So, here I am again, shouldn't be here, major love-buster, but I don't care anymore. It's like each time we talk, things escalate into a major fight, and then things hit the wall and it pushes us further toward the ultimate conclusion: divorce. <P>The fight this weekend was about the church he's attending, the girl that goes there that he can't, by his own admission, "get out of his heart and head", but I'm the stupid one for wanting him (and me with him for that matter) to go to another church. The fight ended with the usual: talk of divorce, him sleeping on the floor in the bedroom, him telling me to go ahead and spill my guts here (on MB) like I always do (said very sarcastically!). He says I trash him, and that you all think I'm wonderful because you don't really know me and what a b1tch I can be. He says I lie to him, am not honest about my feelings, so he has to snoop on me, including reading what I post here. Well, since I helped him open his account here and told him about the place, that's not really snooping, is it? I've thought of leaving this board(3 times, as my friend airheart will tell you) and I've thought of changing my name so that he can't read what I say and hold it against me. It seems futile and stupid to me.<P>You guys have no idea how much I wish we could begin again. That <B>is</B> why I chose my name (new beginning). Yeah, well I'm getting my wish, huh? I'm getting a <B>whole</B> new beginning, with <B>someone else</B> or maybe just <B>me alone</B>. That, of course, remains to be seen. <P>So, I don't know if there's something in the water, or the time of year, or my stupid mind which is about to explode, but I've never felt such love and hate crammed into the same head before. I keep thinking that maybe my H will fight for me. He won't. He says I'm not fighting for him, just saying the good words to you guys. I don't even trust myself or my feelings anymore. I thought I was working really hard to hold on to my marriage. I thought that my shame and guilt were totally obvious since I was crying 24/7, sicker than a dog, and begging him for forgive me mattered. It didn't. It doesn't. <P>In the meantime, he says he's trying to find the Lord again. In theory, it's nice, but the church he's chosen, with that woman there, and him not letting me get involved or go with him... well, what would you think?<P>Again, tonight he said that his feelings for these woman (there have been a handful over the years) meant nothing, and that my affair meant everything that he can't get over. <P>I wish I had $10,000. Then I could afford to get out of here with my kids, my dogs, my cats... get away from him, from the OM, from my job, this life here. <P>And also right now, I'm awaiting the results for the end of the STD tests I took last week, just for my piece of mind. I had the syphilis and HIV test, and nobody (not the Doc, the GYN, or my H) is worried that I have it - so why am I so afraid, I was only with the OM once...easy for them to say, it's nerve-wracking, to say the least (waiting for the results). I'm a wreck.<P>If my H reads this he will be very angry, like I said. But, who am I suppose to talk to? I keep trying to leave here, but I can't seem to because I need you guys. I need your support and input. I am suppose to see a counselor next week, I am on Xanax, have kept up with all my medical tests, and the only thing I'm doing that's really bad for my health is eating way too much lately. Really bad for the colon. Stuffing my problems and maybe men won't look at me and then I can die a big fat ugly cow. <P>Big-time vent. If nobody reads this or replies, it's okay... because I just needed to do it one way or the other.<P><P>------------------<BR>The good life is a process, not a state of being. It is a direction, not a destination.<BR>-Carl Rogers<P>

I'm too screwed up to offer you any decent advice tonight except take a deep breath and let it out slowly...<BR>I agree with you tho... this has definately got to be one of the hardest things to go through. It really bites to say the least.<BR>As for his reactions, keep in mind that he is pretty unstable right now (well, I can only guess) and as hard as it is, we must keep in mind that this is only temporary...<BR>Pain almost always leads to growth and if you two can remain committed and keep your heads together (riding the roller coaster together) and get through this, you'll come out stronger than ever! (that's what I keep telling myself)<BR>We can't be as perfect as God, or Jesus, but we can try. And if we can't forgive yet, at the very least we should try to be kind to each other. No point in even going to church if we aren't going to try to live according to His rules... right?<BR>I'm sending you some serious thoughts of stregnth right now...<BR>Deut<BR>

Thanks Deut,<P>I wonder how late is it where you are? I'm sitting here at 1:32 am, like I have no actual life. H asleep on the floor in the bedroom. Me, wide awake with the retinas of my eyes burning out from computer staring disease. Somebody slap me!<BR><P>------------------<BR>The good life is a process, not a state of being. It is a direction, not a destination.<BR>-Carl Rogers<P>

Hi Sheryl,<BR> First the slap <<<SLAP>>>> then a big hug {{{{{{{{{{{{{{NB}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<BR> Boy, what can I say? It's funny, I was GLAD when I got the chance to JUST sleep on the floor next to my W 2 weeks ago. And your H.... It's funny how life is!!! Well, not funny, but, ironic I guess. <BR> I really think things will get better for you guys. God needs to open your H's spirit to forgive you. This OchurchW must be his way of an even score or something. He sounds soooooo hurt still. I know it doesn't sound FAIR but that male ego thing. it's TOUGH!! I think it's harder for a man to forgive this, that's why you see less success stories from betrayed H. I think deep down their W's know this and aren't as courageous as you are.<BR> All you (we) can keep doing is praying for God to help your H forgive. I know you have. But, the ego thing ya know?? Love & prayers FRANK

{{{{{{{{{{<B>Sheryl</B>}}}}}}}}}},<P>I have to get going to Church now...<P>But... I will be back aroung 2PM ET...<P>I'll give you more encouragement... <P> a bit for me....<P>(I got a nasty e-mail from my W this AM....<BR>but let's talk about you when I get back!)<P>Jim...

Hey Sheryl.<P>I'm so sorry you're feeling this way. <P>And it's good you can come here and let it out. I would hope that he DOES read these things. He needs to be aware of what YOU'RE going through - LB or not.<P>I don't have any advice for you. You're trying so hard. I'm gonna give this some thought though. Still may not have any!!!<P>Take care of yourself today, ok? And remember, I'm thinking of you and praying for you.<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{Sheryl}}}}}}}}}}}}<BR>Lori

It was like.... 3:30am...<BR>yeep<BR>I too am rushing out to church...<BR>Why does God have to get up so... early?<BR>(blurry grin)<BR>Deut

Warning, just about nothing I'm going to say is positive....<P>First, I know what it is like to be married to someone who acts hypocrital. The "do as I say, not as I do" type. It is very frustrating. His inability to forgive you is not about YOU. Just like your affair was not about HIM. Groveling and begging now will get you nowhere except lower and lower self-esteem. <P>TO NEW BEGINNING HUSBAND: Your wife can't read your mind! If you have something to say, you are perfectly welcome to come here too! If she is telling the truth about this woman at church, though, you know what everyone here is going to say. You have to leave that church, or that woman has to leave.

Sheryl -- We are here to be a shoulder(or shoulders) to lean on when you can't get H to provide it. I really emphathize with where you are at, tho we are a little beyond it here.<P>Your H really needs counseling. I know, it's been said before, but it really looks to me like down deep, he doesn't want to hurt you, but he is massively confused and doesn't know how to straighten out.<P>He's really looking for you to lead him, but then when you do, he's not satisfied. Maybe it's time for Medic's new approach.<P>e-hugs to ya, girl, and <B>stop</B> the excessive eating. Come here to get the frustrations out. You could never be a "big, fat, ugly cow" because you are too beautiful on the inside where it counts. And good men would just see thru the exterior, anyway. So you're not going to accomplish anything by stuffing yourself. You cannot disguise who and what you really are....

Aw NB. It's a tough road.<P>My H told me that if I wanted someone else (meaning the male friend I have) he wants me to do that and he'll let me go. I "angry outbursted" and said that instead of letting me go, he should fight for me, remain steadfast as I have this past year and a half. That no matter what he said to me or when he was seeing her that I never gave up. <P>Don't you just wish you could make it all right without starting completely over? I do.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Do not get tired of doing what is right, for after awhile you will reap a harvest of blessings if you do not get discouraged and give up. (Gal 6:9)<P><BR>

Sheryl, my friend, it sucks sometimes !<BR>Did you write him? Did it have any effect?<BR>I'm leaving now, but I'll be back later I'll e-mail you then.<BR>For now try this: Grab all those things going around and around in your head, all those feelings from anger to discouragement. Put them on freeze. Now breathe deep and think about something you would really like to do today if things were perfect. Then do it . Think about yourself, and what makes you fell good.Forget about H and marriage,and worries and pain, for one minute and just think about what sheryl would like to do today.You're still exausted. <BR>Think about it this way. This situation will have to end at one point, regardless of the outcome. You alreaday did so much to work on it, now it's break time. It won't make any difference at this point and both of you do need the break. You need to recharge.<BR>Talk to ya later <BR>Kat<P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

First off, my H read this, as I knew he would, and he finally figured out again how to post, so he has: his name is 3wishes. Go read what he has to say. <P>I'm still very angry, my head hurts, but I want to respond to each of you. One general statement: I can't win here. Last night at some point my H told me something I'd said during the week that really upset him. Here it is: (well, with a bit of history first). Last week, the OM was gone from work because his common-law W was having a hyterectomy. It was peace on earth not to have him there. My H usually hates to come to my job, or loves it, depending on how you look at it, all depending on his feeling re: OM at the time. Anyway, he took me to lunch one day and of course, didn't have to worry about running into OM, which I thought was a good thing. I said, at lunch, that it had been so nice and peaceful without OM at work, and that I'd looked at two openings for possible transfer, but one was a step up (have to compete with general population) and one was a step down (less pay, but could transfer right over). Last night he said that this coversation just "brought it all up again" and I keep bringing up the OM, like that time. <sigh><P><B>Frank</B><P>Thanks for the slap, I needed that! I'm sick of the male ego thing. and big hugs back at ya!<P><B>NSR</B>,<P>Somehow through all of this, it's gotten in my H's head that I don't love the Lord (because I hate that church with a passion). I could go into the past church experience, but that would probably take up three pages. That's the place where I was the church secretary, we went for five years, and the pastor "feel in love" with me, but nothing happened except that my mind got all screwed up. He abused his power, and I stupidly thought he loved me in "that Christian way"... my H did confront him, and it did get ugly, and I was in the middle and it was a mess. I have visited churches since, and joined an Episcopal church with a woman minister. I haven't gone for a year, but I did contact her last week and we're gonna talk this week. I miss God.<P><B>Lori</B>,<P>Love and big hugs! I'll try for that good day!<P>Hey again <B>Deut</B>,<P>Hope you had a lovely spiritual experience at church! How'd ya do that on four hours of sleep?<P><B>The Student</B>,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>First, I know what it is like to be married to someone who acts hypocrital<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Let me tell you. This week he told me I'm not allowed to cuss if we stay together. Last night he actually said something about working his "[censored]" off... ooops, then he corrected and said "butt". I'm 40 fricken years old and I love to let 'em rip occasionally, used to never cuss, and truthfully, have been way too much lately, but there are times it fits. And he is in the garage right this second blaring Christian music (hymns) as he gets ready to go to THAT church.<P>Re: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If she is telling the truth about this woman at church, though, you know what everyone here is going to say. You have to leave that church, or that woman has to leave.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I said to my H, did you read the replies to my post? He said yes, and I reread what you wrote here. He said "uh huh" and off he goes to church. There you have it. <P><B>Heartpain,</B><P>Did you know I used to weigh 300 pounds and that I've lost 100 pounds or so in the last year? The only thing I can say is that if I'm fat like I was before, nobody will look at me. And that seems to be the way it goes for real.Although I weighed about 245 when the OM approached me. But still, I feel sick and I hate myself. I also bit my nails off, so I'm a pretty picture right now. Thank you for the kind words though. Yeah, Medic's approach is a good one, but I'm so talkative and things do seem to pop out of my mouth. Plus, I'm kinda past the point of caring anymore. I hate this.<P><B>Lor</B>,<P>Re: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Don't you just wish you could make it all right without starting completely over? I do.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Me too. Lord, me too. But it isn't gonna happen.<P><B>Hi Kat!!</B><P>Yes, the situation has to end, one way or another. I hope I live that long, because I feel like I'm dying a thousand deaths! Love you!<P><B>everyone</B>,<P>you are my brothers and sisters, my family. I love you guys!<P>PS, I had to edit <B>twice</B> for gramatical reasons, so sorry. Words didn't change, but I missed some things that drive me batty, like putting [quote} on one end and [/b] on the other.... <P>------------------<BR>The good life is a process, not a state of being. It is a direction, not a destination.<BR>-Carl Rogers<P>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited December 05, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited December 05, 1999).]

Your story sounds very similar to mine, with H saying he can't trust me and yes i am a betrayer too.(Once) which was something I now realize was wrong but after all the years of being betrayed myself over and over.<BR>I wanted to see what it was like. No I didn't move in with OP, desert my family or make my son watch this. My betrayal only lasted 4 days and it is now over. I am awaiting test results myself so I understand how difficult all of this is.When H and I have tried to talk we end up fighting too. So last time I called him at work he said"dont call me again" communicate through the attorneys so I guess we have no choice.<BR>My H is depressed still or at least he looks that way, he told me it was life threatening for him to stay in the marriage. Well guess what, he told me hes not any better. I am mostly sad because of a long marriage ending, it feels like death but life goes on and I am getting mostly support and its great to vent here.One thing does help is God and his people, I get that verified everytime I go to church. You are in my prayers new beginning, in a way all of us here are looking for that new beginning in our lives here. <P>------------------<BR>joanne<BR>

Ok... Sheryl, I'm back...<P>I just responded to your David's post... not knowing it was your H... asking for some clarification... I hope it comes... (I'll be sending him a link back here too.)<P>Hey... Sheryl... ...<P>You know what... <B>God misses you too!</B> Loves you too!<BR>Doesn't care if your a 100 pounder or 500 pounder...<BR>Doesn't care if you bit off your nails and fingers an arms too...<BR>Doesn't care about how much you eat...<BR>Doesn't care if you reconcile your marriage...<BR>Doesn't care if you divorce...<BR>Doesn't care if you Love Bust....<BR>Doesn't care if you cuss...<P>You know what He cares about... it's <B>YOU</B>! it's <B>David</B>!<P>When David (3wishes... my friend in Christ) remembers this is why Christ came into the world... to save sinners... to accept all repentant... to show unconditional love to us and ask for unconditional love between each oter... maybe <B>this</B> Christmas season can mean just little bit more to him...<P>Look, you <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busted</A>... Tell me... did Peter ever love bust Jesus (denying 3 times?)... did the other apostles love bust (leaving Him on the cross?)... did they ever bicker (who is the greatest?)...<P>Were they ever forgiven?... was it not 7X70 times?...<P>There is a reason for "new_beginning" you may be missing... After Christ's death... was there not the ultimate "new beginning" of the resurrection? The ultimate act of saving us?<P><B>David(3wishes)</B>... is this the faith you have?... striving for? Is anything touching you here?...<P>I know this is Sheryl's thread... I'll repeat this in your's later...<P>If the love Jesus proclaims to us, is to be part of our lives... our beings... our souls... can you in all honesty to the Lord... say that this woman, Sheryl speaks of, is not having a spiritually unhealthy effect on you... and even more so on Sheryl...<P>Your choice as a christian is to follow the beatitudes....<P>Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.<BR>Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.<P>Act in God's presence... Comfort Sheryl...<BR>Work in God's sight... Find peace with Sheryl...<BR>Sheryl too... can be <B>your</B> comforter... <B>your</B> sign of peace...<BR>Don't push her away...<P><B>David</B>...<BR>For you (and Sheryl...) I have <B>3 wishes</B>... <BR>Open your hearts and minds to forgiveness...<BR>Open your ears to His word... unfettered by people intruding into His spirit...<BR>Open your souls... to let His blessings pour in...<P>From...<BR>A friend in Christ...<BR>A friend of Sheryl's...<BR>and I hope... some day... a friend of yours... <P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited December 05, 1999).]

NB: I don't know what to comment right now. I'm going to go to your H's Post to read it. You have always been so nice to me and replied to my Posts. I just wanted you to know that I am here and am listening. Hugs to you.....

<B>Joanne</B>,<P>Thank you for your thoughts and understanding. Is your H <B>divorcing</B> you about this only?? Or is he saying there are other problems, or what? I'm so sorry!<BR>Also, big prayers for both our test results!<P><BR><B>Jim</B>,<P>As soon as David gets home I'll make sure he'll read the post you left him, which will, of course, lead him here. You're a sweetie, and yes, I know God loves me, and thankfully mercy was made for people like me: totally undeserving.<P><B>No Trust</B>,<P>Thank you for thinking of me, and for responding. How are you?<P><P>------------------<BR>The good life is a process, not a state of being. It is a direction, not a destination.<BR>-Carl Rogers<P>

Hi Sheryl,<P>I'm so sorry you're having such a bad day. I hope that you feel a little better by posting here. We know. We can all feel your pain. So, hopefully, that will help lighten your load. <P>Forgivenesss is so essential, yet why is it so hard? I read something recently about forgiveness that surprised me. It said that forgiveness is a decision, not a feeling. I had never thought of it that way before. What a revelation! It makes sense that if we think of it as a feeling, it will probably always be elusive. Why? Because we have little control over our feelings. But, if you think of it as a choice, well, now, that's something we can do something about. Something we have control over! <P>Now, what might make one want to choose to forgive? There are no doubt a million different answers and they are no doubt different for everyone. Here's where your work begins. <P>Right now, you're simply in a tug of war, a power struggle. You and your H are going to have to sit down and determine together what it will take for each of you to choose to forgive. I would suggest that each of you make out a list of things that you consider very important to you, then prioritize them, maybe on a scale of 1 -3 (1 being Extremely Important, 2 being Very Important, 3 being Kind of Important). These should be actions or behaviour that the other can do which would make your choice to forgive much easier. <P>Next, you're going to have to put your skills for compromise into effect. Perhaps, there is something Extremely Important to you on your list, but your H does not think he can do it. Like him not going to that church. Okay, you concede that one. Now, look at his list. Can you agree to do the first Extremely Important item on his list? Maybe, yes. Now back to your list. You've already agreed to do something to help him make the choice to forgive. It's his turn. Perhaps, your next one is for you to escort him to the church. See, what I'm getting at. It has to be give and take. If he sees that you are giving up some things, while agreeing to do the ones important to him, then it will be much easier for him to do what you need. <P>Maybe there are things on each of your lists that are marked as Extremely Important and the other one has no problem in doing them. Okay, now you've made some real points with your spouse and it's costing you little if anything. Other items will definitely come at a price. But, you'll be willing to pay if you feel like your spouse is doing the same for you, in another way.<P>I would suggest that, if throughout this exercise, you feel like it's getting heated or emotional, that each of you has the right to call a timeout. Before it escalates into a fight. Take a breather, with the understanding that you will get back together at another agreed upon time.<P>It might take some time to get through this, but it will be well worth the effort if you both agree to keep your end of the deal.

<B>sidney</B>,<P>Thank you for the thought-provoking post. Under "normal" circumstances, I would agree with all that you say. At this point, I have no desire to discuss it with my H. He went to church today, stayed late, did a job somewhere else (and he's not suppose to work <B>at all</B> on weekends (he's a workaholic) and then comes breezing in here expecting everyone to be happy, especially me. He says he talked to a friend or two about our problems, but he doesn't tell them the exact truth, at least not all of it, and makes it sound like I'm jealous of some unknown woman at the church and he has <B>no idea</B> why. Does he tell them what he's told me - about his heart and mind belonging to her? Then they ask him to lunch and he says no because I might get mad and things will get worse. <B>Not</B>, "gee, I can't today, I should get home and spend time with my family - NO! Sorry, Sid, you're kinda getting my vent for the day. <P>Frankly, I am <B>sick to death</B> of this whole thing. He did mention that <B>she</B> wasn't at church and I should be happy about it. Hey, when I said the OM wasn't at work, you remember what happened, right? Oh brother... I've had it up to here! (hand at top of head!)<P><B>anyone who is still reading this far</B>,<BR>yes, please pray because I have to go to work tomorrow with OM in my face, I'm still waiting for those test results, I have a headache and I mostly would rather just sit on the sand at the beach and never get up!<P>------------------<BR>The good life is a process, not a state of being. It is a direction, not a destination.<BR>-Carl Rogers<P><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited December 05, 1999).]

Sheryl,<P>I have to kinda agree with Sidney here. a lot of what she is saying makes sense.<P>I also read David's post and he too appears to be suffering and confused. I feel badly for you both!<P>Look, you've got an AWFUL LOT on your plate right now:<P>- Colon problems<BR>- STD worry<BR>- Cr@p dealing with YOUR affair<BR>- Cr@p dealong with your H's past affairs<BR>- Cr@p dealing with this "new" revelation about the OChurchW<BR>- Cr@p dealing with past events involving your children<BR>- Cr@p dealing with your special needs son and fighting the school for his needs, etc.<P>Don't you see that any ONE of these offers enough strain for ANY marriage????? You and your H are dealing with WAAAAYYYYY TOOOOOOO MUUUUUUCCCCHHHH! <P>If ever ANY couple needed some serious counsling here, it is you two. You need some stress relief and coping skills that goes beyond anything any of us here can offer. There is just TOO MUCH going on in your lives. The CUMULATIVE effect of all this has you both at breaking point!<P>My heart and sympathy goes to you BOTH. Please get some counseling individual as well as couples counseling. Even if you are in counseling - There has to be a better mousetrap out there somewhere! <P>I know you wish you could just move forward and leave this all behind you. But seriously, I believe you are better off with someone to share this most burdensome load with. Same for your H. I hope you two can find a way out of this crazy maze and become a better source of SUPPORT for each other, instead of another source of PAIN for other.<P>Prayers and love to you both..........<P>Desiree<P><P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

RMA, I love you, remember that! Here goes: <B>H WON'T GO TO COUNSELING</B> - period.<P>I've gone by myself, several times (over the course of many years, I've seen 4 counselors for extended periods of time), and he finally went with me three times after my affair. He got pissed at the counselor, and that's all she wrote.<P>I'm going to speak to someone this week, as a matter of fact.<P>He spoke to his untrained and unlicensed minister of <B>the church</B> and he didn't especially like what he said either - by the way, he basically said the same as the counselor we paid for.<P>So, honey, there you have it. I agree with Sid too, and so many others here, including you. I honestly do!<P>Bottom line: my H thinks he's doing everything right. Yeah, he's hurting, I'm hurting, but I am willing to seek help. He won't and says he will <B>never</B> get counseling or get anti-deps <B>ever</B>.<P>I'm sorry, again. <P>~Sheryl<P>------------------<BR>The good life is a process, not a state of being. It is a direction, not a destination.<BR>-Carl Rogers<P><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited December 05, 1999).]