to BC for me PLEASE......Lora could probably use it also!!!!! I don't have computer - just this dang webtv and I don't know how to copy paste (or even if I can!!)<P>Thanks Hon!!!!<P>HUGS to all,<P>Sheba

K iam late for work.Steve told me to deliver it.bethn

Sheba,<P>aam I strong enough todo effective plan A.Even with OW moving here .H's relationship wiil turn from EA toPA IM sure.YUCH!!!!!!<P>Parents are encouraging Legal advice to protect children and self,BIG LB.What do you think?bethn