Dear friends: I can't seem to get OM out of my head and heart. I want so badly to move on, but he's in my heart and not budging an inch. It's going on 3 years since I've been with him and I hadn't really seen him until yesterday. All the other OM(s) I was able to forget about in a matter of months even if I did see them on the street. In fact, I wondered what in the heck did I ever see in them. This one has been in my life so to speak since I was 18. I had seen him in high school and felt a pain and joy in my heart. However, I never took the steps to meet him. I had seen him periodically over the years and that feeling in my heart was always there. He would come into my consciousness unexpectedly. I could be cleaning the bathroom and he was in my head for no reason. For years I couldn't figure out what was happening to me. Anyway, I married someone else(my spouse)who also captured my heart. I finally met the OM aka MM a few years ago and my heart was filled with such love and emotion. I was at peace with myself. I felt I could speak my mind and not feel insecure about it. He would give me his thoughts or even criticize me or my behavior and I didn't feel defensive or threatened. We spent alot of time talking more than anything. He has his faults and I am not blind to that fact. We just had so much in common as well as a mutual respect for our differences. The scary part is that alot of times, I felt I was talking to myself when I was talking to him. He could finish my sentences. Our thinking was and still is alot alike. I know this sounds so far fetched or ridiculus, but we both felt this connection like we've known each other before. I miss spending time with him and yesterday didn't help when I saw him. I felt a sharp pain in my heart when I saw him and I thought I was going to pass out. We talked for abit, but we didn't discuss us. I feel bad for saying this, but my spouse and I have never had such a connection or friendship. I am trying though because I do love my spouse. He is just different type of individual who is not much of a communicator. He doesn't give many compliments and he criticizes like the devil, but I have learn to deal with it. My spouse is a perfectionist and it is difficult when you have to try and live up to his expectations. He does work hard to spend time with me even if it is yard work. I am so caught in a major web and I don't know how to get out. I love them both very much. My spouse because we grew up together and learn (many times the hard way)to love each other for who we are. My OM because he is my friend and because he loved me as I am. I know my place is with my spouse because I made a commitment to him. However, I feel my heart being torn in half for both. Thanks for listening to me. Well the good thing from all of this is I haven't been thinking of suicide for awhile. I have had my bad days, but I am hanging in there. I almost quit my job a few weeks back because I am developing a phobia, but I am working aggressively to force myself out of the house even if it's to take a walk. My love and prayers to you all.

Sobeit,<P>Sweetie, you have such a gift for opening up your heart. You put things in a way that, when reading this, I can almost feel your pain. Do you try talking to your H that way? If you do, are his responses positive or negative? If you don't, please try to. <P>Seeing the OM yesterday caused you a lot of pain. I am glad that you didn't discuss your relationship with him. That's a positive. <P>You know that you want to be with your H because of love and committment. Keep reaching for that, you will get there. You have come so far in the past couple of months and can only keep growing. We all have set backs, but you are doing so good.<P>Hugs and prayers to you Rose,<BR>Mitzi <BR>

Dearest Mitzi: Thank you for your kind words. Yes, I have tried talking to my spouse, but he talks in terms of hobbies, business and the like. This past weekend, I asked him what he thought of my body and he replied "you're my wife". If I ask him if he loves me, he replies "you're my wife". Maybe I shouldn't ask him such questions knowing his responses. The only time he has shown emotion was when he thought I was going to leave. I tried to let him know my feelings and that I love when he talks to me, but to no avail. Sometimes when I am talking to him on the phone, he cuts me off because someone is talking to him or he has to switch ears. Or when I try to hold him or kiss him, he starts gagging or pushes me away using the excuse that's it's my perfume(which I rarely wear) or he's sick. He's done this type of behavior for years and frankly I am tired of fighting with him over it. So I accept it and move on. I did yell at him 2 weekends ago for bossing me around over plant spacing in the garden(remember the perfectionist?). It felt good! We do talk just not about intimate things or just to shoot the breeze. I am afraid that after the kids leave, we won't have anything to talk about. I am trying to keep some type of communication going between us. Maybe I need to look at what interest him and focus on that. I don't know. Thank you for your suggestions though. I haven't given up. How are you doing? Have you been taking care of yourself? Have any plans for the summer? My love and prayers to you. Rose

Rose,<P>Sounds like he needs a good kick in the pants. It sounds like he does what we term "typical male" behavior. Some men have a hard time with feelings and emotions. Maybe sometime you could tell him that you'd love to hear more than "you're my wife". I'm not sure how much good it would do, but it can only be worth a try. I don't remember, but have you and him gone to counseling together? Having someone other than you telling him how to communicate could be something for him to think about. <P>As for me, I'm doing good. Had a hearing in April for temp. shpport, but nothing else is scheduled so far. It almost seems like my H is stalling and he calls for "stupid" reasons (phone numbers that he can get from the phone book). I'm not sure what to think of it. I also start a job, my first ever, on the 22nd. I'll be working in a group home for mentally retarded people. I majored in psychology in college so I should do ok. I still have days when I panic about my life and want my H home, but then I think of all the things he put us thru and I know, at least for now, a divorce is necessary. It may be the only thing that helps him hit bottom sooner. For now, I'm ok.<P>I think of you often and I'm always glad to see you post. <P>(((((HUGS))))),<BR>Mitzi

sobeit,<P>{{{{{{{{Rose}}}}}}}<P>Your description of your H, could have been the description of the old me, before the my wake up call. I was (and in some ways still is, though working on it) very self-contained, independent and afraid of relying too much on others for support. In many ways I came across, as an analytical mind with few emotions, and when I showed emotions it was mostly in releasing pent up emotions in anger. I often was not very good at communicating, except in a logic/analytical manner, like if you have <I>Problem A</I> you need to apply <I>Solution B</I> and that will fix it. Not good when your wife, just wants you to listen and share, not solve all of her problems...<P>Well, I can go on but I guess that the pattern is very familiar My problem stems from the fact that I came from a family, that had a problem with sharing emotions and showing love, even with their only son. I have suffered from this since I was a kid, and it took me until I was about 30 to realize what was going on, and basically sucked in having deep relationships, other than same-sex friendships. Since then, I've started to work seriously at it, but not efficiently enough... Then at 33 I met my wife, and though I loved her dearly, I couldn't always show it the way I wanted to, and I guess that has frustrated her to no end, and sometimes still does, though I feel it's getting better. But it was only at the brink of losing my wife, that I really started to realize more fully (I want to say completely, but I'm not sure I'm there yet) my steel walls I've erected to protect the small core of emotions from being hurt, not realizing that they're like plants and need nurturing and sunlight to grow.<P>If this is anything like your H, you might need a jack-hammer to penetrate the steel walls, and though he might appreciate it in the long run, he will probably feel hurt and vulnerable, because he's no longer completely in control, and will show the world that there is a part of him that he isn't master of. So I don't suggest that you use this strategy, though it will probably seem tempting, since it will be quick, but there is a great risk of him building too much resentment over "steamrolling" his emotions.<P>A more gentle approach would be to play into his game by approaching this from the logical point of view. Find a good time, when neither of you are too stressed, tired or otherwise emotional out of balance, and try to make him talk himself and when he gets stumped, ask him gently "why is that?". Maybe, having him talk about his childhood, relationships with previous girlfriends (did any of them hurt him, and make him erect the walls?)... You get my drift, I guess... It will take several of these sessions, but you can speed it with trying to talk about emotional needs and trying to make him see that you have needs that you would love to have him meet, and he also have needs, but probably have buried them so deep, for fear of not having them met, and thus be hurt. So your task is to show him that he can rely on you, and the more he opens up the better your relationsship will be and the more rewards you both will reap.<P>I'm sorry I feel like, I'm staring to ramble, and I'm sorry if I completely missed the target, but your description of your H, just struck something inside me, that I had to get out, so if nothing else, thanks for giving me the opportunity to tell this.<P>Anyway, I hope the two of you get this sorted out. <P>Hope & prayers for you and your Husband.

Dear Mitzi: I kicked him the pants a couple of years ago for that behavior, but I hurt him big time. So now I am trying to make amends. It's like I can't win for losing. We did go to counseling, but I ended up crying and feeling like a child through the whole session. The counselor and spouse gave me their condescending looks. I will continue to fight the good fight and hopefully rebuild a good relationship out of the ashes of our past pain. <BR>It's good to hear that you are doing much better. Hearing you gives me the strength to continue life. You have faced adversity with the strength and the will to move forward and tackle the unknown. I commend you. Good luck on your new job. You will do just fine!<BR>My love and prayers to you<P>SadMan: Thank you very much for your side of the story and you didn't ramble on. My spouse comes from a very close family, but they do keep things hush,hush in hopes that with time it goes away. A few years ago, I did give him a wake up call. However, I went overboard and caused him alot of pain. Now he has shut a part of himself off even more. I guess his fear of getting hurt more by me. He did look at his role in all of this tragedy and he did apologize, but he is still his old self just not as bad. He has been trying to talk, but as I said earlier it's shop talk. I don't worry too much about it unless I am not having a good day. He's not much to talk with on those days so I don't even try. This is when the OM kicks in. He has been there to talk with me and help me get myself back together, but I don't talk to him much anymore because it would be better for our marriages. I miss the conversations. Just to talk and exchange ideas or even go riding together. What is this behavior after marriage? Why do people change after vows are exhanged? I know I have changed, but I have always wanted to spend time with my spouse. I have always wanted to show him lots of affection in public or private. I love holding on to his arm in public, like saying "hey, this is my man and I am damn proud of him." I practically killed myself with an eating disorder to keep myself thin for him. So why does he not do the same?(not have an eating disorder, but the others) Am I not thin enough? Did I get too old? (40's)Do I not dress sexy enough? (I am a conservative dresser) There is a difference here and there are times when I just don't understand. You know that there are times when I wish I could have 2 husbands or more to meet each of my needs. But I change my mind pretty quick because I don't like to cook, wash clothes, be pregnant 9 months out of the year or cleaning up after two guys. Hopefully listening to me may help you understand the similar experiences, feelings your wife is going through. I wish you much luck in your marriage. My prayers and love to you.

sobeit,<P>Yes it does actually help, this site has given me a lot of insight as to how to deal with my own problems and the problems with our marriage, and we've only just begun. We're 4 months into recovery, and though our marriage is better than ever, there still are things that need to be tweaked. Your story as well as others are helping both me and my wife to realize some things about ourselves and sometimes also how to deal with them and fix them <P>About your H, it seems like he (like I used to) uses the austrich way of solving the problem, except that sticking your head into the sand, doesn't really solve the problem.<BR>One of the things that often happens to marriages after a while is that the spouses take each other for granted, and thus the spouses begin to grow further and further apart. One of the first signs is that communication boils down to practicalities, sometimes because you feel that you have nothing important to say to your SO.<BR>Your husband, might find it as hard as I do to express emotions, since they might feel contrived and take it for granted that since you've said it before in the past, you should know what he thinks. Except that humans aren't doing very well in the mind-reading department, and we often forget that opinions change, and sometimes the people around us, needs to be reaffirmed that we haven't changed our minds.<P>It is important for many males to recognize that a lot of women, have an EN for admiration and being let into their husbands minds and feelings and not just share practicalities.<P>If your husband doesn't read this site or is aware of it, you might want to print out Dr. Harley's excellent article <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_leave.html" TARGET=_blank>Why Women Leave Men</A>.<BR>This article clearly points out that the most prominent cause that women leaves their husbands are neglegt, and also suggests ways to avoid this, the section <B>A Man's House</B> is probably the most important section in your husbands case.<P>Hope this helps <P>Hope and prayers for you and your family.

Rose and SadMan<P> Sadman, I think you must be my bother or twin. I to was very closed. It took the wake up call my wife gave me to change.<P> Rose, My wife had to train me like a little 6 year old. She had to show me that to disagree is OK. That my feelings will be accepted and kept to us. I now have emotions about 18 years worth that I'm packing into the last 7 months. I now will express myself I will now open up to her. There is one very important thing I find myself doing still. I have such a HUGH fear of losing my wife (it's unfounded) that should anything be said or happen I will clam up. I will not address it in anyway, I have found myself viewing these things as better not to be deal with. I'm working on this and I now keep a journal in a attempt to catch myself in the act and take whatever I need to to fix it.<P> I do have a possible suggestion on getting to talk to you husband. I would get him when he is his most relaxed, in bed, cuddling, maybe your rubbing his chest or something like this. Picture yourself, head on his chest not looking him in the eye and talking. He should be relaxed, the fact that your not looking at him should help make him feel at ease. Take it slow and step by step talk about something easy to discuss. I had to feel safe to open up in the beginning and that did make it easier. I got reassurance each step of the way. I did feel and still feel like a little child but I'm getting there.<P> Another thing that helps if he can see where he fells better after talking to him. I recently was going off the deep end. I was holding things in because I thought the shrink wanted this. I was a wreck!!!! I finally got to the point where I DIDN'T GIVE A **** WHAT THE SHRINK WANTED. I did talk to my wife last night and the night before. We cleared the air and I have once again found this beautiful sensitive woman I married. Our converstion did get deep we even got to the subject of her sexual activities (A few confusing things needed to be straighten out). I fell so close and still fell so close to this woman. I don't know how to express just how deeply I do love her and it was this deep exchange of emotions since the affair that has produced this closeness.<P> She is on vacation visiting her mother and I have been working on something I hope will drive home the point of just how much she means to me. I am planning on signing "Can't help falling in love" by Elvis at a karoake when she gets back. What makes this special is that I CAN'T SIGN. I'll beat I have song that damn song at least a 1000 times this week practicing. The other thing is that I have a tememdous feel of getting up in front of people doing even something like dancing. If this does drive home the point that I love her and I want the world to know it I don't know what will. My problem is getting up the guts to do it and not have a heart attack doing it. I also fear I'll become overwhelmed with emotion doing it (this has been a major problem lately).<P> I have found, with my wife's help, that this exchanging and expression of feelings is fantastic. One more point, in my journal I had put in that I was afraid how my wife would view this faction of a man I have become due to these emotions breakdowns I have been having. Being strong is important to a guy and it is beaten into our heads early on.<P> Hopefully, some of this long drawn out BS is helpful.<P>Joe<P>PS. STOP BEATING YOURSELF UP ABOUT HOW YOU LOOK, OR HOW MUCH YOU WEIGH. I BELIEVE YOUR RIGHT ABOUT YOUR HUSBAND'S LOVE FOR YOU AND HAVING GONE THOUGHT THE SAME THING I CAN TELL YOU HIS LOVE FOR YOU IS STRONG. HE LOVES YOU FOR YOU. NOW ALL WE NEED TO DO IS SOMEHOW GET HIM TO OPEN UP.

GB,<P>I always thought that I was an only child... Oh, well live and learn <P>I think that you're right that "training" the H will be a good idea, though I guess it has to be done without him noticing it too much, or he will resent it -- <I>don't treat me like a baby! I'm an adult an can take care of myself!</I> kind of thing.<BR>Another obstacle we've had was that early on when I did speak up about what was going on inside my head, it was often problems that had (at least in my head) to do with my wife, and given our previous history, she was on the defensive, and started to counter, and we ended up with one of these silly fight over who was the worst and trying to affix more blame on the other etc. etc. etc.....<BR>Now, I feel we have gotten a lot further, and I'm able to be more open about what is going on, even when it's positive and not a problem. Though I often have to force myself to do so, it does become easier all the time, and I see some of the benefits in how we get along in our daily life (i.e. I have a happier wife )<P><I>Getting Better</I> I really like your idea of overcoming your fears and show your wife that you will do so to show your love for her, I just hope that you won't be thrown out of the karaoke place for scaring the other customers away (Just kidding... )<P>Prayers and Hope for all of y'all

AAUUUGGGHHHHH! I hate it when I write a post and it gets lost!!!!<P>Hi, Sweetie!<P>So good to see you posting here! I think about you all the time. <P>You've gotten some great advice from the people here so far, but, of course, I'm gonna add just a bit more!<P>You know, years and years ago, Robert was a twin of your h and some of these guys. A lot had happened to him in his life and opening up was NOT his greatest strength!<P>Anyway, I think you have a great idea. The first thing to "teach" him is that it's fun and safe to have a conversation with you - about anything. So learn about his interests and get him talking. Enough to ask the right questions and get him on a roll. After a while (a LONG while), just talking to you about "stuff" will become comfortable to him, and, believe it or not, that will increase the trust he has in you! Once you've gotten THAT far, you can start to bring up things that are a little more personal, but still safe - in between the other stuff. Gradually he'll become comfortable with that as well. It's a LONG drawn-out process, but it really does work! I think you'll be very happy with what happens b/n the two of you during those months! Intimacy BEGINS with good conversation and nothing works better than getting someone to talk about things that are important to them - no matter what those things are.<P>I'm so proud of how strong you've gotten over these months. I know it hurt you to see him, but just LOOK at how you handled it! Concentrating on "teaching" your h is gonna help the way that YOU feel as well, you know? <P>Remember, we love you and believe in you. Keep fighting the good fight - you'll get what you need. It'll take time and even more work (as if you haven't done ENOUGH already!! )<P>Love and prayers<P>Lori

Sobeit: I just wanted to say how awful I feel about not seeing your post on the day you posted it...you were such a help to me yesterday when I was stuck in the mud. You are a wise woman.<P>I can relate to how frustrating is when your H behaves like you are part of the furniture, or as I like to say the hired help. I put up with 0 affection, 0 conversation, 0 respect, 0 companionship for years. One day, I woke up and said enough. My H can be very charming when it suits him. If it doesn't, he won't. He doles it out like a reward for good behavior. After awhile, anger and resentment took the place of any love and I had. <P>I hope your H wakes up and appreciates what he has. Does he know about the OM? Sometimes I think the monks had the right idea; these relationships are so complicated. If we are suppose to be the intelligent species why do we make a mess of it so much?<P>Love & Prayers,<BR>LS

Thank you all for your kindness and suggestions. I will definitely look into suggested options in building a good communication bond between us. GB and Sadman, it seems that my spouse has many identical siblings when it comes to behavior. Sometimes though I think that nobody can be that meticulous over anything or that hard core that they can not express feelings except my spouse. I will check out yours and Lostva's idea on communication starters. My spouse can tell quickly if I treat him like a child, so I have to be very careful on my approach. In regards to rubbing his chest, forget it. Remember, my spouse is not a touchy feely person, but I will look for ways to get the message across to him. <BR>Lonelysoul: Thank you very much for you support. I am kind of having a shaky day today, but I am hanging in there. I am developing a phobia and slowly shutting myself off from the world. I have quit several organizations including my womens motorcycle group because I am having panic attacks every time I go out in public. Some days I can handle it with minor shakes and some days I can't handle it all. I rode my motorcycle to work today and was lacking the confidence that you need in order to ride well and alert. I hope I do better when I go home. To answer your question: if my spouse knows about OM. Yes and no. My spouse knows that I had a friend that I told him I loved during an anger fit, however, he doesn't know anymore. I plan to keep it that way. No sense rubbing salt in the wound. Again, thank you all for your generous support and kind words. I will survive this. I know this sounds silly, but I love it when you all either call me by my name or "sweetie" or a loving name. I had never been called loving names from the people I lived with when I was young. You know like a mother/father would affectionately call their children. You would be surprised how much the simple nice things mean to me. Thank you<BR>GB: You will do fine singing "I can't help falling in love with you" to your wife. I can almost hear you now and your voice sounds divine. Let me know how it goes. My love and prayers to you all.

I wish I could say something more powerful and soothing then hang in there. Of course you will hang in there, but its the duration of the hanging that is so hard. Yesterday was about one of the worse days I have had since this whole nightmare started. Today has been better, but it hasn't exactly been great. I am grateful though, that I do feel better. <P>Are you seeing a doctor about those panic attacks...if not, please do. Its a common enough problem and there are some good meds out there that help you cope. I know you want to work on your marriage, but remember it takes two to make a marriage. Don't make yourself sick trying to do this alone. I know I tried to do everything and quess what? It didn't work. As hard as it is, I came to the conclusion that I am not putting myself up for human sacrifice. I deserve to be called, sweetie and be treated with kindness and respect. That is not too much to ask. Alright, I will get off my soap box and say a prayer for you. You have so much to offer...be good to yourself. Are there any free concerts tonight? I don't know where you live, but if I could I'd go with you.<P>You take care Rose!<P>Susan

Rose! Rose! Rose!!<P>How are you???<P>I envy you for being out on your motorcycle today..don't you want to ride north and give me a ride? <P>Coming out of lurkdom just to say "hey!" and I am glad you are posting..<P>No advice for you sorry. but I did understand every word you wrote.<P>if you ever feel the need...eme!! <P>Cat<P>------------------<BR>Cat<P>catfrommb@yahoo.com

I am so sorry that you are not doing so well...<BR>I hung in there last night and now today I feel crummy again....<BR>Do you think that it would help us to talk through e-mail? You and Lonelysoul and I? I sometimes think I would like to have the privacy of that with someone who understands.... If you would rather not let me know.... but know that I am still praying for all of you... Take care...