Need advise this morning. My h had been very distant to me lately and finally this morning I spoke to him. Found out that he is angry with me because I talked to OW ex husband.<P>Now keep in mind that ow divorced her h because they were in a terrible marriage and she began affair with my h. So, one would assume that her husband was upset the she cheated on him. Well he was but he had fallen out of love with her over the years. <P>At any rate, when he found out the my h moved in with her, he contacted me. I spoke to him a few times and I found him to be a very nice guy. A guy who was hurting as I was by the all the lies and deceit. We had alot in common. He told me all about his relationship with his wife and I told him about what I was going thru. It helps to talk to others in that situation especially the spouse of the person my h got involved with.<P>Anyway, I told him about how she harrasses me and I played him the tapes of her calling my office saying my h wanted me dead. <P>Turns out that my h is now so angry with me because I guess her husband is now behaving crazy. He is very unhappy that My h is living in the house with his 3 kids. (I don't blame him at all for this. It angers me too) My h says that he is a crazy person now and he is blaming me for all of it. <P>One day her h went to pick up his son and his son came out of the house with one of my h jackets on. Well,I guess he went crazy and ripped it off of him. <P>Again this is all my fault. I am so tired of having to feel bad for all of this crap. My counselor was the one who told me that I should contact the h of the OW so we could help each other through this. But, I never felt right about it so when he contacted me I felt much better. <P>I only spoke to him 2 times and one time he came to a support group with me. I have not spoken to him since and it has been at least 2 months now.<P>So, do you think I was wrong for talking to the h of the OW???? <P>I am a sensitive person and the fact that my h is angry at is bothering me. After all that he has done to me, he has some nerve getting angry at ME!! He should have known that his life was not going to be a piece of cake especially when he got involved with a married woman and moved in with her and hr kids.<P>AM I CRAZY???<P>

mystic:<P>Regardless of the "rightness" of it, you hurt your husband's feelings.<P>One thing to always do in Plan A is to ask "How will my spouse feel if I..."<P>in your case, talk to OW's ex. I always took the tact that if I wasn't sure that what I would do or say would be positively interpreted by my wife (or at least neutral), I tried to either "rephrase" it, or drop it as a lovebuster.<P>Your appropriate response in Plan A would have been to apologize. No justification, no blame. Just say "I'm sorry for hurting you and putting you in this position..."<P>It doesn't address the fact that he's done 1000x worse stuff by putting YOU in that position, but you're not at a point to address that yet. If you can't get your husband back into the marriage---you'll never be.

I was so hoping you were having a better day...today. I quess not. If the OW's H contacted you, there isn't much to feel sorry for. Maybe to help yourself it would be best to try and remove yourself from the whold situation, including the OP's spouse. It appears that your H is behaving a bit irrationally and no matter what you say or do is going to make him mad, so don't say anything. It is good to talk to others who are going through similar situations, but the OW's spouse isn't a good choice...at least not right now.<P>I hope your day gets better. Try to remember that you didn't do anything wrong and have nothing to feel bad about except being in this unfortunate mess, which you didn't ask for either. <P>Take a deep breath and try to think about something pleasant...................................................................................Good, I hope you feel better now.<P>LS<P>

Am I missing something? Why would you tell her that she should behave nice to her husband. He is living in someone elses house! With another woman and her kids! This is terribly selfish and damaging. And he has the audacity to ***** at her because he is catching a little heat. Are there some rules about this stuff that I haven't read or something? You don't have to change your name to 'doormat'. If I am missing something please enlighten me.

I think that you are putting yourself in a dangerous situation if you do talk with the OW H. Not just because your H is angry at you for it, but because it could cause other problems for you. Your H has to know that he has put himself in this situation. He chose to move in with her. Did he think it was going to be "Pleasantville" or something? <P>You don't really know the OW H well enough to know if he has a bizzare motive for getting friendly with you. I don't think you did anything wrong, I just don't think it is a good situation to get into. <P>It could be that he would just be doing it to purposly "get even" with your H and his W. One of those, "How does it feel" type of things. Most likely he wouldn't have your best interest at heart.<P>I agree that you need to talk with others who are going through this.... but I think you should stay away from him. You said you hadn't anyway for 2 months. Afterall, you said it yourself... you didn't feel comfortable enough to contact him yourself in the first place. Follow your instincts... Watch out for yourself... <p>[This message has been edited by Lacee (edited May 05, 2000).]

Thanks for all you replies.<P>K-This all happened a few months ago before what I knew what plan A was. I really feel like My h has no reason for being upset with me. I mean did he think he could just move in with ow and have her h accept that. He was very upset about that. He found out through a friend of his not me. This whole mess is all because of him and it is very hard to plan A him when he blames me for ow h behavior. I do not control his behavior..<P>The counselor I am seeing had told me awhile ago that I should have called the OW h to talk to him so we could help each other thru all the pain. I never did but he called me. I honestly don't see anything wrong with it. <BR>It not like we plotted to do anything to them. We just talked about what each of us went thru. <P>OW h is a very nice guy. One with Morals and Values something that his wife and my h are missing. <P>I only spoke to him on 3 occassions and that was it. Haven't seen or spoken to him in 2 months now.<P>I think my h is upset because OW has to deal with her husbands disapproval of my h living at her house with his kids. I have to say I also agree with that. If my h was any kind of real man, he would have gone out and gotten himself his own place. So, if she is mad at the situation, she is going to blame me for everything and that just feeds into his anger toward me. <P>Just doesn't seem at all fair to me. But, I will take all of your suggestions and not talk to ow h again.<P>I still love my h and I told him so today. I tell you though, this being miss nice nice plan A thing is not going to work much longer. Sometimes i think it might be best to just act as happy as a clam so he thinks i can get along without him. What do you think???

Yes.... I would agree.... Be happy as a little clam can be....

Let me see if I got this right. <P>Your H is mad at you, <BR>because his lover's x-H is mad at him, <BR>'cause he's living withhis x-W, <BR>in his house with his kids. <BR>And this is all your fault, your husband didn't do anything to hurt anybody.<BR> <BR>Hmmm. Your H does seem a tad bit into denial.<P>If I were you, I would apologize to your H for what you did that hurt him. But that you can't take responsibility for the OW's x-H actions, nor are you willing to take responsibility for his (your H's) actions.<P>I guess he may argue and say you are responsibile for everyone else's actions, but then even he might see how ridiculous that sounds.<P>Cheers,<BR>Kenneth<P>

Hail Kenneth, you totally see my point of view. THANKS!!<BR>However, not sure why should I apologize for talking to OW husband? He called me out of concern for his kids. He was also someone who was in pain and needed someone to talk to. I mean I spoke to him twice and he also came to a church support group meeting that I attended as well. Why should i turn my back on someone who is in pain especially when infidelity is concerned. We all know what kind of pain that is..<P>Still don't see where I went wrong...

Hey, guess what missy? Now we have this in common= also!!!<P>the OP's H contacted me also. (Op is still living and sleeping with her H. They have 2 children) Op's H told me all kinds of interesting info that let me in on the extent of the fantasy. OP has apparently been telling her H every detail since the day they returned from their trip. <P>When I first, very respectfully, told my H things her H mentioned (I did NOT tell him all, only things that I thought would effect my children) My H acted like OP's H was a real problem. He told me OP's H was lying etc. etc. He took it out on me. <P>Now, the next occasion, OP's H called to inform me he caught them going somewhere and confronted my H. It was the middle of the night and OP's H toldme his w was going to go to my H's apt. I quickly called my H and told him if that was the case I was outta here the next am. (NOt a MB tactic I know, it just happeded instinctually.)<P>My H ended up talking to me for 3 hours (during which time she was calling him and he has call waiting). He also let some things slip, like he missed me. <P>He still kept up the I don't know who's telling the truth stuff.<P>But he also told me that night he didn't care if OP's H called me.<P>So as Op's H called me with info, I would let my H in on some of it. Eventually, he stopped defending OP. OP's H was telling me with great accuracy, the details of my life and the life of my children. I think my H finally had to believe me. <P>It really upsets me to hear some of the things that OP's H tells me. I had basically wanted to wait for my H to tell me what was going on when he figured it out. <P>I really did not want to know too much, but in some ways it seemed to burst the fantasy alittle.<P>I actually think it is interesting that your H got angry. Isn't that the first REAL conflict type conversation he has engaged in with you????<P>Again, I am not trying to give you advice here, because I sometimes tended to not follow MB priciples but I got to the point where I said "hey look" This dysfunction is between the three of you...I don't know what is going on, but I am out of it, and I don't want the kids in it either!!!!!!"<P>It's already done, you did not call OP's ex yourself. As respectfully as you can you can tell him you are sorry that OP's ex's craziness is causing you distress, but don't feel bad about yourself. <P>I'm not sure we can always know how to do the right thing in these situations. I just try my best. I'm always praying that I;ll be saying the right thing, but sometimes I know I'm doing more of a tough love thing than a plan a. Hang in there!<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kenneth:<BR><B>Let me see if I got this right. <P>Your H is mad at you, <BR>because his lover's x-H is mad at him, <BR>'cause he's living withhis x-W, <BR>in his house with his kids. <BR>And this is all your fault, your husband didn't do anything to hurt anybody.<BR> <BR>Hmmm. Your H does seem a tad bit into denial.<P>If I were you, I would apologize to your H for what you did that hurt him. But that you can't take responsibility for the OW's x-H actions, nor are you willing to take responsibility for his (your H's) actions.<P>I guess he may argue and say you are responsibile for everyone else's actions, but then even he might see how ridiculous that sounds.<P>Cheers,<BR>Kenneth<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Dear Kenneth, Pithy, succinct, clean and to the point. You've gotten rid of all the dust kitties clinging to this issue. <P>Mystic, are the tapes you played for OP's H scarey or dangerous? Are they the type of thing you might need as evidence in order to get a restraining order to protect yourself, your home, your kids? Did H actually say what OP says he did?<P>

Bellevue, the tape is a recording of the Ow calling my answering machine at work and stating that my h wanted me dead so he could have my kids and her. She also stated that at night he would come home and see my car in the driveway and then he would call her or drive to her house upset that I made it home alive again. She also said that when my back went out (I was laid up for 2 weeks with slip discs)he was hoping it would be tumor so cancer would kill me.<P>That is her take on what he was telling her.<P>Now, when I confronted my h his take on all of this was that he always thought something was going to happen to me because that would justify why god bought OW into his life because he knows in his heart that this affair was wrong and that I was such a good wife. He is a big believer in fate. He said he never wanted me dead but he just thought that it would be a sign from God that what he was doing was ok.<P>Now, I played the tape for ow h and I guess his take on it was that she harassed me and made death threats against me. At least that is what my h told me. <P>I do have all the harassing evidence against this woman including the arrest record my h filed on her. I will do whatever it takes to make sure she is never around my kids. My attorney told me I should have no problem with that request. Besides, my kids do not like her one bit and don't want to be anywhere near her. <P>My h will just have to realize that if a life with her is truly what he wants, he will lose touch with his own kids. I mean he spends so much more time with her kids then his own. This from a man that absolutley worshipped his kids. <P>Go figure? He is so lost and I am afraid of what he will do when he realizes just what he is throwing away. <P>Until then I'll do my best to Plan A him butI tell you it is so hard.....<P>Tootrusting-I wish I could just talk to you all night long over an ice cold beer or too. Thanks for all your encouragement.

Missy, the beer does sound good. Do you like Coronna(sp)!!!<P>Again, take this for what it is.....I in no way profess to know it all.....or anything for that matter. But I did talk to S. Harley about these grandiose type affairs for a long time. He gave me great advice. I know I need to call him again, and am sure he will tell me to plan B. if my H is unwilling to get off the fence by himself.<P>If the plan A is not working for you, why don't you do a sort of 180. (in Divorsebusting lingo). Why not tell him that You love him, and want to work on the marraige. You have learned alot about meeting needs and want to work on meeting his needs that were unmet in the marraige.<P>Continue on with....I know this is your choice. I am not making you do what you do not want to do....but (there is always a but eh??) I do not want this for the kids. If you are unwilling to end the relationship with Op then, you and I do not need to be friends. I will go on and look for a companion for me and someone who will be a good step father for the kids..... <P>I guess I'll get creamed for this one, but ya know, it is so annoying....I told my H recently (he is coming out of the grandiosity alittle) that I was not stopping him from doing what he wanted, but If he was not willing to work on the marraige, I wanted to have some control in my life. That I would like to meet a companion. I told him that it might take me alittle longer, since I didn't have the good fortune of having my soul-mate working side by side all these years. <P>This was the point that he told me he didn't think this was what he wanted (OP). (at least in a relationship...I think he still thin=ks he can work with her) This was also the point that he told me he wanted a counselor because he couldn't talk to me...<P>At that point I told him I didn't know if i would go to a counselor with him because I didn't think we would get anywhere while she was still in the picture. <P>He wanted me to think about it. I am not going to cut slack here Missy. If he wants this kind of life, well, what can I do about that. But I can tell you, I do not. <P>Did you watch the 20/20 with the Gifford's. My MIL was telling me about it. KatheeLee was talking about the fantasy of falling "in love". She talked about the hard work that needs to go into a marraige. <P>I believe that. My H believed that also untill his trip abroad with OP. I will continue to be respectful, and tell him that I love him and am willing to work on the marraige. I have told him that I was sorry for my role in allowing this to happen.<P>But I just do not want to stay married, have him in an apt...continuing with Op in whatever fashion....not knowing what is going on and having him keep his relationship with the kids.<P>I think somewhere on this board I read that when kids are involved you need to have a pit bull mentality...I believe that. <P>I'm not giving up...but I'm taking care of myself and the kids........<P>

Love Corona. It really is my favorite. Gotta have a lime with it <P>I think you are lucky that your h doesn't live with the OP. Mine just jumped right in. It has been 107 days since he left me and I bet I haven't even spent one hour in those 107 days talking to him. He just doesn't seem to care. <P>I did tell him that after all he has put me through, I know I still love him. I just don't think I can tell him I want the marriage to work. I tried that a year ago and at that time he was the one who wanted to come back. We did the counseling thing but like I said in one of my other posts, he lied through out it. I feel if there is a chance at reconciliation, it is going to have to come because he wants it to. <P>I also think I have a strange twist to my to my story in the fact that I think this OW got my h into all types of sexual things. Or, perhaps she bought this out in him. He is now into Masturbation, porno, internet porn, etc..<BR>I mean she would send him a porn clip of the day every day. They even bought each other video tapes. She is extremely sexual. I think this has alot to do with his fantasy. When you get involved with all of that, it must be incredibly hard to break away from it. <P>I did watch 20/20 last night and I totally agree with Kathie Lee. Marriage is so tough and it does take effort. I understand what you said about me approaching my h and apologizing for my part in this affair but I just wish I knew what that was. I have asked him so many times and he always says there is nothing that I was doing or not doing but that the problem is his and his alone. So, what do I apologize for??? Not being sexual enough? Trampy?<P>Do you know he once told me that as long as he lives he will not find me sexy. He says he is attracted to me but now he feels he needs the sexy bad girl image in his life. <P>One night he was trying to explain his feeling to me so I could understand where he was coming from and he explained it something like this. <P>"It like I have a Saturn( the car I drive) its a good looking dependable car, very reliable, alway there for you but,why should I settle for a Saturn when I can have a mercedes."<P>I could not believe my ears when he said that. He was so cruel. <P>I know I am making him out to sound like a creature but if you knew the person he was before this woman entered his life you would have thought the world of him. He even said if he never met her we would still be very happy today.But, he thinks it was fate that she came into his life and all he is concerned about right now is himself.<P>I wish I had a crystal ball and could see into the future to see where I will be in 2 years. My hope is that it is with the man I married and not the stranger he is today. <BR>I so believe in the power of prayer and not a day goes by where I don't pray to god to please have my h get the help he needs and for someone to take the blinders off his eyes so he can see the OW for what she really is. <P>WHEW>> sorry for the long post, I just got on a roll... Speak soon.<P>

Did something significant happen in you H's life at this point?? Anything in his past...in his family???<P>I believe you that he was a different (kinder, gentler) person, because that's what I see in my H.<P>I guess in a MLC or a "giver snap" as S.Harley calls it....they almost become polar opposite. <P>The interest in the new sexual practices is interesting. Did you say they went on a trip together??? I swear, its almost like mind control and they need deprogramming.<P>I am so sorry to hear the creul things he said. It is so hurtful. My H has said some creul things as well. <P>Shortly after he left he asked me if I remembered making love. I said yes (we were making love every other night or day depending! I remember us both enjoying it.)<P>He told me he didn't remember making love to me at all. I found that cruel.. Actually there are too many things that seem to be erased from his memory!!!<P>I know I am lucky he did not move in with her. I actually think it was intended to happen, or they were going to go somewhere else together. <P>His family (sibs and mom) bombarded him with phone calls and e-mails telling him he was making a big mistake. (At this point he hadn't even really admitted anything.) His mom caught on real quick.. She felt that something was up with OP after the trip. His sister kept telling him she was manipulating him... His brothers (who had met her once or twice) told him she had her own agenda. And of course I had been telling him for years she was on a power trip. (she called herself the "office wife")<P>That, coupled with all of us somehow convincing him to see a counselor...( I think the counselor really must have gotton him to slow down.)made him slow down.<P>In the beginning he was like a runaway train. I managed to deflect most of it, but boy was it hard.<P>I had heard through the OP's H that she wanted to go on a business trip with him and he told her it was not a good time. OP';s H told me she was sad.<P>So, I'm not sure but I think that she wanted to go be with him, but I don't think he gave her the go-ahead because he was not sure.<P>But he was still keeping the fantasy going during this time.<P>I was under the impression that when they do live together the fantasy will fade faster. But you said this was going on a year. <P>I did read the 2 year at the outside prediction!!!<P>Did I read correctly that you did not want to work on the marraige anymore??<P>If that's the case why not start creating your own life. Do you have a sep/div group near you... I wish there was a Parents without Partners here. There is a sep/div group at a local church here. It starts next week for 10 weeks. I thought I might check it out.<P>I would simply like to find some other families that are similar to me. I live in a neighborhood of all families with mom dad and kids. All of our friends fit that category also. <P>This is such a family-oriented conservative area.... We are an abberation.

Hi too<P>Let me clear a few things for you.<P>I can't think of anything significant that was happening to him at this time. Life was moving along smoothly.<P>He never went away with OW. In fact, this whole thing occured during the day in school while they were working. They never even went out in public. It was an immediate sexual attraction.<P>His mom and dad and siblings all spoke to him as well about what an incredible mistake he was making. They all know how well we got along. They also know the OW and what she is all about. <P>I found out about the affair just about a year ago and we started counseling immediately at that time. Things were going great for 4 months and then I noticed a change in him. He seemed to become a little distant at that time and he told me that he wonders about OW and how she was. My counselor said that was normal especially since he was so intimatley involved with her. I just took it as part of the withdrawal. But looking back, I am certain he must have contacted her at theat ime because that is when she got her breast implants and started dating other men. I think my h just snapped at that time. Then in JAnuary of this year I overheard a phone conversation that confirmed all my suspicions and that is when I asked him to leave. SO, he has been living with her for about 4 months now. <P>I do want my marriage more than anything but I just feel like that I am fighting a losing battle. I mean if he is happy what can I possibly do to change him. I feel like if it is going to work, it has to come from him. I have to know it is what he truly wants. <P>So until I see any sign, I am jsut gonna be myself move on and just try to plan A when I can. <P>Gotta run to kids game. I'll check in later and let you know how he treated me today at the game. Till then....

Well I went to game today and h barely acknowledged me. I sat on the hill with my father and his parents and his sisters. He sat on the other side of his parents for afew minutes and then got up and left and went to stand near the dugout. When he was on the hill, he was just making small talk about sports in general with his dad. <P>Today was his mothers B-day. When he saw her today he said hi and then she came to give me a kiss hello. I said Happy Birthday because I would normally do that and I think he felt like a jerk because he didnt say anything to her. A few minute later he said So, how does it feel to be another year older? I think his mom was a little annoyed.<P>Also, today was our goddaughters birthday party. Of course he did not go because he had to go to a party with OW. I think his friends were disappointed in him as well since they have always gone overboard for our kids. <P>He didn;t even stay until the end of my kids game today. He had to go see OW. <P>These are the things I resent so much....<P>Tonight, I had to drop the kids off at my mother in laws because H was there waiting for them and my nephew ran out to the car and yelled bye Aunt-----. It totally bought tears to my eyes and my mother in law and sister in law were standing outside and they saw all of this. They felt terrible for me. Once again a family get together and I am the only one not invited. GOsh it is so painful especially when I was closer to his family then he was. <P>When I got home there was a message from my sister in law on the machine saying she and her other sister were coming over later tonight and the 3 of us were going out. <BR>They are such kind thoughful people. His entire family is that way except him. <P>So, that was my day so far today. <P>Oh also, I heard thru a friend that OW and her h had it out at their sons baseball game a week ago. He is upset that my h is living in house with his 3 kids. I guess it got so bad that the umpire stopped the game and told them that if they don't stop he would kick them out. This was all done in front of all the fans and their 3 kids. <BR>So, that explains why my h is mad at me. I am totally responsible for how the OW h behaves. PLEASE!!!! <P>They both have terrible tempers (OW and Her H). I think OW must be blaming all of this on me and my h just listens to everything she says. <P>So sad!!!<BR>

h had kids yesterday while I was at a wedding. When I came home, I was not in the house 2 minutes when the phone rang and it was Ow. My kids once again saw her name on caller ID. I told h that I do not want her caling this house. <P>He said it is to bad and she has the right to call when he is there. <P>He left the house in a huff and I followed him out to take the garbage out and i leaned in his car to talk to him again. Things got a little heated by both of us. Me asking him once again why he did this to me and him telling me he doesn't know why but he loves ow so much. He also saying that he will be calling kids from her house at night instead of using his cell phone. I told him well we just won't answer the phone. <P>He then screams at me to get out of the way so he can leave. I mean really screamed. UGLY. Then he said he was going to call the police and his lawyer and let them know I will not let him leave. GIVE ME A BREAK. <BR>I said by all means let go call them I'll dial for you. He realized how silly he was being and then just shut the door in my face. I then opened the door again because at that time I was angry at the way he was treating me. I have done absolutely nothing to deserve this behavior. <P>He finally pulls down the driveway and then pulls back up again to say he was all set to have a talk with me tonight to apologize for what he did to me but now he will not. Then he yelled out you'll be hearing from my lawyer and sped away. <P>I go inside and my 2 kids just look at me and i could tell they heard the whole thing.They said That I should go tell him to F off. They told me that they don't want to call him at her house. They don't want anything to do with her. PERIOD!<P>He was also angry at me because We were invited to our goddaughters birhtday party and of course he would not go becasue he had plans with OW. Well he had gone out and bought her a dress and just assumed that i would deliver it for him. He never asked me to do it. He just assumed that since he left it in the bag and my kids knew who he bought it for that I would deliver it for him. <P>First of all it is way to small and secondly, I told him that this is your goddaughter and you owe it to your best friend to go in person yourself to deliver it. I told him he should have been man enough to show up that day and he said that OW was not invited and if she is going to start to be excluded then he just won't socialize with those people anymore. <P>This has been one of his best friends for the last 23 years.<P><BR>I don't know what to do at this point. I think its time for PLAN B. Not sure how i can do that though when I have to see him at the kids games all the time. <P>I tell you though, His behavior is crazy. Its like he is trying to get me to do anything that will cause a confrontation so he can have something to hold over my head because I have so much against ow. <P>I feel as though all the love I had for him it slowing going away. <P>The last thing he said to me as he was speeding away last night was "Get on with your life" <P>Any advise today for me? What should I do?