Hey guys would really appreciate and value more opinions, no matter how diverse.<P>A good day to all. I lurk and once in a while come in. It's not that I'm shy but have so many questions and so few concrete answers for myself or for others.<P>Just again to encourage everyone to hang in. As I've written before I've gone through a many years of S's affair, withdrawal of all S's support, seperation and S divorced me. After some years the light finally dawned in the S's addicted to OP mind, threw the OP out and starting with friendly coffees then progressing to rebuilding our relationship now back together for 2 years. MB, the forum, books and Steve have all been a great help. <P>Still many problems from the affair to be sorted out but the effort is so worth while. Even now we relate better, communicate better and love better than for many years of our marriage. <P>Just thought I'd throw that in (again) as encouragement for those in the depths of dispair. It will and does get better if both parties arrive at believing in and working toward the same objective ie. happiness for their partner and for them as equal partners.<P>My question (has been placed once before, my apologies) that I'd really appreciate having as many opinions as possible is:<P>Should my spouse, as part of repentance and restitution, tell S's parents the truth about her affair and the real reason that we split?<P>Your views would be greatly valued. Thanks.<BR> ---------------<BR>Forgivenss is the journey not the destination. Someone on the forum said something that is profoundly wise: "Truth never causes angre" Lies cause both the lier and the lied to to be angry - for different reasons.<p>[This message has been edited by LooksGood (edited May 12, 2000).]

Hi LooksGood,<P>I guess the option is up to you. I want Tony to tell them the truth. I am tired of being curxified on the cross for everything. He is the sorce of the problem not me. I did not cheat he did. He cheated from day one. They somewhat helped him cheat so it does not really matter they will make excuses for the little darling and I will always be trash.<P>But really examine why you want them to know and if it really will make a difference. Tony's family now knows and they could care less...I am still the evil one.

Hey Looksgood,<P>Glad to hear that there are some success stories out there....gives me a little hope. Sounds like it's a long process tho. <P>My opinion is that when restitution is being made, the truth (not every, vivid detail) should be told in humility and in love. The truth shall set you free. Does your S want to make restitution or is this something you want to ask her to do, or that you think she'll resist doing?<P>I just can't see any other way for full restoration of the marriage to be complete without honesty. I'm not saying your wife needs to tell everyone who knew you were divorce the WHOLE truth. But as far as the family goes, esp. her parents, I think it's only fair....to you, to her and to the marriage. Aren't they part of your family too? They should know the truth about the situation...it's not like they are just casual acquaintances.<P>The other thing is....the reasons for "the split" and the "affair" may actually be two different things. I know that most marriages where one person has an affair (including mine), have problems in them that actually led to the "emotional" divorce long before the affair or the actual divorce. So you may want to re-clarify the thing you are asking of your S....hope that makes sense.<P>God bless you. I really respect both you and your S for giving it one more chance. I have been struck lately what a "disposable" culture we live in these days....babies being stuffed in garbage cans, or raised in closets, husbands or wives being abandoned with little or no feeling, etc. People don't seem to have any values anymore or know the value of life and love. What has happened to us? It just breaks my heart and I wonder what it does to God's heart.<P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs. O

Thanks Mrs. O:<P>The problems of our marriage were contributed to equally by us both - lack of communication, not meeting the others needs, withdrawal of support, etc, etc - all the usual things.<P>My S hasn't arrived at the emotional place where she understands the need for her to give voluntary restitution. Like so much else this has to come from her concious decision, with no demands from me.<P>The "reasons" for the affair are rather complicated in that our trusted health professional became the OP during the time of treating us both. Very nasty business, a situation that may occur with other couples. An interesting book "Sex in the Forbidden Zone" expertly goes into patient exploitation by those in position of trust.<P>Thanks again for your interest. God bless.

I am a beliver in total honesty with your spouse. That is a given. But I am wondering what you think would be gained by her telling other individuals other than it takes some blaim from you? If it serves no purpose other than to satify something in you, do you think it is worth the hurt for her and her parents. What does Steve say?<P>J W<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LooksGood:<BR>[B]Should my spouse, as part of repentance and restitution, tell S's parents the truth about her affair and the real reason that we split?[B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks for sharing your journey. It has helped.<P>In my opinion, it is not necessary to air your dirty laundry to anyone if you are planning on staying together. Though it may seem to cleanse the wronged spouse if the betrayer took public responsibility, I think it just adds to the hurt. <P>If I were the betrayer, my parents would be devastated that I caused so much pain for my family. Why add their pain to that which already exists? <P>If you were splitting up, it might lessen your pain to know that the spouse took some public responsibility for what he did, but if it's over, does it really matter? If he is still with the OW, they are going to know anyway. I'd just stay quiet.<P>Giving each other dignity is a great, healing gift. Giving people something to talk about encourages pity and gossip.

Do you need restitution?<P>My husband paid dearly for his bad judgement in so very many ways. Why should I ask him to pay more??? I don't need it. Don't want it.<P>What DO I need and want? A great marriage. A great relationship. A loving spouse for today and into the future. A BETTER marriage than the one we built for ourselves before.<P>I KEPT my husband's affair from most on my side of the family, even tho he was living with PT for months. Intend to keep doing so. I agree, helping each other maintain dignity is respectful and important. Besides, it's no one else's business, is it?<P>He broke a vow. So did I. Not THAT one, but I broke some too. Helped to create the atmosphere that made us vulnerable. (No I do NOT take responsibility for the affair, that was HIS bad judgement, but I do take responsibility for my part in the marriage.)<P>So, what's my restitution for hurting him? How long and how publicly should I pay? <P>Revealing, in the name of total honesty and restitution, to her family the details of what I consider private business could be hurtful and devastating. And could change the opinion of others forever. How humiliating. Should she really be expected to pay forever for a mistake? I didn't think so, not this man who's working so hard to be a good husband.<P>I don't know, LooksGood. Seems like you've got a good thing going here. Sometimes we just need to take the ball and run with it - let go of the "stuff". But that's gotta be your call.<P>Keep up the good work.<P>lori<BR>

LooksGood,<P>I would say that this falls under the POJA... If both enthusiatically agrees, then by all means tell, otherwise keep it between the two of you.<P>In our case only my wife's parents know, because they got caught in the middle, while visiting us, which at the time was a good thing since they could take care of the kids while the adults fought it out.... But in the long run I think that it has complicated matters. My own side of the family knows nothing and we intend to keep it that way.<BR>There is absolutely no reason for them to know, since it could influence their behaviour towards my wife or both of us. We view the "incident" as something personal, that we do not want to share with either friends or family since we don't want anybody to take sides or making unsolicited remarks or questions about this.<BR>And once you tell, there is no way to take back the knowledge should whoever you tell, talk about this to other people etc.<P>So my advice would be to keep it to yourselves as much as possible.<P>Hope & Prayers to you and your family.

Appreciate your views J Willy and Popey. Your end of the spectrum has also been considered in my musings on the pros and cons of full parental disclosure. <P> They are fully aware of S visited back and forth and eventually lived with OP. They indirect encouraged (and the S's sibling directly encouraged) the affair with the approach that the OP was better for my S than I. They were left with the belief that I must have been such a bad person as my S "had" to leave. They are unaware that the OP was the reason for our marriage breakup. They don't know that the OP was an alcoholic, used S financially, was morally bankrupt and had no job.<P>Also they don't know that the OP was in fact our psychologist that was actively councelling us for a communication problem in our marriage when the sexual affair was started in his office during a private visit with S.<P>Dave Carter in "Torn Assunder" says that"the infidel will often show no tears of hurt" and "the more overwhelmed by pain the infidel is, the sooner the spouse will be able to begin and end the grieving, and the sooner they can both progress toward healing".<P>Should the betrayer not experience the painful facing of their infidelity with parents in order to correct the lie that it was all my fault that S left?<P>What form or kind of restitution is reasonable to expect from a S that has had an affair?<P>It's another great day, I'm alive, healthy and we're together again!<P>Have a good one. <P><BR>

Hi LooksGood!<BR>Do you have snow?<P>I've been thinking a lot about your question.<BR>Do you think there might be a compromise here?<BR>Is it possible for your wife to take responsibility for the separation without disclosing all the details to her parents?<BR>Maybe she could sit them down, tell them that the separation was her idea. That she innitiated it and it was not about what you were doing but about her confusion.<P>I understand what you are getting at with the restitution. I do believe that our spouses have much more pain than they reveal to us. They probably feel as though they have no right to even mention their pain when they have been the source of ours.<BR>Just my early morning thoughts. <BR>Have a good day!

Nice to hear from you again wasstubborn. No snow (didn't get the dump that was in the west) but first nice day today for the week. Always feels better and improves the spirit of optimism when the sun shines.<P>As Steve has said, the betrayer will never understand or feel the full extent of the effect of their affair even though they may say "I understand what I've done". Unless one becomes the betrayed the gut tearing and soul destroying results to the betrayed in an affair are never truly understood.<P>It has been suggested that S might get a better understanding of the consequences of their betrayal by correcting the wrong impression left with the parents by accepting the blame now residing on my shoulders. Any wider promugation of the facts definitely would be self defeating. No one - my family, my friends - have been told of S's affair or the real reason for the leaving. <P>My S claims more pain than is evident, claims affair was not satisfactory (the length and pictures of them together belie this), says she never really cared if it worked out, etc, etc. I believe S less upset by what she did but by the fact that she made a choice that turned out bad, bad, bad. Repentance and restitution are not in S's concious thinking.<P>My personal leaning is to accept parental disclosure and absolute truthfulness to my questions as significant repentance and restitution. Lies and minimizations to me continue about the affair and the lies told to parents remain as truths. Harleys and all other authors I've read (6 in all) state emphatically that unreserved truth is needed to build, or rebuild and sustain a healthy growing relationship. If S maintains a lie to her parents about me it runs counter to all advice about honesty and openess.<P>The main thing I've learned is patience and control of my emotions, make major efforts to fill S's needs and be grateful for any needs of mine that are filled to any degree. Expectations and requests for filing needs are LBs. I lavish affection, admiration, material benefits, I trust our present life together implicitly and wait for S's initiation of intimacies. My initiation is still a threat so tread slowly, lightly and with understanding. <P>Hope to have a number more opinions along with your valued input.<P>Hope too your situation is progressing favorably. If you dig up anymore material on our psychology profession, let me know.<P>Thanks again - have a great weekend, if not then a good one at the very least.

Yuck. Sounds like the OP was a winner! Still, I'd not say anything. It also sounds like you have in-laws like mine. No matter how bad the guy/gal was, they are going to defend him/her no matter what. I think telling would just turn them against you even more and not help things between you and your spouse.<P>I know what it is like to want the betrayer to feel my pain. Forcing it isn't going to make it happen though. It will likely drive him away.<P>I know what it is like to want people who love him to know what a jerk he is- especially when he is the golden child who could do no wrong and you are the horrible person who is holding him back. (not saying you, but projecting their thoughts). Just take some peace in knowing that he can't run from the truth forever. There is more dignity in letting them find out in their own time. Even if they never admit it to you, you can believe they will feel the horror of the way they treated you on the inside.<P>What kind of restitution can be expected? I think the depends on time. The infidel usually feels justified because you have "driven" them to do these things and you "deserved" to be treated this way. They don't usually feel any remorse at all at first. I think that comes when you can show them that you are sorry you made them feel rejected/unwanted/unattractive (fill in the blank) and that you are sorry. Unfortunately, it is usually us, the betrayed, who must hold out the olive branch before the ice can break.<P>My own personal story is that I wanted that crawl-on-your-knees-and-die-for-me type of forgiveness and it wasn't happening. I held the door open, but stayed hidden inside for fear of what other hurt he might inflict on me. It wasn't until I hunted him down, turned on the light, and brought him inside that he was able to feel my pain. He couldn't get past his anger and hurt enough to feel my pain. I understand that now and things are so much more different.<P>His parent's knowing is really not important in the grand scheme of things.