A competent response please.<P>My wife seems to be depressed. Her memory of good times is very faint. Can't remember a golf date on Dec 31, 1999 and any details of such. She constantly states that she is tired. She has stated that she does not want to think about the future; or can't. She has lost interest in her children; not a attentive as before. She says they need their independence. My youngest is just 3. She has and continues to state that she does not know what "can be". "only time will tell" She has no interest in sex. She has stated that she is not interested in any type of relationship. She obsesses about her job. She reads "romance novels insatiably" but never talks aout them.<P>She has begun drinking at least one drink per evening. Wine or beer. Never did before. Events from August to February 2000 have lost significance (we vacationed, dinnered, played gold, spent new years at home just the two of us)<P>Do you think she is depressed? How can I get her help without insulting her? What should I do? I hate seeing her like this?<BR>She is a beautiful woman with alot to look forward to but she seems not to see it.<P>A competent response please.

Are you talking to your wife on a regular basis?<P>It sounds possible she could be depressed. Any overload of stress can mildly to majorly depress someone. A seperation is pretty high on the stress scale. I don't think I can be much help on the helping your wife seek professional help scene (I wasn't very successful at it), but I can give you some ideas of things you can do to help lift her spirits.<P>1. Ask her out on a date. Plan someplace really nice with flowers and music, or a small little intimate cafe. Woo her like you did when you first met. Don't bring up issues right now, just go for making the experience as wonderful as possible.<P>2. Point out all the good things that she is. Drag out old awards tucked in closets and find a way to display them. Have your 3 year old make her a special gift. List what makes her a good mother and wife and have it framed.<P>3. Gather support around her. Ask family and friends to stop by and say hello. To make a special effort to remember her and show how much they care. To get her out and about.<P>4. Practice your listening skills. Open up conversations with her every opportunity you can, and make the goal to gather as much information as you can. Offer solutions sparingly. Paraphrase and validate her feelings as much as possible.<P>If you fear for her life and safety. (The depression has gotten to the point that she has pretty much become a hermit, and has stopped taking interest in life to the point of not even grooming thoroughly) Gather her family and friends together and all go talk to her about counseling. <P>Those are the things I can think of. I hope somebody else will come along to offer other ideas.

The only symptom of depression that you didn't mention is some form of sleep disorder, either sleeping a lot or sleeping very little.<P>Yes, she is depressed.<P>Alcohol is a depressant so the drinking only agravates the problem. If she stays to a single drink a night you should be able to work with this. What I mean is that nagging her to stop drinkng will do more damage than a single drink per night.<P>I wish I could tell you more. I was in your wife's position for about 5 years. Ocasionally my wife would ask me if I was happy and I would always say yes when in reality on the good days I was numb. On the other days the sadness was like a warm blanket I could wrap myself in and hide from the world. None of my friends ever said "Hey, Joe, we're worried about you because you seem depressed and withdrawn." But then most of them were also afraid of me. They didn't want to be around in case I went Postal or something. What made me decide to do something about it? My best friend told me he really enjoyed my W's BJ's. Welcome to Hell, no way to go but up.<P>I would not suggest you try anything like that. But do tell her you are worried. Tell her everything you feel. Ask your friends to tell her that they are worried as well. Her obsessions are an escape and this is all she will see and feel so you will probalbly need to repeat the message many times before she hears it.

joe's right. those are the symptoms.<BR>are you afraid to even bring it up? i think if you do it gently and with care, she would not be insulted. Depression is very common, and really, the best treatment is anti-depressant drugs. How does she feel about medications in general? Does she have a good doctor that you could talk to?<BR>I have been terribly, terribly depressed, and very thankful when my H made me an appointment and came home to watch the kids while i went. (well, i argued a bit at the first suggestion, but KNEW i needed something, THEN i was thankful he took care of it for me) I was just too depressed to even do anything about it.<BR>Be sure to be gentle, not to harangue her, and remind her that it's common and you're worried, and i don't think she will get TOO angry at you.<BR>good luck and prayers,<BR>julie

It is also strong symptoms of a spouse having an affair.

For several months while I was struggling to make a career change my wife would ask "Are you happy?" I would respond by saying that I was not happy with my career and its direction but that I was very happy with my family and loved her and the kids tremendously. She would just drop it there. Never explore her feelings. Nor did I think to ask her the same.<P>I think she was asking herself the same question because of the way she felt. She had a lot of issues bothering her. Money, health, age and pressures of motherhood.<P>I want her to get help. Even if she is not diagnosed as depressed that would eliminate that as the cause of her emptiness out of love feeling. I think she is though. I don't know how she would feel about meds or psychotherapy. Although we are in marriage counseling, should I broach the symptoms and subject in our next session?<P>Competent responses only please

You can ask that she have an evaluation to find out if everything is okay - especially for depression. It certainly wouldn't hurt. But, all the attitude and behavior changes, lack of memory of good times, etc... are definite behavior traits of someone in an affair. Dr. Harley says that a spouse having an affair displays behavior similar to a person who has a mental illness, or a personality disorder.<P>On the forum here, we have termed the behavior as "the bad brain period". Meds are very helpful during these times for the betrayed and the betrayer.

well said about letting OP go. My H's OW was on the verge of suicide for months and blamed him for it, yet he could not let go. One of my best friends is an OW, and the MM just will not dump her, and they have a terrible relationship.<BR>i guess it really is an addiction.

john meade, Yes,your wife could be depressed. I can tell you from my experience, my H has had a tremedously stressful past two years with his job. He has worked incredibly long hours with OP right by his side (OP is married by the way) She had always ingratiated herself to my H and called herself the office wife. (I just rolled my eyes because my H told me he loved me every day, we made love frequently, enjoyed the kids etc.)<P>He went on a long overseas business trip with op and came back as you describe your wife to be.<P>My H seemed more grandiose I think....but said things like he didn't remember making love to me....he threw our wedding rings in my drawer. I commented that he got me the new ones for our last anniversary. He replied no that was five years ago.<P>It seemed that he was looking down a long tunnel, as if he could only see a glimpe of a happy memory many, many years ago. He refused to look at any pictures of him smiling. He looked miserable here. ( I ended up telling him he needed to move out. He had been threatening to move out every other day, but his behavior was very strange.)<P>He said vague things like your wife...."we're on different wavelengths" " I don['t feel connected to you, the kids or the house" He would say vague things about OP too. It was like they were on some "cosmic" work related mission. He also obsessed about work. He began working very long hours...He pulled away from his family, his children, his friends. <P>He denied ever being happy in his whole life. He told me he was always this way. If I didn't have a 9 and 11 year old to tell me different, I might have believed him.<P>I have always thought he had some underlying depression...some self confidence issues. He has always slept poorly. But it has gotton worse. He is chronically sleep deprived and it seemed that what I was witnessing was either him being on drugs (which I know it wasn't that), or disorientation from sleep deprivation, or depression (or a combo of the last two.)<P>His affair with OP seemed to be an intense EA. I figure their had to be some physical aspects, but I don't know how much. It was almost like a "romeo and Juliet" unrequited love thing. "soul mates" you know.<P>I have spoken to sharley 4 times now and he has not only been helpful in helping me formulate a plan, but he really explains these situations so you can truly understand them. <P>Yesterday he told me this....an affair can begin when there is a weakness in you (depression) and you are not protecting yourself (there is a manipulating power hungry control freak (oh sorry, got carried away)) from members of the opposite sex who are not your spouses. I'm sure he said it better than me, but you get the picture. <P>He also said that when you feel warm (with OP or work ) then you say to yourself you MUST have been cold at home with your spouse.<P>I found a great book called "I don't want to talk about it" overcoming the secret legacy of male depression.<P>I realize we are discussing your wife, but there is a chapter on covert depression and addiction that you would find helpful . <P>The chapter discusses the turning to any substanc, person, or action to regulate one's self esteem as an addiction. It further states that when the connection to the object of his addiction is undisturbed, he feels good about himself. But when that connection is disrupted....(the cocaine runs out, the credid cards reach theri limit, the affair ends) his sense of self-worth plummets, and his hidden depression begins to unfold.<P>Knowing all of this has helped me understand my H's actions better. Even though it is hard at times, I try to view this as an illness. <P>Having said all of that, I cannot help my H. You can't help your wife. They have to help themselves. My H (at least up to about 4 weeks ago..) cannot say he is depressed.<P>Luckily, he has been going to counseling since this began. He didn't want to, but everyone in his family (his mom, sibs etc) told him he needed help!!!! He went reluctantly, but is still going.<P>And believe it or not, I am at the 6 month mark, he is still working with OP, but says that he know the problem is in him and is not me....and we are going to our first couples counseling next week. I don't know what will happen, and I do know we have a long way to go....but I am hopeful.<P>It is still a delicate situation in the beginning. You really do have to do a plan A. They want to blame everything on you. You have to have the armor to deflect it, while still listening to what they are saying regarding the needs they seem to feel you did not meet....and you need to meet those needs. <P>And more importantly, but equally as hard, you need to avoid ( ) . (I think I read on another post you didn't like that phrase)<P>As much as you want to be the one to educate them, you can't.....I tried to be the mirror once and it just put me back a step or two.<P>I just kept trying to be his friend.. <P>My H has apolozied. And also has apologized for being numb. He is still "different" with the kids, but he gets more connected every day. He is laughing and smiling at them and with them now like he used to.<P>His patience is not the same, but I hope that will come back.... <P>Now, all I have to do is get OP the heck out of here!!!!!!!!

If she is depressed or in an EA she certainly will not admit to it? I have confronted her numerous times and have even called a colleague or hers to ask questions about goings on at work. He confirmed that there were rumors but he saw nothing concrete. This colleague than approached his boss about it and now things are being investigated by a district supervisor. (The EA/PA is between my wife and her boss.)<P>My wife is a very stubborn person and will never admit wrong doing of any kind. If you tell her she is wrong she simply states that that is your opinion. This happens on all issues big and small. She absolutely thinks that she has all the answers and knows it all about life. She oftens says this because or her so called "hard childhood".<P>How can I approach her about her problems with out upsetting her. I am so close to losing my family, kids, my love for my wife and she just doesn't see it. This is not the same person I married. Something changed.<P>She recently told me of her difficult childhood where she felt ugly, less attractive and like an ugly duckling. She would cry and sob over this to her parents. She admitted it was rough and eventually made a conscious decision that she was going to be different. Something like that. She said she just changed. I can't really expalin it but she seems to have the ability to comparmentalize her life and move on. What do you think? I want to help her but I don't know what to do. I am starting to get frustrated with her. Some of her more objective family members have stated to me that they are not happy with her actions, being that she is risking her family, kids happiness and her purported dreams of marriage and a happy life.<P>Incidentally, when this all broke open she repeatedly told me that I had done nothing wrong, been a good husband, been an excellent father. Lately though she is blaming me for being an in adequate provider and unstable both emotionally and psychologically.<P>I have sought therapy for myself and have found out that I have been suffering from depression and have negative obsessive complusive tendencies. I have been told that I am not crazy and am normal and above average in intelligence and psychological functioning.<P>I am just talking here. But please feel free to respond competently to anything that you read. I am trying to be rational, which has been hard lately, becuz of suspicions and an overwelming feeling of what in the he$$ is happeniing.<p>[This message has been edited by john meade (edited May 12, 2000).]

What does your marriage counselor say? Maybe this is something that he/she can bring up to her in a session. Call your marriage counselor and ask.

We know how you feel, John. It is the worst kind of feeling to feel so discarded and betrayed.<P>But I think you have to realize the only person that you can change is you. But, the good news is that when you change - she will more than likely respond to those changes.<P>So, it sounds like you have identified that something stinks in this situation - and it is probably an affair. EA/or PA - is yet to be determined. Regardless if it is PA or EA, the damage is done.<P>You don't have to get hung up on whether or not she acknowledges whether this is the problem or not, you can move in the direction to restore your marriage REGARDLESS if there is acknowledgement or disclosure. <P>Your counselor was on the right track. The changes need to begin with you first, and that IS something you can change. Identifying what those changes are - is the next step.<P>

Are you sure we don't have the same wife? I have been through this stuff, too. My wife was diagnosed with clinical depression and panic disorder about 5 years ago. Been on Paxil during most of that time.<P>She had to go off the medication when she got pregnant. Funny, that's when most of this stuff stated happening. Went back on after she had the baby, but there are some studies out there that say medication doesn't work after a break in treatment.<P>Now that she is with OM, she has again stopped taking her medication. She says she doesn't need it.<P>She has also never admitted any wrongdoing nor apoligized for anything she has ever done. And I mean never. She uses that same line, "That's your opinion."<P>I have just about given up hope that she will get better. It's really too bad, because she could be a really good person.