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Joined: Oct 1999
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Well I nailed him to the wall but I don't think it changes anything. Found out he was at the lake (was thinking about stopping there on my way home from work should have followed my gut) He was with the OW spending the day there. He said he wasn't but I could tell the story didn't jive. He said he worked late and didn't get there till 8am. The only problem is that the guy that rides with him to work was home at 7am when I went by his house. 2+2 doesn't equal 4. He denied it.<BR> Asked him if the cookout was nice(found my aluminum foil in his truck) He said it had been in there funny I used it yesterday morning but couldn't find it this morning.<BR>The story gets better. He leaves for work and I tell him I am going to call the OW and ask her if she was with him. He said go ahead. So I followed him to where the guy meets him to go to work and I tell him I know he was with her that I just talked to her (didn't really but said i did) He just looked at me with a blank stare. Well then I did call the OW on her cell phone and imagine that it was her day off. But of course she denied being at my house, calling my house, sending the Valentines day cards that said I love you (she did ask if I had them and I said sure I can show them to you anytime) she said if we had problems that was between my H and I and I said she was in the middle. Of course they are just friends, she doesn't<BR>remember being at my house, my H truck being at her apartment about 100 times etc. I told her that I am a blond but I am NOT dumb. She<BR>said I really should ask my H and did he know I was calling her. I said actually yes I told him I was calling her. It gets even better. I come inside (I was talking on my cellphone) and the regular phone rings and it is her H. He says that she was there to pick up their son and he said she is lying again. She was suppose to be there at 4 to pick him up and didn't get there till 5 just about the time<BR>my H strolled in. Her H said that she actually told him she was having an affair with my H but now that it is time for them to sign their separation agreement that they are only friends. What a joke. They at least have their stories straight lying lying and denying. Then I find out she not only has what I thought were two kids but three. Her first H has the one. Her H told me he was surprised that my H would want her with all of her baggage and past record with men. He said if I needed him to testify about anything he would. I told him that if she was waiting to come live in my new house it wasn't going to happen and everything my<BR>H has or she thinks he has is because of me and when they take it all away there isn't much left but him. I just can't believe that my H the man I loved and continued to care<BR>about has said all of these lies and has continued to be with her. She is no good. I told him that too except in more explicit terms. I am a nice, fairly good looking, well educated woman who gave him the world and<BR> she is fat, foul mouthed, drinker, smoker and I hate to say it a few shy of a six pack if you know what I mean. What the h*** does he see in her that he doesn't have with me?<BR>I told him I want his net worth statement done and to his lawyer by Friday, that I need the court ordered $500 towards the mortgage and left him the rest of the bills that are in his name for him to pay when he gets his big overtime paycheck. That shouldn't leave too much to party on.<P>I have been so nice, done all the right things, counseling,antidepressants, Alanon etc and it means nothing to him. I told him I<BR>would not be treated like the front door mat any longer. Do you think he will wake up when his lawyer tells him exactly what he will lose? Is the OW worth it all? But do I really want him back? I have finally got mad and I know this is a marriage building sight but I have exhausted my arsenal and he has done nothing but stomped on me and my emotions. Let the low life scum sucker have him and when he realizes the grass is burnt up on her side I might feel a bit better.<P>He did come home this morning after work but it was just the same things over and over. He says it doesn't have anything to do with her and he just doesn't care anymore. I told him that we would lose everything we have worked for in the past twelve years and he said I know but I don't care. I thought at some point lots of time during the divorce that the WS finally wakes up and sees what he is giving up for the OW or OM. Statistics show that they usually don't end up marrying the OP and if they do regret it sometimes 6-12 months later. I think his brain is pickled and I am so stupid for believing anything he has told me only to be trampled on again. Even his mother was sticking up for him. She called looking for him and I told her truthfully that he hadn't been home since the day before. She said well he will show up. I told her that I was tired of him sleeping with another woman and acting with his family like everything is hunky dory. She said of course it was between the two of us. Enough said he is her son and that's that. I said I am sorry i brought it up. Goodbye. <P>Can things get much worse????????<BR>

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bc,<P>It looks like you may need to hit plan b now, in order to save any love you may have left for him.<P>They do and say such cruel and yes, stupid things !<P>I am so sorry you are hurting like this.<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{bc}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>Hepatitis C, educate yourself ! <A HREF="http://hepatitis-central.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://hepatitis-central.com/</A>

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can things get much worse? probably not. just dont get yourself thrown in jail! lol<BR>my H STILL will not give up OW, and she is this horrid, horrid slut. they just dont wake up, sometimes.<BR>you sound like you are doing ok, so keep up your meds and your support group, and keep yourself taken care of, and if he wakes up, great, and if not, then you'll be just fine.

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Hi BC -<P>Here're some BIG HUGS again....you sound like your surely need them.<P>I wrote a post on Missy's "need a reason" thread and would like you to read it please.....<P>You seem to still not have grasped that You CANNOT force him to realize anything or change what he is doing....WHY?<P>What is holding you in this way of thinking that you have?<P>Please answer these questions BC, they really need to be addressed. YOU are beating your head against this darn wall still and I want you to stop before you cause more permanent damage to yourself.<P>You have progressed for yourself with taking the steps of going to Alanon...make sure you continue.<P>You have not progressed to understanding that you have no control over H and whatever activities he is doing. <P>The only effect you will ever have on him is by changing your own behavior. You have not done that...."being real nice" is not a change. Concentrating on yourself and becoming secure with who you are and what you really want and then ACTING towards that new goal for your behavior IS a change. If he only sees and hears things from you about what he is doing, etc. - you are showing no signs of positive steps that you can take to create a better marriage and that you love him and believe in him.<P>Stop reacting and use your Alanon and other resources to start learning and understanding what the WHOLE picture is here.....it is NOT all about H and OW. <P>So, please read your posts and the post I wrote to Missy.....open you mind to what is said to you and let the garbage that you have heaped there about H and OW go!!!!<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba

Joined: Oct 1999
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Sheba,<P>I think it is too late. I know what you are saying and I wish I could do it but my H is very good at "pushing my buttons" and turning everything I say around. I have blown up, cried, screamed etc way too many times and he has totally given up on me. He sees me as a piece of dirt that he can use and abuse and I am weak because of what has happened. I told him today that I use to be a happy, confident,person with good self esteem and always looking to succeed in life. Unfortunately, the last eight months has robbed me of myself. My mother even commented that she wants to see the old "bc" back. <P>I just feel that with the drinking, binging, and lying and cheating with the OW that he has completely given up and in turn so have I. I have let him use me as a doormat for months coming and going and when he finally came home all I could do was be upset. How do you great your WS back after he has been off for the weekend with the OW by saying, "Honey glad you are home missed you love you." I have told him that I still love him want to work on our marriage and I am able to forgive him for his affair in addition I have made it very clear that I am here to support him in his drinking problem too.<P>None of this mattered. He just said it is over and that's that. He won't go to counseling because he doesn't have a problem. In the meantime I have become someone I don't even know that wants to just go to sleep and never wake back up to this ugly situation. Maybe a cop out and the easy way of thinking but he has stripped me of my self worth, self esteem, happiness and now we will lose our house and most of every thing else we have worked so hard to get in 12 years .<P>FOR WHAT???????????His choice of wanting what looked so good the OW who doesn't beg, plead, have to ask for money to pay bills, will drink all night and stroke his ego every minute. Well its a fantasy and she isn't a goddess by any means. She is a cold manipulating woman who is on her second divorce has three kids one of which was taken away from her and one that is with his father and the other shared custody with her soon to be ex. I can't believe that this person is someone anyone would want to have a lasting relationship with. Call me petty or stupid or whatever but How do you swallow something like this. I guess I just don't have what it takes to succeed. The old "bc" succeeded in everything and now I don't or am not even given a chance by choice of my H.<P>Sorry to rant but I am physically and mentally exhausted to the point that my physical well being is suffering. I am 36 years old with rheumatoid arthritis and due to the stress I am almost crippled in pain at times. Old way before my time while the H and OW just laugh and enjoy the best in life at MY expense.

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BC - this is going to sound strange but right now I am smiling with tears coming down my face!!<P>You see, this last post of yours is the start of what I have been trying to get you to do.....simply talk about YOURSELF and YOUR FEELINGS.....<P>To get you to show us what YOU are feeling about your OWN SELF...and not just keep telling us about H and OW.<P>It is YOU that we want to help you with!!! It is YOU that we want to "rebuild"!!!! If your H or the marriage benefits from that - then great, but right now that is not what all of us who have followed you have been too worried about. We have been worried about you and your own self-esteem!!!<P>NOW, FINALLY - you have said more to us in this little post than you have allowed us to know about you (from your own mouth...er...hands!!) since you have been here.....I am SO HAPPY!!!!!<P>You are not beaten BC....you are simply tired and unsure of what to do. You have been dealing with a situation that you didn't know the factors of (lying, cheating, blaming, selfishness), nor how to fix it or what to say or think, etc. and therefore you ended up completely overwhelmed and paralyzed. <P>IT's OK....it is all part of this and is not something that you should think is your fault. You are feeling what we ALL have felt - it's just lasting a little longer and keeping your strength and thoughts in a bad place. IT IS NOT YOU who has gotten lost in all this BC - It is your Husband that is truly lost!!<P>You have not been a "doormat" and I HATE it when that phrase is used....all you have been is a spouse who is caring, hurt and confused (like most of us) and had no idea of what to do nor how to do it!! (Again, like most of us!)<P>Boosting your self-esteem is not accompished by getting mad....or self righteous.....or giving up on either your H, yourself or your marriage. The true way to boost it is to realize that we are creatures who need to give the situations we find ourselves in all we have in order to get through them a better, smarter and a more lovingly aware person!!!<P>So, what do you do now? <P>WELL, let's look at the facts of what is going on.....<P>H has separated his life from yours...he has fled into a world of booze and women and has not gotten too deep into why he has done this......or has he? What has he said about you or the marriage that you CAN actually have a hand in accomplishing something with?<P>You have been paralized and exhausted with the journey and need to build strength and self-esteem...how can that begin? It has to begin or else you will just what?....wither....stay confused and "beaten"....learn nothing and repeat the same cycle......?<P>I know that I lost so much of myself through this....I really did BC!!! I used to be a happy-go-lucky vibrant woman who loved everyone and felt the same from others. I trusted without reservation, especially my H....All of a sudden, I felt sad, alone, devastated to the point of paralysis. I never laughed, I could care less about people and "normal" chit-chat or interaction.<BR>It was like this whole affair/H/OW/marriage situation took over every cell of my body!!!!<P>Then I found MB.......Then I found out that I was not alone. THen I found out that what I felt and needed was not unique and there were things to do to finally start doing something that might work!!!!<P>Do you know that it was the people here who got me laughing again.....caring again.....talking again?<P>They helped me get the big old rock off my soul......<P>I know (and knew throughout the nightmare) that I did not ALLOW anything about this.....All I (AND YOU) have experienced is a loved one going through some very difficult times. WE can't control what they think or feel, but we can effect it positively or negatively.<P>First, we have to pick up ourselves and dust ourselves off!!!! That is all you need to find the confident "you" that is still inside yourself.....she's not lost!!! She is not beaten!! She is not a friggin' doormat!!!! She is just in need of a ray of light to show her how to come out of the dark place she is in.<P>Do you want to tell us more about YOU?<P>Please do, for that is where your strength is.....<P>What other feelings do you have? What do you think has suffered of your personality or emotions? Do you feel that some of what I "lost" for awhile are some of the same as yours?<P>It will be good again BC.....it doesn't depend on H or OW or anyone. Just gotta get that big ole' rock off of you!!!!<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba

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Wonderful replies Sheba!<P>BC...listen to Sheba. She has great advice and wisdom here. BC, I don't know if you realize it yet, but YOU HAVE grown. I read it in your Posts and your attitude seems stronger and stronger everyday.<P>I don't have much to add because Sheba said it all!<P>You stay strong BC. We are here for you and praying for you too!

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bc,<P> YOU are want we want to read about. I guess we have not expressed it as well as Sheba has. Thank you Sheba. (bc, I really liked her comment about 'you are not a friggin' doormat!) You do need to follow the light we are trying to show you. Your life will become better and better the more you focus on YOURSELF.<P> This is why we wanted you to go to Alaon. And WE see YOU getting stronger and stronger by going. WE are proud of you for going. Focus on yourself, re-read Sheba's post and the one she suggested. You will find your life much more interesting if you focus your energy on yourself, and forget whatever those other 2 people are doing. Who cares? WE care about YOU. If you decide to look at Plan B, read the info on this web site. Don't come here straight away, stop and read some of Dr. H's colums. Go back to the main page and re-read the basic concepts. Prayers for you bc, and keep up with Alaon! Victoria

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I don't know how to proceed. My H is adament that he wants the divorce. He may have been dragging his feet because of what he stands to lose (the house, his toys etc) but he continues to see the OW and come and go at our house. <P>I told him it might be better if he packed his bags and left but even after in the heat of the moment saying he would he is still there. I have told him I want the marriage to work and have tried to pay him the attention he thought I never did but he has a brick wall between us. The things I enjoy doing unfortunately are the things that he does and so does the OW, racing mainly. If I go I have to see her there. Would this really deposit and love units if I was there? Then H usually goes out drinking afterwards and so does the OW and all of her family. If I go they ridicule me in public like I don't belong or have any right to be there with my H. I think this makes him mad at me.<P>Maybe I should just forget about going and let them be together. I just don't know what to do next. I want to wake up and have it all disappear. My H feels nothing for me and when he says he knows what he will lose it doesn't even seem to bother him. He is cold to it all. That makes me feel so horrible. A man I loved with all my heart and he is now so cold and deceitful.

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bc, here's a quote for you from the daily devotions at eprayer.com:<P><B>"Lord, please free me from yesterday's fears and worries so that I can make the very best of today."</B><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I don't know how to proceed. My H is adamant that he wants the divorce<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>About what to do, please read 1 Corinthians 7: verses 10 - 17. <B>God's Word has the answers you are searching for.</B><BR>Give it to Him to solve. Detach yourself from your husband. You are a wonderful person bc, you don't have to withstand the garbage this man is throwing at you. Let go.<P>You are in my prayers bc. <P>Love,<BR>AW<BR>

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BC, I asked you this question a few months ago and I will ask it again. Why are you enabling him to treat you like this? Wasn't it you that was even told by Steve Harley that it is time for Plan B? (if it wasn't you then I apologize). I know people keep trying with Plan A, but this has gotten past the ridiculous phase. If you notice everyone of your post is the same thing. <BR>1. H went out drinking, with OW. <BR>2. H didn't give me money for bills.<BR>3. H didn't fill out legal papers again.<BR>I and most of us here can tell you what you are about to say before you finish typing. I am not saying to make you feel like you shouldn't come here to vent and for support, but after you have seen the same thing for over a year (or close to it), your counselor has said no contact, you still are at the same place you were months ago, and still are suprised when he does the same things over and over again. I commend you for going to AA for your H, but are you going because you need help to understand why H is doing what he does, or are you going in attempt to prolong the obvious. The obvious being that H will not change a thing since he has no control being an alcoholic, YOU HAVE TO DO THE CHANGES TO YOURSELF. Not for him, but for your own sanity. You said before that it is his house, you can't make him leave, then you leave. You said that bills are piling up, and you won't pay the ones that he is responsible for, yeah that's a start, but you are still there taking the same abusive behavior. I know everyone has their breaking point when they really know ENOUGH IS ENOUGH and to me you say you are tired and want this to end, but for ME, (and in no way am I speaking for others) it seems that you surround your entire life about H alcoholism, and his OW. When does BC do something that is a change to better HER LIFE, not understand her H, but YOUR LIFE?

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It is also my house with my name on the mortgage therefore I will not jepordize my credit by leaving the house. If it were only his I would. I guess I will stop posting seeing everyone seems to be fed up with what I keep saying. I thought I could vent but I guess I am just too weak and that is what people feel about me. My family too. So I will go and not come back.

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BC you know that you leaving was not my intention. And as I said before I could never speak for everyone. If you want me to shut up and mind my business then say so and I will back off, but don't give up on those who have been their for you in the MB forum. You said that everyone feels you are weak. What do you feel about how you are handling things? Do you feel that you are weak? I would never call another betrayed weak for wanting their marriage. I do feel that after a certain amount of time that if the changes you have made for yourself and in the marriage are not working then it is time to try something else. They say insanity is doing the same things over and over again, expecting to get different results. It just doesn't work like that. Awhile ago, you said that you legally could not change the locks on the doors because his name is on the mortgage. Is their a way for you to talk to a lawyer to find out what options you have about taking your name off the mortgage and your credit will stay in good standing? I just see you going in circles and this is not going anywhere good. No you shouldn't stop venting here but you did come here for advice like we all do, don't be upset or disappointed because you don't like what you read, hell that means none of us would be here. I know people have told me about my immature ways towards my H and at first I was PO'd, but then when I took the blinders off, I could see where they were going with it. No one is here to put the other down but you are going to get different people with different ways of saying/suggesting things and that's what keeps us all coming back for more. The different perspective. I do apologize if I hurt you with my last post.

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bc,<P>Honey we are not fed up with you ! We don't like the pain you are in, we don't like the pain any of us are in. Please don't leave.<P>We can't tell you what to do, we can listen to what you have to say and tell you what we think. But in the end the decision is yours. We can and I believe will support you in what ever you decide to do.<P>bc, believe me if we could make all of this pain go away and make your marriage strong and healthy we would do it in a heart beat if not faster.<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>Hepatitis C, educate yourself ! <A HREF="http://hepatitis-central.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://hepatitis-central.com/</A>

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<BR>bc,<P>I've never replied to you before but I've tried to 3 times already today and got interrupted every time. We'll see what happens this time.<P>My W isn't quite as "behaviorally challenged" as your husband is, so maybe none of what I say will be of help, but I hope you find some encouragement - if not here, then somewhere.<P>The thing I did that helped me so much was to detach. I detached by taking a good hard look at my W and accepting the fact that she has turned into someone that I don't want to spend the rest of my life with. I'm giving her every reason and every opportunity to turn back into a loving wife, but if she decides that's not what she wants, I'm fully prepared to charge headlong into a happy life without her. You need to do the same, in my opinion. Live a life you enjoy. Invite him to join you, but realize that he may decide not to. Do what you can to be attractive to him, but don't do anything you don't want to keep doing for the rest of your life. Hold your head up, bc. You're a valuable person and nothing your H can do will diminish that worth, it only diminishes him.<P>He has his own demons to deal with. A lot of men, myself included, deal with their feelings of inferiority by making what I call "pre-emptive strikes". They do things like belittle people around them to make themselves feel superior. You need to stand up for yourself so that you are no longer a target for his abuse.<P>Plan A is the way to do this. Treat yourself right. Do things that make you happy. Plan A is 95% about you, and 5% about him. You can't control him, you can only control you. By controlling you, you can make yourself an attractive alternative. If he decides to stay, great. If not, you'll be better able to be happy and content and know you did all you could do if you've got an effective Plan A going.<P>Here's an example that sort of expresses what I'm trying to get across:<P>My W has complained about me to her family to the point where they pretty much hate me. In order to avoid being around people that hate me, about a year ago I decided that I'd stop participating in anything involving my wife's family. W didn't like it one little bit, and she let me know she didn't like it. I saw no other alternative at the time, until last weekend.<P>Last weekend was a pretty major event in my W's life. She arranged a celebration party with her family - brothers, sister, and parents with all the associated neices and nephews. I decided that I would bury the hatchet and go along. She was horrified. When I got there she was so angry you could almost see the steam coming off the top of her head. I was gracious and smiling. I played cards and games and was as happy as a person could be. Later, W's father told me that he had been encouraging W to keep trying to make our marriage work. I discovered, much to my surprise, that they all realize how much I'm doing to keep the marriage alive and how much W is doing to destroy it.<P>My point? Oh yes, my point. My point is that my smiling face, next to W's angry one, made a huge impression on everybody, including my W. Yes, it ticked her off. But there's no way that she could criticize what I had done. I was perfect, at least for a day. How did I do it? Plan A & detachment. <P>Maybe, just maybe, you could do this with your racing interests. Go to the races. Be happy. Enjoy yourself. Let him see what he's giving up. Be happy with yourself, bc.<P>You can do this, bc. If I can do this, anybody can and I really mean that. A year ago I was a useless blob of sub-human jelly. I got better. You can too.<P>Slightly Sane<BR>

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bc,<P>Please read my post on NoTrust's thread to you!<P>(((((HUGS)))))<BR>Mitzi


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