Well, I'm still stuck in the old rut.<P>No, I don't <B>think</B> H is seeing Cafe Woman again, but he is acting "funny." He has developed an "aversion" to going to her restaurant for lunch with me, although he has been there at least a couple of times without me (he doesn't know that I know it). He doesn't want to go out with me locally, although he will go along if I want to go out to the bar (once every week or two). Cafe Woman was there the last time we went, and the atmosphere was rather awkward.....not for me; I was friendly and had a good time talking to everybody there. H and Cafe Woman were the ones not talking. ?????<P> H seems to be acting "cold" toward me again. The affection from him has slacked off. The sex life is still there, but still is just him reaching for me after I get into bed.<P> Now for my plotting and scheming. I don't believe he would pass up sex with another woman if he thought he could get away with it. So, (talk me out of this!) I'm considering "setting him up" to see.<P> His birthday is next month, and D and I are planning a surprise party for him. For his 50th birthday, I hiredd a "nerd" stripper, which turned out to be a disappointment for him (although the act was really cute); he wanted a "real" stripper. So.....I'm considering getting him a "real" stripper, only with a twist. I plan to arrange all this through a PI.<P> This stripper will "come on" to him really big and give him "her" cellphone number, inviting him to give her a call. In reality, the cellphone number will be for a new cellphone that I buy for me. I will have the stripper record a voice-mail greeting, but I will have the phone.<P> If H calls the cellphone and leaves a message, I will call the "stripper" and arrange for her to call him back and make a date. The address she will give him will be my best friend's new apartment address in another town(which H doesn't know). I don't know if I will arrange for the stripper to be there (due to cost), or if I will be the one to answer the door. Either way, H would be caught if he takes up the stripper's offer. If he doesn't take up the offer, it would be immensely reassuring to me. <P>My purpose in doing this? To see if I'm right in my belief that H has probably cheated much more than the one time to which he admitted. And, if he takes the bait, maybe we can force our issues out into the open. The only reason he admitted to the thing with STD Tramp was because he thought I was fixing to divorce him (and probably clean his slate). I really feel like the only way to get anything more out of him is by creating a situation where he either has to come clean or risk losing everything.<P>Manipulative, yes. But, I'm at my wits' end as to how to ever resolve these issues with a H who absolutely refuses to discuss the issues. Even the slightest reference to his cheating or any indication from me that I don't trust or believe him is a major lovebuster.<P>As for me...well, we're leaving next week on an 11-day camping trip to Wyoming (with another couple, (his idea) so no privacy or much chance for any romance ). When we get back, I'm joining a health club so I can get in shape. I'm also putting money aside for my own financial protection, because I really feel that I will eventually get completely fed-up with all this stone-walling on his part and leave. Bear in mind that I have already been dealing with this mess for at least 14 years. My patience is getting awfully thin. I have, however, learned how to hold my tongue when I get angry. .<P> So, please, talk me out of this hair-brained scheme.

ugh. it's a logistical nightmare. hopefully someone can come up with a better idea to share with you! im lost...<BR>hugs,<BR>julie

Dear Sweetpea,<P>For selfish reasons - I guess, I guess I'm too curious - and I want to know too..... <P>But it is a hairbrain scheme... But I wouldn't put it past you! Any person who would dress up and go out of town, to spy on her husband (wig, sunglasses etc.....) would probably do anything to find the truth. So, I'm afraid all my talking to you won't stop you!!!!! You amaze me! You know, you should get with Dazed and write a book.... It would be a best seller.<P>ugghhh!<P>I guess a bigger question is - what do you want to do if he bites the bait? What will you do if you find out his character and integrity isn't what you hoped it will be? <P>I'm sorry he's behaving odd again. <BR>Check out page 2 - I have a happy post for a change!<BR>God Bless.<BR>TNT

I think that may be a little overboard. Maybe you should stick with the standard stuff - snooping and tracking. It sounds expensive - there are other ways you can invest that $$. The other thing is this - what are you going to do if he takes the bait? Take him back? Bounce him out? One thing I have found is that you need to have a decision made about what you plan to do if you find out anything or nothing before you do anything. If you find out for knowledge sake it just hurts (if he takes the bait).

LWB and TNT,<BR> Yeah, thinking about this can get kinda nightmarish. I've considered having a female PI try to pick him up at the bar, but he's not going to the bar much anymore...maybe because I usually join him if he goes. So, that idea is out because anybody I hired would have to keep going out there until she hooked up with him, which would cost big bucks; and, I'm sure he would be looking over his shoulder to see if I was popping up...this being a small town and all.<P>The stripper would be coming from about 60 miles away, and I know my H would be at his own party so she could "hook up" with him. Since she would be from out of town, he ostensibly would believe that he could sneak around to see her if he wants to. Whether he takes the bait or not would be entirely up to him.<P>Basically, this is how it would go:<BR>1. The stripper shows up at the party and does her stuff.<BR>2. While at the party, she "comes on" to my H and gives him her cellphone number before she leaves. The cellphone number is really my new cellphone number, and I keep the cellphone.<BR>3. All I do now is wait and see if he calls the new cellphone number and leaves a message. If he doesn't call, everything is cool. If he does call, I move to step 4.<BR>4. After he calls the cellphone, I call the stripper and have her return the call and invite him to "her" apartment (which is really my best friend's apartment).<BR>5. When he gets to the apartment, I will be there. I will do one of the following:<BR> a. answer the door.<BR> b. be hiding in the guestroom while the stripper lets him in.<BR> c. let him go in, wait a few minutes, and then slip in through the unlocked patio door.<BR> d. let him go in, wait a few minutes, and then knock on the door.<P>Thenewbie,<BR> I haven't really snooped in a long time. It turned out to be impossible. We have a business and I run the store/office while he's out and about. We're in the residential construction business and he could be almost anywhere within a 100-mile radius during the day. Since the job sites are often in rural areas, there is really no way that he could be followed without his catching on. I talked to a PI about this, and he said that tracking my H could cost a small fortune, since they would constantly have to switch different operatives and vehicles.<P> H is too smart to use our phones or his cellphone to call anybody. Too many of his buddies have been caught that way. In the past, he has made comments that so-and-so was really stupid to be talking to his GF from his home phone. If he ever went to Cafe Woman's house, I don't know it. I don't think he would be stupid enough to do that, either. And, I can't just ride by her house to see if he's there, either. She lives in a lake development on a dead end street, and I'd have to actually turn uphill and go down the street to see her house. That would create some comment, especially since all her relatives live in the same development.<P> I considered getting a GPS tracker to put on his truck, but was afraid that he would find it. H knows every back road in this part of the state and knows plenty of places where he could meet someone without anybody seeing them.<P> I've already made up my mind what I will do if he takes the bait. I will once again give him the opportunity to come clean and be completely honest with me, while letting him know that I expect him to go to marriage counseling with me, continue to be honest with me and really work on this marriage. I will stay in Plan A if he does. If he doesn't, then I will move to Plan B.

TNT,<BR> I'm so glad that things are going well for you! You really deserve it! It sounds like you had a really terrific Mother's Day!<P> My daughter brought me some beautiful magnolia-scented candles, and my son brought me a big beautiful bouquet of flowers. H cooked breakfast and lunch, but he usually does that anyway. He didn't wish me Happy Mother's Day. So, yesterday, I bought H's "gift" to me...a new video camera for us to take on our trip. It's also his Father's Day and BD present. Forget the anniversary present; I'm never celebrating that day again. H may start "remembering" these holidays in self-defense....he wouldn't spend so much money! <P> Enjoy your new lake home! Pssst! Make sure YOUR NAME is also on the deed!!!!

got it!!!!!!! <P>I will! I learned my lesson already!<P>(thanks for the reminder.... )

How much is this plan going to cost you? You should search the net for snooping ideas. Try searching on spy or something like that. Depending on how much you want to spend you could undoubtedly put a bug on his car and listen in on his cell phone conversations.

Sweetpea--<P>When would this occur? I don't wanna miss any posts!<P>I'm not with the majority on this one, apparently. As long as you understand the consequences of what may happen, I say go for it. <P>Laura

OK, maybe I'm weird or something but I guess I couldn't do all this undercover stuff. I am way to honest and forthcoming than that. My advice, tell him out and out and simply what is on your mind and how you feel he's acting and the reactions you feel you should subject him to. Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe it wouldn't work with him, just the way I would handle it. God Bless!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!

TNT, I'm glad you're looking out for yourself! <P>Thenewbie, This shouldn't cost more than $500 and even less if I don't have the "stripper" meet H at my GF's apartment.<BR>Putting a bug in his truck wouldn't work. We both drive diesel trucks, and you can't hear anything on a tape if the truck is running. I already tried it on my truck. Besides, the road noise would probably use up all the tape. If he's talking to Cafe Woman or anybody else on his cellphone, he's not doing the calling. The phone bills come to my office and he knows that the outgoing calls are itemized. We don't have the Caller ID on cellphones in our area yet, so I can't get a record of the incoming calls.<P>Laura, the party is planned for June 10th, and H's birthday is June 13th. I was thinking of having the "stripper" tell him that she doesn't have anything planned for the 13th and that if he's going to be in her town, to give her a call and maybe she could "treat" him to ...er--lunch.<P>Bren,<BR> My H won't talk. He is still extremely defensive and reacts with anger if he thinks I'm even touching on the subject of his cheating, which is one reason why I'm convinced that he hasn't told me the whole truth. I've decided that the only way I'm ever going to get the whole story out of him is by creating conflict that he can't avoid. In short, he has to be put on the spot. I walked out on him last summer, which is the only reason he admitted to the STD Tramp fling---after 13 years of lying to me about it. Why did I walk out on him? Because I had asked him, and he had agreed, not to go anywhere around Cafe Woman unless I was with him, and I caught him at her restaurant on a day when he knew that I was operating our business alone (our daughter was off that day) and he didn't think I would close up and check him out. I was furious and let him have it all over the place until a customer came into our store, at which point, H said, "Well, I'm going back to work now." and left. That was when I really went ballistic (after the customer left). I left him a letter, closed up shop, went home, packed my bags and left. I parked my truck at the airport in a nearby city, rented a car, and checked into a motel in my own town....complete with disguise. Like TNT says, wig, sunglasses....and, oh yeah, an old lady pants outfit a couple of sizes too big (to accommodate the fake boobs which visually added another 50 lbs. ). I was all over town, and H never even recognized me. He spent most of the day driving out to jobs and back to our store. He DID stay away from Cafe Woman that day, though! <P>I wish I <B>could</B> talk to my H and tell him how I feel, but he simply does not want to hear it.

I don't know if this is the answer. When you need to know, you need to know. I tried the talking, pleading, crying, bit and some guys are just not going to admit anything that they aren't caught red handed doing. Not for any reason. So what do you do?<P>I think the advice of knowing what to do once you know is really important. So, what do you do if he doesn't take her up on it? Keep snooping? Keep setting traps? There is a fine line between trying to catch him and enticing him to cheat.<P>If he doesn't go for it, how can you be sure he isn't involved with Cafe Woman or someone else? Just because he doesn't go for that one doesn't mean he doesn't have someone else.<P>Just something to think about.

Hi, Popeye,<BR> Basically, I believe that until H got involved with Cafe Woman, most of his cheating was probably just 1-night stands or purely for sex. I just want to make sure that he is finished with this type of cheating.<P> True, if he doesn't take the bait, he may have taken up with Cafe Woman again. About all I can do about that is wait and see. I do believe that he broke up with her immediately after I asked him if he was having an affair. It wasn't until after that that I was able to pinpoint WHO the affairee was,although in hindsight, I can see that I subconsciously picked up a few clues. Anyway, I believe that he broke it off with her because she was madder'n he!! at both him and ME. She is supposed to be a casual friend, and there was absolutely no reason for her to be angry with us---unless H had broken up with her.<P>H did, however, try to keep things "open" with her (before he knew that I suspected her. He openly flirted and carried on with her. He constantly talked about her, etc. He even rubbed up against her butt at a party one night....probably thinking I wouldn't notice. I did, and there was he!! to pay. Bear in mind that I had <B>never, ever</B> seen H do anything like that to any other woman in 30 years of marriage. That he did this led me to believe that there was indeed a sexual relationship, as opposed to being only emotional. <P>It was interesting that she had brought a new BF to that party. The BF is now gone (and boy, would I like to talk to him, since their breakup is rumored to have been really nasty!), and I am concerned that H might try to pick up on the affair again. <P>I have already caught him in one lie about Cafe Woman. If there was nothing between them, why the lie? My counselor (in the one session he attended with me) also picked up on the lie. H's explanation was that I imagined the first thing he told me, which was that about a year previously, Cafe Woman had asked him if I thought anything was going on between them. At the counseling session, he denied that she had ever asked him that, and also denied that he had ever told me that. So, any way I look at it, he lied. H's method of denial is to tell me that I "dream up all this s***". I really need to have a tape recorder going all the time! Sheesh!<P>I guess that I'm getting really tired of living with someone who doesn't really love me. Sometimes, I even think that I wish he would start back up with Cafe Woman so I have a good reason to kick him out. I'm just really tired of all this. I've been in Plan A for two years now, and basically, all I can see from the results is a H who grudgingly does as little as he can get by with to do to keep me from divorcing him and taking half of "his" stuff. He did buy me a beautiful diamond wedding band for Christmas, but he only did this because I told him in the counseling session that I no longer felt like we were married (and I still don't), that I'm a wife who has NO HUSBAND because he essentially divorced me when he had sex with someone else, and that I wanted us to "date", him to propose to me again, and renew our vows, with new rings and all. Well, everytime I suggest a "date", he doesn't feel like it; if we do go out, it always has to be with other people. Yes, he bought the ring that I picked out, and it was not easy finding a ring that I liked for a price that he would pay. He has made it clear that he will not renew our vows with me. Therefore, I wear the new wedding band on my right hand, and he has made no mention of that.<P>Sorry, I didn't mean to vent, but I've been holding this back for a long time now. I'm tearing up, so I'll stop posting now.

Well, I've set the wheels in motion.<P>I booked the stripper, and she is supposed to call me today for details. She is petite, with a big chest and long blonde hair--just the type my H seems to like. Found out that I didn't have to use a PI; the guy at the booking company said they do this sort of thing all the time.<P>I also got the new cellphone and have it safely hidden away.<P>I hope that H can be honest and straight up with me. If he hides the card she's gonna give him, then I'll know something's up. If he gives me the card or throws it away, then that will make me feel soooooo much better about things. So, I'm hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst. I feel amazingly calm about this.