Has anyone ever successfully sued for custody of the OC when the OW is the mother? <P>I don't think this is something I want to do, but it may become a possibility. The XOW is a lunatic who thinks she has a "relationship" with my husband. (He slept with her a few times during a two month period. Stopped seeing her for 2 months. Found out she was pregnant, then came around here and there to keep her from telling me). She won't leave us alone. She thought that getting pregnant would make him leave me (wrong) and that he would just love the baby so much that he would want to be with it and her always.<P>I don't want anything to do with the kid, but there is no way to work through this as long as this lunatic is hanging around. If she pushes the issue, we are considering suing her for custody. What do you think?<P>She's an unwed mother with another child out of wedlock (who was in the house while my husband and she were having sex). The child is not very well adjusted and is very whiny and clingy. The mother smokes pot and is also not very well adjusted (she told her other child that my husband was going to be her new dad!) <P>Do I want to take this on? Absolutely not, but I find the child a lot less offensive than the mother, and she just won't go away. She's absolutely delusional.<P>Taking her child away when she used it to do that to me would be so gratifying! I think if she were approached with that possibility, she'd finally leave us alone, but I wouldn't dare suggest it unless I was prepared to follow through with it. <P>(Don't worry. I know I sound maniacally gleeful, but I'd never abuse the child. It's not her fault.)

I think it sounds like a terrific idea. You'd be doing a mitzvah by giving this kid a decent home and maybe a chance in life...and if you get custody and try to adopt this child yourself, you can bar her from your lives, taking out protective orders if necessary.<P>Just be sure you're not JUST doing it to be vindictive.<P>(That there are so many of these IS scary, though. Dragon Lady has a kid out of wedlock, in theory through "an arrangement with a male friend" -- not my H, as her child pre-dates his acquaintance with her. But I think I know who the child's father is, and he too is married.)

If H and I work out our marriage and OW doesnt give child up for adoption, I would consider suing for custody (after much prayer). I also would be interested in the success of this, please keep posted. OW also has other child 6 yrs old by "first" lover when she was 15! I know OW hopes when MY H sees child, H will melt into her arms uuuugggghhhh...She is very immature, clingy needy, and not very educated. Oh well.<BR>Kris

As a mother, I say go for custody and give this child a good home if you can! If you can overcome your own anger over how the child cam to be then that says a lot about your character. You have the chance to make a real difference here. I also have to say this just because it bothers me a lot. What was your husband doing having sex with a woman with a child in the house? That bothers me a lot. In my mind that's a really awful thing to do.<P>Del

Popeye:<P>Honey, beware of the vindictive feelings because they cloud judgment. I know.<P>If you really, really think you are capable of providing a loving home for a child that is not a bio child of yours, then you are truly amazing as I don't want anything to do with mine. wow. Did you hear that? I called her 'mine'. Freudian slip.<P>Sad In St. Louis:<P>I requested that the OX (another Freudian slip) I mean the OW not be allowed to bring the child to court when we had to fly to NY in late February for the support hearing. She was forced to acquiesce to my wishes but spent all her time reading a book "Baby's First Year" in my husband's presence and wearing a necklace with a heart dangling from it with a picture of the baby in it. <P>When I was there a week or two before to appear on my husband's behalf because he was in the psyche ward, I went with a good friend of mine, Drew, who witnessed with me her sitting there with the child in a buggy waiting for David's appearance and then flipping through a mit of pictures of the kid, probably to give to David, so he too, would melt into her arms and beg to be husband and daddy. <P>My friend Drew noticed that as soon as she realized David was a no-show, she immediately disposed of said child into the daycare facility at the court house.<P>Popeye:<P>If this woman is as bad aas you say she is, you would truly be doing this child an enormous favor. Is this something your husband would welcome or oppose?<P>Catnip =^^=

As is so often the case, XOWomen seem to make bad choices is MANY areas of their life, not just the affair! <P>I too consider my H and I to be better parent material than XOW AND her close relatives, and I can say it with confidence because I watched her with her first 2 kids for 3 years as her "friend". HOWEVER, think about two factors. Can you PROVE serious potential harm or abuse/neglect to your H's child? The kind admissable in court. Will it be serious enough that you'll get the huge bulk of custody?? Because it is entirely possible that a court would give you JOINT custody (Oh joy--seeing lots of the XOW! Having to constantly work out parenting issues), or primary custody with liberal visitation (same problem), or temporary custody(ala foster parents) until the XOW makes certain concrete changes, such as drug rehab or parenting classes. In my opinion, courts are very reluctant to separate mothers and children. My point being, you might end up with XOW MORE in your lives than ever before! Though I was willing to take OC, my H was not willing to do anything that might cause lots of contact with XOW to happen!!! Best for the marriage.<P>Consider that, and your honest heartfelt motives. If you're doing it as an advocate for the child due to mother's bad behavior (drug addiction, risk of abuse or molestation from multiple boyfriends, whatever) withOUT thoughts of revenge on the mother, then may nothing stop you. Best wishes,<BR>Jenny

I have had people discuss whether I would consider this option. I do not want contact, and neither does my husband. The only advice I can say is it is VERY hard to prove someone unfit. I have worked in state agencies, and it takes years for the kids to be free. There are moms who sell drugs, are prostitutes, etc, right in front of their kids. The kids are taken away for a little while but if that mother tries to get help. In a few months she can get them back. I am just talking in general how hard it is to prove. There are tons of stories of the system not working, and the kids feeling like yo-yos in the system, between foster care, and parents. Now I am sure you could try for joint, but sole custody will be tough if she wants it. You are a stronger person than I am, good luck. By the way, obviously if you have joint that cuts the child support payments down, and full custody of course there is no payments, and she would have to pay child support. The OW in situation, thinks that if she got joint support with my H, then he would eventually come to her, she is very unstable. Has tried to commit suicide, moves all the time, etc. But I told my husband, unless she was selling drugs, and using her kids for the business, she still would not be proven unfit. It is a hard road. You have my prayers. <P>babstr

As far as vindictive feelings, I can honestly say there are none towards the child. She is innocent of how she came into the world, but her presence would remind me every day of what he has done. I don't want to have to face that, but if we were to reconcile, that would be preferable to having to deal with the OW, visits, and all that. Especially when she is as unstable as she is.<P>I feel like I am the only one who has really considered the child in this whole thing. The mother made an awful choice to have a child under those circumstances and my H has been totally absent from the whole thing- as if it would just go away.<P>As far as my husband goes, he does not have a bond with this child. He feels like OC is a weight around his neck that stands in the way of our reconciliation. He is willing to give OC up forever if I came back, but he expects me to have a child to replace this one. (We don't have children because I have a fear of divorce and bringing children into that environment. Though he's never cheated before now, he's never been the stay-at-home family man type. Always been self centered).<P>He is also willing to be a part time dad if I go. This makes me think he really wants the child. I feel blackmailed though. I don't want to have his child when I've SEEN what he is capable of- his cold-heartedness towards the child he's had AND his cheating ways. Not to mention the way he dishonored me and our commitment.<P>If it sounds like I am confused, I am. There are just so many options and I am checking them all out.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jenny:<BR><B>Can you PROVE serious potential harm or abuse/neglect to your H's child? The kind admissable in court. Will it be serious enough that you'll get the huge bulk of custody?? Because it is entirely possible that a court would give you JOINT custody </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't know. What do you all think? This woman had sex in the house with her other child present. She smokes marijuana. Her other child is clingy and very dependent. (not the greatest parenting). When my H told OW for the millionth time that he did not want to be a part of her life, she cried and said, "But what am I supposed to tell my other daughter? I told her you were going to be her new daddy?" (she's delusional). Her other child also has no father. H was humiliated when OW was walking around with her big belly, obviously no husband or boyfriend, and explained, "It's the 90s!" Just low moral character all around.<P>There is nothing there that would cause Social Services to take her child away, but if offered a better solution, they might award custody to a two parent family. Right? <P>I don't know if things would ever get this far however. My H says OW loves this child dearly and would never let it go. If we even threatened to take her to court if she didn't leave us alone, I think she'd run. Wouldn't want to threaten it unless we were prepared to do it. Wouldn't want to start it unless we were prepared for a lifelong commitment. <P>Do I *want* to do it? No. That is definitely the harder road to take. Would I do it? Not unless I thought for sure that it would be in the best interest of our family and the child. And I am not sure of anything!

Where do all these men find these unstable women? If I were a man reading these threads, I think I would run for the monestary. It saddens me that so many children are being born under these horrific circumstances. <P>Popeye...is this lunatic woman still smoking pot while pregnant? What on earth was your husband thinking have sex with a child in the house? Was he smoking pot too? It will be very difficult to sue this OW for custody;; however, if you can document enough evidence that she is negligent...you may have a chance. I am assuming you and your H are back, so it will be important to get the straight facts from him. The OW can come right back making statements about his conduct...sex with the OC around, the pot smoiking, etc. That would create havoic in your custody case since I'm assumming the custody would be shared. <P>I wish you luck; I pray for the poor child. Already, he or she has the odds stacked against them. People don't think what misery their self centerness creates.<P>

You are an amazing woman, Popeye. I am humbled by you compassion for the child. I also understand your apprehensiveness with so many issues to consider. <BR>Wouldn't it be wonderful if we Betrayed's could get a guarantee that this was a fluke and nothing like this would or could ever happen again? We could certainly make better decisions for ourselves if we had a crystal ball. I know that paying attention to my gut reactions would have served me better than ignoring them or dismissing them. You can be sure that I will heed each and every inkling from this point forward.<P>Isn't it incredible when people excuse their bad behavior by blowing it off with moronic blitherings by saying "It's the 90's" as if the decade somehow justifies, nullifies and excuses despicable actions and alley cat morals and that any integrity, decency and morals-and consideration of others-is simply passe'? Gad, these people make me nuts. Where do they get this sloppy thinking?<BR> <BR>All this reteoric is designed to allow them to live like irresponsible imbeciles grunting and rutting to scratch their itches as long as it is pleasurable to them and serves them somehow regardless of the impact on others. Ugh. I long for a higher social plane of-something. <BR>I remember when I was a little girl that these things caused shame and embarrassment and the knocked up girl would go away, if she wasn't forced into a shotgun wedding, for a few months-and come back empty handed (sans baby) to try to go on with her life. There was shame involved and degradation-nothing to be proud of.<P>We are so casual and so accepting of low standards. It is such a shame.<P>Catnip =^^=

I have been reading the replies to Popeye's post and 1 question came to my mind. Does your husband want custody of the child? Because if he doesn't, you have no claim to the child b/c your husband had an affair with the mother. What makes you think that you are the better parent just b/c you would have a 2 parent family? If things were that great, why did your husband stray in the 1st place? You sound vindictive and self-righteous, check your motives.

Iamfool:<P>Unless you have read all of Popeye's other posts, you wouldn't understand where she is coming from. Perhaps you should reserve judgment until you are more familiar with the circumstances.<P>Welcome to the forum. I hope you will find solutions to your life situations and find comfort and guidance here with us.<P>Have you received your welcome from NSR? You should be hearing from him soon.<P>Catnip =^^=

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by I'mafool:<BR><B>Does your husband want custody of the child? What makes you think that you are the better parent just b/c you would have a 2 parent family? If things were that great, why did your husband stray in the 1st place? You sound vindictive and self-righteous, check your motives. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My H and I are considering all options and considering all players. There is no right or wrong answer here and all things have to be considered. <P>Why would I be a better parent? Because I would not sleep with another woman's husband when my child is in the house. Because I AM thinking of the best interest of all involved, unlike the hussy who decided to have a child knowing my H didn't want to be a father. Because the OW is using her kid as a manipulation tool to harass my H and me. Because her other child is also a product of a failed attempt to hook a man.<P>My H is not still with her. He did not "stray" because I was mean and vindictive. He is begging to stay because I am not.<P>What my H and this woman did was selfish and wrong. They have handled this entire situation badly. He's acting as if it will just go away. She's pushing it down his throat. Someone needs to start treating this as if it is a reality involving another person's life- and that is me. <BR>Exploring the options of having this child come and live with us is not done out of cruelty, but out of giving the child a shot at a decent, stable life. I don't know if I am up to that task honestly. I don't want to see that child every day, but it is not her fault. Taking my husband back means taking on all his baggage too. It's about responsibility and doing the right thing. I am sorry that you feel threatened by that. <P>Maybe you are a conniving OW with a wish for a MMs child?

Hello Popeye,<P>On the contrary, I happen to be happily married...I am not lusting after other MM or their kids. I was little annoyed at the way your post came over to me. Maybe I should go read more about your history to better understand but it takes 2 to tango baby. Did the OW force your husband to sleep with her? Was he so gullible? I get tired of women whose spouses stray blaming the OW totally. Your husband is as much at fault as she is. So unless he is willing to fight for custody of the child, you should get off your soap box. unless the mother wants to give you the child..you will have to prove that she is unfit. B/c she did/does not have any morals does not make her that bad! My 2 cents.

I have a client who has legal custody of his own daughter, and her older half-sister by the same rotten mom. The irresponsible mother is still technically married to her long-separated husband. He is not interested and pays minimal child support to mom. The family courts like to have somebody step forward to care and love and support a child. Anybody interested is in the running.<P>If you can prove your husband does not do pot, have sex in front of strange little kids etc. then the only compassionate thing is to go for as much custody and visitation of the child as possible. Anything you say about her is going to be slapped back in his face, tit for tat. <P>You do not have an option of all or nothing custody in most jurisdictions. It might come to that eventually but only after both your H and the XOW establish their respective track records in parenting this child with the court. <P>The really wonderful thing would be to get XOW to give you OC and her older sister, so as not to split up the siblings. Let XOW see the advantages to her kids off to you for long stretches of time - you know, in terms of her freedom. The child has the right to YOUR husband to be her father as much as he can possibly be there. <P>This means chaos in your family, I understand. Who has the character to raise decent children these days? He needs to be a man and endure the weekend visits and try to be there for her despite OW and stress and strain on your marriage. He was irresponsible and created a baby, now the baby is really the only innocent person (more innocent than you even) and her needs come first. If you are going to stay married, then you are a step-mother for the rest of your life. She and you will be very blessed when you start acting like one.<P>------------------<BR>A true friend is one who not only is willing to love us the way we are, but is able to leave us better than he found us.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by I'mafool:<BR><B> Did the OW force your husband to sleep with her? I get tired of women whose spouses stray blaming the OW totally. Your husband is as much at fault as she is. So unless he is willing to fight for custody of the child, you should get off your soap box. unless the mother wants to give you the child..you will have to prove that she is unfit. B/c she did/does not have any morals does not make her that bad! </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The issue now is not of blame. They made this child together. The issue now is what to do about it. <P>My question was posed to get some feedback from those who have been there and those who might have seen how these things turn out. I have been very honest about my conflicting feelings towards the child and the situation. My animosity towards the XOW now is focused on how she is manipulating the present through this child. It's not a soap box, but a quest for insight. Your hostility really makes me wonder what YOUR issues are.<P>Of course the mother doesn't want me to have custody of her child. Why would she give away her only leverage into staying into our lives? My interest in getting the child has to do with giving the child a chance at a better life (at the expense of my own uncomfortable feelings), lessening the involvement of the XOW in our lives, and giving my H a chance to father this child. If it weren't for my involvement, he might just walk completely away from the whole situation. He feels horribly manipulated and resents it. I think the only way he would have any involvement with the OC is if I completely supported it, so I am trying to consider this for our future. So paint me as the bad guy if it makes you feel better, but you really don't have a clue.<P>A parent's morals don't make her a "bad" person? What does then?

Popeye,<P>Sorry if I have misunderstood you but obviously I do not agree with what you are saying. Hear me out. You said you are trying to get opinions from others in the same situation so maybe I should bow out of this one. You said that your husband would have nothing to do with the situation unless you urged him to...at least that is what i understand. I am sorry for your pain but trying to take the little girl so you would not have to deal with the mother does not sit well with me. Your husband laid in OW's bed...he has to pay the consequences. Unfortunately this might mean that you have to deal with the OW (if you choose to) but this is not your child. It's your H's. What would you tell her when she grows up? Would you want her to call you mom? If your H is feeling manipulated now, he should have thought of that before the fact.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by I'mafool:<BR><B> You said that your husband would have nothing to do with the situation unless you urged him to...at least that is what i understand. ...Unfortunately this might mean that you have to deal with the OW (if you choose to) but this is not your child. It's your H's. What would you tell her when she grows up? Would you want her to call you mom? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>In my attempt to be brief, I have not spelled out all my feelings. If I came across as thinking of this to "get back at" the OW, that was not my intention. Like most of you, I am experiencing a wild variety of emotions and ideas- some stupid and unrealistic, some with real potential. I am just checking everything out. Though I am sure there are women out there who would do something mean and vindictive to get back at the OW, I am not one of them.<P>If we decide to accept this child into our lives, it wouldn't be the H's child, it would be our child. I am still married to this man, so this child is also my family. If that is distasteful to you, I am sorry. When this woman inserted herself into his life, she also inserted herself into our lives. When she bore a child with my husband, she gave me a child too. <P>It's very much like experiencing an unwanted pregnancy for me except that the child is coming with her own mom! So, we are considering all the options and deciding what is best for the first family. <P>I *do* feel compassion for this innocent child and agree that what is done should be in her best interest, but not necessarily at the expense of the existing family. (please don't go off on your, "Well he should have kept it in his pants then!" tirade. I've heard it all before and agree with you, but it's already done).

Popeye, I understand your need to accept this child into your lives, BUT if H does not want to be a part of this childs life then why are you taking on HIS responsibilities? I know their is an innocent child involved, but from what I'm hearing it sounds like you would be the caregiver when you and H have the OC. Believe me I know where your heart is, but won't your H feel like you also are pushing this child onto him and then feel resentment. There are some men out their that basically are not cut out for parenthood, no matter how hard they try. My brother-in-law is like that with his kids from his first marriage and I am SO GLAD that my sister has not had any kids by him, because he has shown what he is NOT capable of as far as being a father goes. When they have the kids it is my sister doing all of the work, entertaining them, suggesting places to take them, etc. I just feel that yes, you love this man and you would like to see him show compassion for an innocent child, because you would want him to be a good father to your children had together. But their are people out their who just are cut out for it OR they are emotionally wrapped into themselves to take the time to develop good relationships with their kids. I don't think trying to have custody of the child is the answer, not just because it would hurt OW, but basically she decided to have this child knowing that your H didn't want the responsibility, now she has to learn that their are certain consequences to living in a fantasy, and now she MUST grow up and act like an adult for the sake of her child now. She WILL soon learn that using her child is not going to get her desired results. PLUS, you have to have unquestioning proof that this woman is unfit to care for the child. Smoking while pregnant and having sex when her first child is home is not proof enough, for some with morals it would be, but not to the courts. Just something to think about.