Well the counseling session last night was the first after my wife asked for separation. She asked for separation due to my anxiexty and depression which resulted in pressuring her to begin working on our marriage. (I suspected an EA)<P>The counselor clearly stated to us and mostly to my wife that we must begin to reconnect or we will be headed for divorce. My wife responded by saying she just did not know what to do. She said she felt detached and did know what to do about it.<P>The couselor suggested holding hands or going out while talking or enjoying an activity together. My wife replied by saying that she did not want to "pretend". The conversation then went in another direction.<P>It is clear to me that my wife is still harboring very negative emotions and feelings toward the relationship. She remebers no recent or past positives or good times together. She sternly refuses to let herself go and feel her emotions good or bad.<P>I am working hard on correcting my issues and am trying to be patient. But the separation though only two weeks is confusing my two sons. And its becuz their mother cannot feel or emote in a healthy way to her husband. I do not like what my sons are going thru. They are so healthy emotionally and spiritually that I would hate to see this set them back.<P>When will she decide? I don't know. What should I do? I have tried to reach her with my changed attitudes and actions. Cooked her favorite meal on Mothers Day. (filet mignon w/ sauteed tiger shrimp) Will the shell crack or am I dealing with a total conflict avoider. This is not the first long term relationship that she has just tried to step out of with little or no emotional or rational explanation. For all practical purposes she has been gone sinec Feb 4 (the last time we made love) She was very detached then and continues to be so. She had lunch with her boss clandestinely the next day.<P>What can I do. I am in therapy.<P>Oh by the way for the depressed and anxious posters please check out these sites for help with depression and anxiety.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.feelinggood.com" TARGET=_blank>www.feelinggood.com</A> <A HREF="http://www.rebt.org" TARGET=_blank>www.rebt.org</A> <A HREF="http://www.soulselfhelp.com" TARGET=_blank>www.soulselfhelp.com</A> <P>They have helped me see myself differently.<P>Please respond competently.<p>[This message has been edited by john meade (edited May 16, 2000).]

John,<P>You are definitely on the right track, and it is a very hard thing to do - as someone said, "Plan A aint for wimps".<P>It sounds like you still have a lot of opportunity to ride out the storm and perhaps see some results because of your changed behavior. Keep doing what you are doing, because it has kept your "foot" in the door, so to speak.<P>It does sound like she is an incredible conflict avoider - so my advise is to continue being patient, and don't address issues that you want addressed, play the "friend" game if you want to keep your foot in the door.<P>A conflict avoider will have their head in the sand, and even if a bomb is going off above ground - they will see the person that is trying to help them get the head out of the sound as the problem, not the bomb. Irrational, but it is because they don't have the skills to deal with the conflict. Stubborn. Fearful. Protective.<P>A conflict avoider is going to go for "feel good" situations whenever possible. Some conflict avoiders cannot choose "do what is right" over "do what feels good". <P>As someone said, "Knowledge is power". You need both. <P>She needs to see you as a person of strength, her friend, someone she can turn to, and someone that will accept her unconditionally. Difficult when you are being treated so badly and being betrayed.<P>But, she wouldn't even allow you to cook for her, she wouldn't allow herself to go to counseling, or anything - if there wasn't still something there.<P>I'll keep praying for your wife. <P>God Bless You,<BR>TNT

Well the first couple of sessions are information gathering anyway. She's sharing her feelings and that is good. Let her get things off her chest, and then look for action. She needs the opportunity to be heard before she's ready to be in a place to start doing any of the work. <P>Hang in there.

If she's really closed off in counseling she may need to go to counseling by herself for a while and deal with things that are eating away at her more privately before she will feel comfortable sharing those things with you. I know I felt that way. Joint counsleing pushed me further into my 'hole'. I was too afraid to open up to more than one person at a time. I had to come to grips with my own feelings before I could begin to even think about sharing them with my H. I am still in individual cousneling, but will consider joint counseling again as soon as I feel I can handle it. I'm getting closer, but I'm not there yet.

john, our situations are so similar, except my H moved out in Feb. (I ushered him out though)<P>He was having an EA with a coworker. It has been six months since D-day. He has been in counseling himself. We are going to go to joint counseling this week. He wouldn't agree to this in the beginning.<P>My H is also a conflict avoider. My story is that our 11 year marraige seemed better than fine to our families, friends and children. Told me he loved me everyday...went on a 10day trip with OP co-worker and started saying the same things as your wife. Being numb....not wanting to pretend. I didn't want him to pretend either. In fact I don't want him to pretend.<P>I have done plan A, but I (so does most others in our lives) beleive this is a problem IN him...It is depression, lack of self esteem, lack of selfconfidence or something....triggered by a horendous work situation for the past two years. <P>My H has tended to pass the buck as far as his unhappiness goes. It just became my turn when he seemed to have found his "savior" at work.<P>I have planned A from afar (meaning he doens't live here). I have believed in him throughout all of this, and I know that I LOVE him unconditionally. It is now about 4 months of his own therapy, and guess what...he told me that the problem is within him and not me!!!!!!! What this means for us I don't know, but we are going to counseling.<P>I think I read a post of yours before and in it you discussed her possible depression or low self esteem?????? Perhaps she does need some counseling herself. Of course, we can't make anyone do anything. People have to want to deal with it.<P>I am interested in the fact that the counselor mentioned staying in "touch". My H and I actually lack that right now. We were very affectionate to eachother up until the night befor the trip..... After the trip he told me he didn't remember being intimate with me!!!!! Go figure.<P>SHarley talked to me about the "addiction" being like a warm blanket. When you are warm and you want to stay that way, you will tell yourself that what you had (spouse, family) is cold.....you will want to go to the warmth.<P>Is your wife in contact with OP???? Do you suppose this is the withdrawal????? I think by MB principles you are supposed to do plan A during this time. I think it is so great that she is going to counseling with you. I really hope you are able to get to the conflicts. <P>I am worried about counseling. I can't even imagine what my H is going to say. He has said nothing other than to deny he has been any other way (ie happy, a good dad). I have only gotton vague responses from him.... He himself cannot seem to pinpoint what the problem is with us. <P>I can see how the OP in my case, met his needs. She worked with him 10 hours a day and on weekends in a high stress job, she drove to places they had to work at, she went to lunch with him every day.... My H saw me and the kids for 2 hours a day!!!!<P>I think you have to be patient. She does need to come to some conclusions herself. I guess the best advise is to keep plan aing and learning about yourself along the way!!!

My wife does want individual counseling and I think she would benefit from it. I just don't want to stop the joint counseling becuase it seems to be helping a little each time.<P>She has mentioned to me that she has issues that she needsto work on but I don't know what they are. She has a history of just walking away from elationships with little or no explanation. She avoids conflict and resolutions and simply just walks away. She has admitted that is what she was doing here. I would not let her. We have to kids and they need a strong two parent family.<P>I am so tied in knots. I want to hold her and show compassion for her needs but she is just so damn resistant. I have had no genuine affection from her in over 3 months.<P>I am in therapy myself for depression and anxiety over this and "perfectionist" tendencies. I am excited about the help I am getting.<P>I just want to touch her soul and feel her love again. I have always wanted that. I miss my children and feel detached from them becuz of her coldness.<P>How can I go on like this? There are no easy answers. Any commnets?

I don't know if you are a religious man, but faith helped me a great deal through this period. I don't think God heard my voice so often as he did during that period of time. It takes a great deal of patience and strength, and sometimes you need to find that from higher sources. <P>Just a thought.

OK. As you may know I am separated from my wife and kids for 2 weeks now and I am not liking it. I have been depressed and am getting better. My wife asked for the separation so she could have space to think. I have suspected an EA but have no proof, other than changed behavior and several untruths and secrets.<P>My question is do I ask her to move back in or wait for her to ask. My kids are asking where there daddy is daily and they want to know if we are fighting (ages 5 and 3). I want to be in my home. Should i ask her to leave if she wants space. I don't want to compromise the small progress we have made. Or do I suffer and continue to somewhat Plan A. I admit that it was difficult to Plan A when my head was not screwed on right. I was irrational and depressed with tremendous anxiety. Like I said I am better now.<P>What is the best course of action. I want to restore our marriage but I almost feel I need to be more assertive now that my thinking has cleared.<P>Please help with a thoughtful response.

John,<P>Just my take on things...<P>You should try and move back in with your W and kids...<BR>...it gives you a better chance to demonstrate Plan A behavior.<P>If depression is a problem...<BR>...think of seeing your MD for some anti-dep medication.<P>Your W may not be thinking straight either... (sometimes... not always... but sometimes) that's the reason for asking for more space... Other times... it is to continue the affair. Maybe she too can consider some medication.<P>In general I tell the H's... don't leave the house...<BR>...with you out...<BR>...I'd suggest anyway to work yourself back in...<BR>...even if it's a gradual transition!<P>AND...<P>Plan A your butt off!<P> <P>Jim