Hi all, here I am again and it's only been two months since I posted under Resolving Conflict. What happened? Well, in my last post I wrote that my h had a f friend at work he claimed to only be emailing, and I was uncomfortable about it having been in the same position 2years ago. That friendship became innappropriate and I felt this one was heading in the same direction. My h fought me long and hard over this subject and claimed I didn't trust him, etc. So he convinced me he had no desire to be other than friends, no lunch dates, no phone calls, no at home emails and I wanted to believe him. Then her job ended and she left and he told me not to worry cause she was gonna leave and it would all end anyway. Well, last weekend (she left on the friday a week before) I intercepted emails between them that had been going back and forth that whole week making arrangements for lunch the following monday and he even offered to treat her to lunch! He told her how good it was to hear her voice on the phone! I printed the email, threw it in his face, got very upset and promptly sent myself into preterm labor (I'm 34 weeks pregnant). I spent a week in the hospital with him constantly by my side, telling me he loves me and worrying over me. But at the same time, he also said I "misintrepreted" his email to her and he really didn't want to have lunch with her, just wanted to see how she was doing and only said he'd "treat" her to be nice, but had no intention of actually paying for her lunch!!! But...nothing has been said,no explanation of why he did that to me, he doesn't know why. He just did and he's sorry. I wish I could believe this will never happen again, but I know that in time it will. I don't know if there is some thrill involved in doing this because he knows I love him so much, I couldn't let him go? Now I am at home until I deliver baby and all I can think of is the chances he keeps taking and how I could have lost my baby because of it and how he couldlook me inthe eyes and lie to my face without blinking. He says he has been suffering guilt over what he wasdoing, but he was unable to stop himself. <BR>Now, he has changed the password on his email account but I keep getting it and he must be checking it everyday because he keeps changing the password but never says a word to me about it. He must know I'm getting the password? I wantt o ask him so bad why he changed the password to keep me out and if he's still talking to her. I believe maybe my h has some deeper problems and there are reasons he is doing what he's doing, but I don't think he will ever go to counseling. I can't even get him to read the posts on here, I even sent him one but all he said what that I am telling him who he can be friends with and who he can't and he doesn't like me picking and choosing his friends. He doesn't like me telling him what he can and can't do. Btw, I don't pick and choose his friends, he just doens't have any other than her. He can't seem to relate to men, so he seeks woman. And I was right about one thing, this ow has marital problems and he even told me they were "happy" but now admits they're not. Anyway, I'm starting to ramble and that wasn't my intent. I truly need help. I can't go anywhere, I'm outta work and can't afford counseling even if I could get out, and I'm slowly dying inside because I don't think this relationship is going to stop and even if it does, there will probably just be somebody else. I told him to leave, but with the baby coming, I can't make him go! Anyway, if anyone can explain what is happening here, please don't hold back.

Welcome back <B>Windy/Resolving Conflict</B>,<P>I sure you feel that the affair is in full swing...<BR>There are so many other signs...<BR>...I don't want to make you paranoid...<BR>...but for more reaffirmation check out... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/000985.html" TARGET=_blank>50 signs your spouse is having an affair...</A> <P>With your H not leaving...<BR>...you really need to be doing a good <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>! Confronting your H in a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busting</A> way will be counter-productive!<P>Post here a lot...<BR>Pull off everything you can get from this site...<BR>You can start off at <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders</A>!<P>I'm praying for you! And your baby too!<P> <P>Jim

Your H's comments about you being able to choose his friends should be one of those mutually agreed upon things. If someone is not a friend of the couple, they are not a friend to the individual. Why do I say that? If you have a friend who gives you advice to do things that would hurt your marriage, take time away from your marriage, and not share respect for both of you, it is going to cause trouble. Male or female, it makes no difference. <P>I used to have a lot of male friends before I met my H and thought keeping those friendships were no big deal. It WAS a big deal because it made my H unhappy and insecure. The time I spent with them was better invested in my relationship. I gave them up.<P>As for the secret passwords and stuff, I don't understand when I see that people have secret and separate anything. Separate bank accounts, separate friends, separate lives even. You are supposed to be married! Why aren't you sharing these things?<P>I know, my H had evidence I didn't see, but it wasn't because I didn't have access to it. It was because I trusted him so much that I didn't even look! Once the cat was out of the bag, there was a mountain of stuff leading to OW. He had nowhere to hide. <P>Anyway, sharing stuff like e-mail account passwords is a gesture of trust. I think you should be able to access his e-mail at any time.

Thank you Jim and Popeye for responding and for your advice and opinions.<P>Jim, I am still confused after reading over Plan A. I have looked over the lovebusters, and I don't think I've been guilty of them all, but suppose I must admit to one and that is the demands. But what confuses me about that is, if I don't "demand" that he end this relationship, he probably would not because to him, he has not committed a crime. But I also see that even though I told him I would leave him if I found out the relationship continued, he continuted it anyway!!! Did I leave him? No. What did I show him and what did he show me. That he was willing to risk it, and I was too weak to follow through on my threat! <P>And yet, I'm still left to wonder how I can know this relationship HAS in fact ended??? Do I really believe he will tell me it hasn't??? Been THERE before?? How does one know it's "over?" I personally can follow Plan A, but he has no interest in it. In fact, he doesn't agree with not having female friends, so in fact is setting himself up for this to happen again because he sees nothing wrong with it.<P>Popeye, I trusted my h completely until I found out about the first OW supposed "friend." The shock was a note in his pocket from him to her saying "i want to see you tonight." I believed him when he said he just needed someone to talk to. Then I found other "proof." He still didn't think he'd done anything wrong and anyway it was MY fault because I wasn't THERE for him. Two years go by and here we are again...<P>Anyway....how do I confront him about this change in email password without admitting I tried to get into it thereby discovering he changed the password???? And I completely agree with you about the friends issue. When I discovered this OW I asked to meet her and he wouldn't let me. That was myfirst clue! He said he didn't want to do anything that might promote the friendship beyond what it was (just daily emails to say HI). <P>Does my h even realize that he's lying?????<P>Thanks guys!<P>Windy

Windy,<P>Are we married to the same guy ? I think we are. From the things they say.<P>Have you tried asking him how he would feel if things were reversed ? I know he would probably say, it wouldn't bother me at all because I trust you . Thats what mine says.<P>Of course he trusts me, because he knows I couldn't do him like he's done me so often.<P>I did cheat on him early in our marriage, difference was I admited to him w/o him having to find out another way, and I learned my lesson. I wish he would !<P>I know this is so hard for you right now, expecting a baby and all. Try to take NSR's (Jim's) advice and also remember right now your baby has to be your first concern.<P>Talk to him about how him being totally honest with you is the only way you will be able to trust him at this point, hiding emails and anything else right now is only going to keep you upset and remind him that you being upset does endanger your child.<P>Keep posting it does help to be able to get it out , and to hear from people who were or are where you are. At least it helps you not think you are the only one.<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>Hepatitis C, educate yourself ! <A HREF="http://hepatitis-central.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://hepatitis-central.com/</A>

Deb, you are soooo right! I DID ask him about if the situation was reversed, and he DID say it wouldn't bother him because he trusts me!! He said he didn't care HOW many male friends I have!!! Funny thing is when we were apart before we got married (he's from England and was living there through part of our engagement) I DID have a male friend. I even did the lunch thing and all that and didn't think anything was wrong with it either until I realized how much it hurt him, so I ended it. Believe me, 4 years later it still comes up, yet somehow that is DIFFERENT from what He is doing????? I have NO desire to EVER go down that path again!!!! I don't look for friendships with men! He knows that I feel VERY strongly about this, but his only reply is "I have it under control." <P>Anyway Deb, thanks for understanding. I wonder if we are married to the same man.....

Windy,<P>I am in the same boat as you. My H saw how miserable his "friendship" (i have no proof of PA just EA) upset me and continued to befriend her. I cannot really offer you advice because this is not something that i have been able to overcome myself. And in a perfect marriage the H would say that this friendship is not as important as his family and end it - but unfortunately mine has not done that. I too threatened to leave if he continued - and he continued and i haven't left. So i am trying to stop snooping because it just makes me upset and unless i am going to take action why upset myself. My H also changed the password on his cellphone bill via the internet (and it doesn't come to the house) and won't give it to me. I try not to think too much about it -because eventually everything comes out. <P>Just take care of youself and enjoy the baby when it comes.<P>Good luck - you are not alone<P>Sam

Windy,<P>As you do more research into "what to do"...<BR>check out my compendium of Plan A posts/replies...<BR>It's from my <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000013.html" TARGET=_blank>Notable Posts/Threads</A>.<P><B>Plan A:</B><BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/010399.html" TARGET=_blank> TODAY I LOST IT!!!</A>…..ThisAlex/Genie29…..12/5/1999<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20000110-1-011323.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A - 101</A>…..NSR…..12/29/1999<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/000431.html" TARGET=_blank>Question for Plan A Veterans</A>…..lostva/K to quandry…..2/2/2000<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000023.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A.What's the amount of time? Help!!!</A>…..w.g.up.h…..2/2/2000<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/000484.html" TARGET=_blank>When is enough enough ?</A>…..Bozos_ Deb…..2/4/2000...<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/000477.html" TARGET=_blank>(related thread)</A><BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/002461.html" TARGET=_blank>To, Sir Hurts Alot</A>…..TomH…..4/19/2000<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000086.html" TARGET=_blank>Is Plan A just a big act?</A>…..kancan…..5/7/2000<P>Following through on <B>threats</B> (or evening just threatening) is a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Buster</A>.<P>...and just a reminder of the <B>full</B> definition of Plan A... from the book... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Plan A: Avoid <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3401_angry.html" TARGET=_blank>angry outbursts</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3402_disrespect.html" TARGET=_blank>disrespectful judgments</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3404_selfish.html" TARGET=_blank>selfish demands</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3403_annoy.html" TARGET=_blank>annoying behavior</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3405_dishonesty.html" TARGET=_blank>dishonesty</A> (i.e. <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>!) at all costs. (page 75 of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A>)...<B>and</B> at the same time, if your spouse would let the you, you should try to meet your spouse's most important <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>. (page 77 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><OL TYPE=1><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3305_aff.html" TARGET=_blank>Affection</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3310_sex.html" TARGET=_blank>Sexual Fulfillment</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3315_conv.html" TARGET=_blank>Conversation</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3320_rec.html" TARGET=_blank>Recreational Companionship</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3325_hon.html" TARGET=_blank>Honesty and Openness</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3330_att.html" TARGET=_blank>An Attractive Spouse</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3335_fin.html" TARGET=_blank>Financial Support</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3340_dom.html" TARGET=_blank>Domestic Support</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3345_fam.html" TARGET=_blank>Family Commitment</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3350_ad.html" TARGET=_blank>Admiration</A></OL><P> <P>I hope that helps.<P> <P>Jim<BR>

You should def. be suspicious of someone or a relationship that your H fights his wife over. My wife fought me over her ex saying he was just a friend - she almost had me convinced (she ended up sleeping with him). But she would get so very aggressive when I wanted her password or wanted her to stop chatting with him. These two signs jump out at me now but then I tried to be understanding, loving and not jealous.<BR>If your wife or husband refuses to divulge any information about anything it is either 1)a huge birthday surprise or 2)something he or she doesn't want you to know and it is bad or they wouldn't mind showing you.<BR>The problem is this once your trust is burned it takes so much to get it back it is unreal. You may want to talk with him about this. Maybe explain that you are trusting him to do the right thing here and if he betrays your trust it will take years to get it back. My W and I are suffering right now because of the trust that was lost (and she won't stop lying) but it is making our recovery so much harder. But you have to watch because if you trust him to do the right thing that may be different to him then it is to you. My case again - I think sex with someone during seperation is infidelity and my wife thinks it is o.k. So I thought we were both going to do the right thing and her right thing was wayyyy different then my right thing. I wish I had answers but all I can offer right now is sympathies and suggestions.

Jim, thanks for providing all the very helpful information for me. I'm still confused on some issues, but I find that the more I read and the more I post, the easier it gets for me. It is so wonderful when people take the time to help others by answering questions I'm sure they've heard a millions times! Anyway, I hope to be that strong some day and be able to help others going through this.<P>SoUnHappy, I am so sorry you are going through the same thing. I tell you when I went into preterm labour it scared the heck outta my husband!! I can't imagine the guilt he must have right now, although I have never blamed him for it! Anyway, he has, from what he tells me, ended the friendship, or she did. I think that I didn't mention that I sent her an IM telling her to leave my h alone or I'd tell hers what was going on. Now whenver I sign on my computer, if she's there she signs right off!! She thought, I suppose, that I was my h cause she has me on her buddy chat! It's my one source ofpleasure in the whole thing, knowing that I make her nervous. Do I feel bad that I did that? NO! And I'd to it again too!!<P>Anyway, h even wants to cancel all email and just have one between us. He seems to be really trying to gain back my trust! I know it'sg oing to be hard for him because he has never seen anything wrong with having friends of the opposite sex. But..Ican tell you from experience that that doesn't work for me because I've NEVER had a man who just wanted to be myfriend. I've always discovered an ulterior motive behind the desire to be friends. I know that's not true for all men and all people, but that's the way it was for me. Now, Iam friends with my boss, but it is strictly in the open, IOW's we don't email each other privately, have lunch, talk alone, etc. or discuss our personal lives. Make sense? <P>Anyway, lost my train of thought. I don't think that I could continue with my h if he continued to keep secrets. Honesty is So very important to me. The only thing lacking is he still is not very affectionate with me and I don't understand why not...I just want to be held right now since sex is outta the question with my condition...but I never deny him his needs (almost feeling like he's selfish there, but can't say that if I offer, right?) All I want is to be held and cuddled. I hope in time, that will get better too. Hang in there! I wish I could tell you to make him share his passwords, that if he wants to rebuild the relationship he MUST be open, but only you know what will work best for your situation. You just have to decide, as we all do, where we will draw the line, and if we do draw the line, are we prepared to let them cross it again. <P>Thenewbie, thank you for you input. I seem to have this sense of intuition that I just KNOW when something isn't right. Either that or my h is terribly transparent because I always KNOW when he's hiding something or up to something. It eats me upwhen I know because I confront him, he denies everything, and than I have to "catch" him. And yes, I do snoop, mostly outta my very strong desire NOT to be made a fool of. And I agree with you that oftentimes our ideas about what the "right thing" is are often not the same which is how we got into this mess in the first place! He kept telling me to trust him and that he had it "all under control." I couldn't seem to convince him that whether he had it under control or not was NOT the issue. It was hurting me and THAT was the issue! It just didn't click! He THOUGHT that as long as they weren't having sex, then he wasn't doing anything wrong! Go figure that one!!! Most of us know, I think, that eventually these kind of EA result in sex...that is the danger! I wanted my h to understand that I could be his best friend again and he could confide in me about anything, even me! That is what we are currently working on, and I DO see him making small baby steps in that direction. I know he might still have females friends, but he must learn where to set the boundaries! He may never learn! I don't know. Trust is a very fragile thing, and I hope I am strong enough to give that back to him.<P>Thank you for your sympathies, and I offer you mine as well! Hang in there!<P>Windy<BR>

You may want to read some of the thread "Humbly Requesting Advice" There are a few good posts in there about what your husband could do to help you (if he is serious about ending things and rebuilding trust).<BR>I just hope he has ended things and really wants to make things right between you two instead of just calming the waters so that he can carry on hopefully unnoticed.

Windy,<BR>You are not alone. Unfortunately I have no answers except to hang in there and work on the marriage. I keep hoping that if the marriage is good the OP will not be a real threat. <P>My H started what I thought was an EA on the internet. When I confronted him with evidence he agreed not to contact her again except on listserv business (he runs a listserv). That agreement has gone by the wayside. Although the level of talk is not what it once was I sense that it may go there again. We have started counseling and things seem to be going pretty well with our marriage. But this one area is very disturbing to me. He seems to see nothing wrong with talking to this woman. He says I should not tell him who to be friends with, etc. (just like your H and SoUnhappy's). He has his own computer and is very sophisticated with it (I am total novice). Every once in a while I can access his messages but he has either encrypted them or hidden them somewhere on the computer.