Gee, isn't it amazing?? W's vacuuming downstairs tonight!! We've lived in this house for 2-1/2 years and in the last couple of days, she's giving it the first complete cleaning(for her). I've done this lots and lots of times, but her real estate appraiser is coming tomorrow. Could there be some connection????<P>I attempted to have a frank talk tonight with her about the future. I asked that if she moved out, would she have any desires to putting the divorce on hold. She said yes. I continued that if we did that, would she feel that she could continue to remain faithful. She said she couldn't as she didn't want any rules placed on her. Guess that cinches it!! Full divorce mode. Given the option, I do not want to be married when she f**ks this guy again!!!! Sorry for the graphic word, but it's how I feel right now. Someone please send me a women who will care about me and my feelings and not be totally self-absorbed.<P>I guess it's time for me to leave here and find a good divorce support site......<BR>Bye for now, I need more wine.....<p>[This message has been edited by Heartpain (edited December 05, 1999).]

HP,<P>I want you to take a look at my post regarding the new outlook. Come back and tell me what you think. Your'e still pushing too hard. I know it's tough.<P><P>------------------<BR>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P><BR>

MEDIC -- You know, I thought that trying to start a conversation tonight would possibly open up things like it did for you. I went with her today to look a townhouses for her to rent and was open, friendly and tried to discuss it like it was very matter-of-fact. The reality is that it hurt like hell while I was there, but I never let on.<P>My reactions in our conversation were nothing like my post. I was calm, friendly and understanding. I kept repeating that the honesty was important and nothing that was said could hurt me. Doesn't matter. Susan is <B>not</B> Val. She seems to really wants to be single again, and so she shall.

Heartpain,<P>Man, I know how you feel. My H is in FL right now boinking the OW. It SUCKS!!!!! I HATE it!!!!! <P>What can I say???? Nothing motivation really. But, I will say that although I DETEST this, i still love my H and would like for us to get back together. The big jerk is having such a good time - probably never thinks of me, either.<P>Only thing that has kept me here - in my heart of hearts I believe this thing could really die. I do believe that if I can wait long enough, my H and OW will eventually break up. Who knows how long that mght be and whether I can make it that long and still love my H???????<P>Do the best you can, Heartpain. The only thing I caution you against is making the decision for the divorce based on the anger you are expressing through your post.<P>PLEASE think about it before acting. Your W might change her mind in the coming days and you want to be sure that you have thought out ALL the implicaitons before doing something so permanent!<P>Hugs to you and a candle lighted in Georgia...<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Heartpain}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Sorry HP,<P>I was just trying to help. I really don't understand what happened between us that the walls and the resentment disappeared. I wish I knew and could bottle it and give it to one and all here.<P>If you still hold resentment towards your W it will be shown in your voice. Val told me she could hear that I despised her. I was trying to hide it too. I guess they can just tell. I couldn't.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P><BR>

RMA -- Thanks so much for the hugs and the candle in Georgia. Georgia, I have only visited there on business trips, but it is a lovely state.<P>The divorce is only two steps away from being final anyway. The way I was raised and my core beliefs cannot tolerate being married to someone who is boinking someone else. I can't help this, it's the way I am. She mentioned to me once a month or two ago that among the freedoms she wants is "emotional freedom". Now the only thing that could mean is the freedom to love OM. It doesn't necessarily mean anything physical, but emotional infidelity is just as bad if not worse than physical infidelity.<P>The problem I have is that my love for W is deep enough to last a long time and cause me tremendous heartache. I don't need that in my life right now. I need someone who is supportive, loving and I can depend on. W at this point can be loving and maybe supportive, but I cannot depend on her.<P>Besides, if you read my previous post, once she sees her therapist on Friday and realizes some of the secrets I <B>do</B> know, it will be over anyway. She sees the fact that I know something thru means other than her as much worse than <B>what</B> it is, regardless of the subject.<P>I regret having to do the things I did to know what was really going on, but I am glad I did them. I don't like being played for the fool.<P>I know that once W fires it up with OM again, that even if it fails, she will look elsewhere than me. She fails to recognize how much of our situation is due to her history prior to me.<P>There has got to be someone out there somewhere who can appreciate me for who I am and how I can treat them(like a queen). W has never appreciated this and only found fault in me to excuse her own shortcomings.<P>Maybe I'll feel differently in a few days, but I doubt it. Enough is enough. I still appreciate your input. It does make me think more on this.....

Medic -- You <B>never</B> have to apologize to me. I respect you too much for that. If "I'm sorrys" are needed they should be coming from me. You are trying hard to help and I want you to know it is very much appreciated. I feel so good by what happened to you. I don't rule it out completely for me, but it's the slimmest of slim chances.<P>I really didn't have any resentments until the conversation was over. I really want to know the truth and how things really are and am willing to accept what comes my way. She just continues to throw these curves and then says that I'm the one to play games.<P>I guess that as I started typing this post, I just got wound up tighter than a watch spring. The bottom line is that she is going to have to leave even if it is just to give us space. But I will not tolerate additional "boinking". I draw the line there.<P>Please keep responding to my posts. I do want to hear your point of view. I'm just getting like new_beginning right now. Fed up(and then I try to get her to calm down...go figure).

HP,<P>Did you get a chance to read ThisAlex's post on Today I lost it!<P>Genie29 pretty much describes what happened to me. Lots of good advice in there. She just can type better than I can.<P>Hang in there buddy! If you truely don't want a divorce don't get it. I used to be hung up on the physical stuff too. Now I just don't think about it. He may or may not have her body, but, I still have her heart!<BR><P>------------------<BR>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P><BR>

Heartpain,<P>You know what is th ekicker in all this?? Look at all of us who are here getting support to move our lives forward as best we can. Look at all of us her who are trying to LEARN something from the infidelity - whether we are the betrayer or the betrayed. We read books, go to therapy, get advice - come here for stress release or to get comfort and support. In essence, we are really TRYING to become better people and a better partner. Then, I think of our foolish spouses who AREN'T here or aren't working on improving themselves at all. Most of them are just limping along or driving on a NASCAR track at 200 miles an hour with a blindfold on!!!! <P>When all is said and done, WE will be the best partner for out spouse. We will know how to BEST meet their needs and understand how important relationships are and the do's and don'ts. If they don't take advantage of all that we have learned - THEIR loss and some other person's gain!<P>I KNOW I will be a FANTASTIC partner for someone else if my H can't see what a gem he's got!!!!!!<P>Candle is still going.........<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Thanks, Medic. The problem is, at the moment, no one has her body(I did until last week), but I don't even have her heart. We are still best friends <B>when</B> she wants us to be(which is less and less). I feel so like a puppet. Pull my strings and I will dance for you.

Hi, Heartpain.<P>Gets yuckier and yuckier doesn't it? <P>In fact, I think I'm gonna pour myself a glass of wine, too. Then I'll type my ridiculous post for the week. <P>Just wanted to let you know that I was thinking about you. Give yourself some time. And a break.<P>Lori

RMA -- I guess we were posting at the same time. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I KNOW I will be a FANTASTIC partner for someone else<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I do believe this about myself, also. But I didn't want to be someone else's until now. I'm a good person and I deserve much better than what I've got now(is that ego or what?).<P>Anyway, hope that's a really, really <B>big</B> candle!!

Hey, Lori, thanks. I'm really good tonight at replying at the same time as others. BTW, is yucky strong enough for what we go thru? I'm not sure, but I don't think so.<P>I've been thinking about you, too, even if this post doesn't show it. I will wait with bated breath for your "ridiculous" post of the week.<P>All of us here on the board will survive because we have each other.

Heartpain,<P>HELL NO! That's not ego - that's fact -driven from a strong sense of self-worth and confidence. Yeah, man..... <P>I have always had that self security too but my H's ongoing affair knocked me down like a squished bug! I have begun to spring back up and let me tell you - there is NO doubt in my mind that I will have another love in my life if H and I D and when I am ready for someone else in my life. <P>No bragging, just faith and belief in myself and right now I have more faith and belief in myself than in my H!! <P>I think it is WONDERFUL that you have a strong sense of inner strength here. I have always been so strong. Friends and family who know me can not believe I let this affect me so. I can hardly believe it myself. I also have strong values and always said I would never put up with infidelity. [censored], here I am. <P>I am having difficulties reconciling all this. It goes against my grain for sure. I guess my doing the PlanB as best I can, I am trying to cut my H out of my life and move forward, but not D yet - not quite ready to throw it in. <P>So, how do I reconcile "letting" him still be married to me and he's still screwing around on me????? I HAVEN'T.......<SIGH>!<P>Lori, I am going to pour my glass of wine now, too.<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

RMA -- Actually, I'm on glass number four, but it's not really that much since W helped with two of them. I'm such a f**king nice guy, that I let W share my wine glass because she doesn't feel like she wants to commit herself to having to drain a glass she poured.<P>You know, I'm really sorry for the vitriol tonight. I really can't help it. I need to vent somewhere. I just hope I don't offend you good people too much.<P>Before all of this happened, I truly believed that if W cheated on me, it would be over immediately. Either my leaving or kicking her a$$ out. I have been totally amazed at what my reaction truly was. Sadness, crying, trying to understand what had really happened, wanting immediately to start to work things out. There wasn't the violent anger I expected. It's only coming now at the end when the frustrations are at their peak.<P>I guess none of can truly predict how we will react to a life crisis until we come face-to-face with it. It's really amazing...

Yes, heartpain, it <B>is</B> truly amazing.

nb(Sheryl) -- You know, I sit here wallowing in my self-pity, but when I think of what you and some of the others here have gone through, I feel somehow unworthy, untested and untried. I should by that token, feel less uneasy, but I guess nightmares are relative to our experiences. What to some of us are unbearable are a drop in the bucket to others.....