I haven't been here for almost 2 monthes.My wife came back about 2 monthes ago and at that time she said she would be ready to work on the marriage. But after moving in she said she wasn't sure if this was right and she needed sometime to think about things. Well things go on as normal as posible, I plan a this whole time(flowers,notes, laundry, dedicated songs,housework, better listener) and she still wasn't ready to do anything. I found out she was still talking to the guy and seeing him once and awhile. <BR>So i sat down with her calmly and asked her what she thought we were going to do. She said that she thinks that our problems are too much to fix and that she has been unfair and a coward. I asked her what he gives her that i don't and she said that she really doesn't know. So how can i fill a need if she doesn't even know what it is? She said she liked that he wasn't afraid of anything. She also said she came back because she thought i was going to take the kids from her. She said that i was the best dad she has ever seen and she would probably lose in court. i said i don't want to put you or the children through that. My problem is I love all three of you too much for any of that.So i said you want this to be over, and she said does it have to be that or nothing, so i said do you want a seperation and relunctantly she said yes. I told her that I would never take the kids away from her but i didn't agree with the arrangements she wanted which is an every other week option. i think it is too much for a 2 and a 4 year old to handle. I said since I don't want you to think i took your kids away from you and I want the best for my kids. I will move out and get the kids on the weekends and some evenings to go out but they would be back to sleep in there own beds. <BR>I guess this kind of blew her out of the water. She told me last night she talked to OM about it to get a males perspective and he said i probably did it to keep the kids from going through a fight. I said that is part of it but the other part is i don't want to put you through it and i want the best for them. She also said she just couldn't believe i was going to just give them up and i said i don't want to but them having one stable home is better than going back and forth to two. Which one would they call home? I also said that in my mind this is a temporary thing but i know that there is a possibility that it isn't.Later that evening i asked her if she thought the kids would think i gave them up since that is how she felt when she was a kid and her dad left. She said you won't just abandon them and not see them. She said my every other week offer is still out there and i said that is not what is best for the kids.<P>Today everytime i think about moving out, i start crying. I am going to miss so much of my childrens lives if we don't get back together.I love them all so much. But how am i going to move out or should i? I think i am going to ask her one more time if she really thinks that we really have no shot to work things out. W<P>What do all of you think? Both sides would be appreciated.

Is there anyway you could move to another room in the house? That could be a workable compromise.<P>No fear. For women, confidence is a big turn on. Or rather a lack of confidence is a big turn off. A little assertivness will probably do you both good. From what little I know, when you are making the decisions, she seems to respond to you. Tell her what you have decided to do (moving to the garage?); tell her why you came to this conclusion (the childern should not suffer because of OUR problems; I want to be here when you need me but I also want to give you the space you are searching for) and then ask her if she objects (do you think this is a good compromise?).

Dhorne:<P>What your W is needing is space? Space to decide what she wants. She apparently hasn't given up the OM and until she is ready to do that little can be done on your relationship. You have been remarkably thoughful and considerate in dealing with the children and their needs. I deal with divorces everyday and I know how badly the parties use their kids as pawns. Your W probably came back too soon, before she was really ready to commit to the relationship again. <P>I know moving out will be hard and it might not be necessary if you just back off a little. Let her work things out and then see, but continue to Plan A. No one who is such a good father can't be too far from being a good husband too. Sometimes the spouses don't want to leave, they just want to have time to think--and that's hard if everything and everyone is pressing them for resolution.<P>Hang in there.<P>Buffy<P>

Hi Dhome -<P>I, personally, have a big problem with the steady promarriage parent moving out and the confused "out of marriage" minded person staying in the family home. I just don't see how it is best for the kids to live with a confused parent. Not confused to the point of splitting up the family and then it looking to the kids that you would be the one abandoning them and not liking to be home with them.<P>Do you know what I mean? <P>There is also the values demonstrated. Although your kids are young - what does this show them? You and your wife are teaching by example that it is ok for mommy to make daddy leave cuz she has a boyfriend? Where is the lesson of family sticks together through hard times? What if OM comes over now? Where will that fit in?<P>I know that you want the children to be as stable as possible and I completely agree that they should not be taken from the security of their "home". They also should not be carted back and forth like luggage. BUT, I believe that you should be the primary caregiver until your wife has her head more together.<P>It is your wife who is contemplating "out" of the marriage and family - not you!!! It is your wife who needs time and space to figure things out - not you!!! It is your wife who wants "something" or "someone" that is outside of the home and family and that someone should remain outside of it. Let her be part of the "outside" influence, not the "outside" influence be allowed to be a part of your home and family unit.<P>Why should you have to leave who, what and where you want when you still want it? That doesn't make sense!!!! <P>I think that you are a very good person to want to do this for your wife. I don't think that it is the solution you need though. Your wife must see that what she is doing will have major consequences and the best way for that reality to sink in is for her to feel some of them. <P>I am not saying that she should go as a punishment or anything. Not at all!! She is in a lot of confusion and pain of her own kind right now. I am merely saying that if she chooses to leave the family then she is the one who should do that and you shouldn't be the one thrown out of it.<P>I also have concerns about the future. What if she decides to divorce and be with OM? If you have read around here - you know that most of those don't work out. How will the children be affected yet again...or still? By you leaving the home, it would hurt your chances of custody....do you want that? Would you want to raise your children?<P>I would reapproach your wife and share the thoughts of the values, etc. I would reiterate that she needs as little distractions as possible to fully get her mind together. I might also add to it that as long as she is in contact with OM - she will not be able to make a truly detached and soul-searched decision because of the influence.<P>I hope some of what I have rambled about can help....I truly feel so bad for you and your wife and especially the kids.<P>Big Hugs,<P>Sheba

Thanks for your replys, it does seem like when i put my foot down is when she responds to me the most. If i tell her i am going to give her the time you think she wants, how do i deal with her seeing OM. It just seems like she doesn't want to make a decision. I agree with a lot of what everyone said, and right this minute i don't think i am going anywhere, i just can't leave my kids but if she decides to leave what do i do about the kids. She wants an every other week arangement and i don't think that will work. But i also don't want to fight with her. i am so damn confused?????? I think i am just going to back off from her for awhile and go to counseling on Monday and see what she says. anymore opinions welcomed???<BR>

dhorne,<P>Sheba is once again <B>so right</B>...<P>In Plan A you <B>don't move out</B>...<BR>...if she want's to move... OK...<BR>...but YOU DON'T MOVE OUT!!!! Please.<P>The wayward will see no consequences to her actions if you move out.<P>The kids will be losing the most stable parent they have.<P>You <B>will</B> lose the house and much more if this leads to divorce.<P>Courts will invariably favor the mother in almost all rulings... custody (ruling for her to have both temp and permanent)... child support (guaranteed if you move out)... bigger alimony.<P>The father is supposed to be the head of the family... what will that say to your kids (if not now) then in the future?<P>Is it hard to raise kids as a single dad...<BR>(from my personal experience) damn hard. But very rewarding... and the closeness you develop with your kids is priceless!<P>There is so much to lose (not just for you!) by moving out to "<I>give her the space she needs</I>".<P>Your W really can't "think that we really have no shot to work things out"...<BR>...remember she is in a fog!<BR>...she's still getting through this addiction!<BR>...(wouldn't leave your kids with an alcoholic mom would you?)<P>Think things through!<P>Moving out (you that is) may be a forced issue if you had to go to Plan B...<BR>...but you're not there yet... are you?<P>Prayers my friend... <P>Lots of prayers.<P> <P>Jim<P>PS.. Sheba... how come we are thinking so much alike? This is so wierd... but nice.

Sheba and NSR have hit it! <P>You can't make this easy and without consequences for your W. It will take her so long to figure out what she is doing if you do that. She can just go along with her happy little life, in your house, with your kids, bringing her lover into your house while you become the outsider. That doesn't seem very fair to you does it?<P>I vote for moving into another bedroom. If she wants space, give her that space. In my experience, when there is an OP involved, separate residences increases the distance between the spouses because it frees the betrayer to betray without fear of explanations and being caught. It gives the OP a way of saying, "See, they really don't care, do they? I am the one you need."<P>I can see that you want to be loving and fair, but you can't be a doormat. Don't give up on what is fair to yourself and your kids so that she can be conflict free. The situation is full of conflict and she should bear her share or what is she learning?

Thanks again everybody, I see your points and i agree with them all. About Plan a and b, i have been in a for almost 8 monthes, did a small plan b when she moved in with him, that lasted three days and she was ready to move back cause of the kids. Big mistake i should have continued with plan b until she was ready to work on the marriage unconditionally but i didn't. Now about moving into another room or something, how will that make much of a difference in our relationship, i just don't see how this would help her, but i am willing to do that more than i am willing to move out. Financially we really can't afford to seperate we are barely making it now, i am going to get a second job, which will give her more time for herself, i hope this is the solution cause if she moves out i don't know how we will figure out the arrangements with the kids but you all are right i am not moving out, unless i need to start plan b. I think i am really close to it but plan b is suppose to help me and moving out will hurt me more than staying and puting up with whatever she is doing.<BR>Derek

Derek...<P>I know that <B>K</B> will suggest you contact the Harley's for counseling...<BR>...and if the money isn't there... ughhhh!<BR>...but consider asking him for advice.<BR>...he too moved out as part of a Plan B!<P>Recheck out my <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20000110-1-011323.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A - 101</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20000110-1-011046.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B - 101</A>.<P>"Now about moving into another room or something, how will that make much of a difference in our relationship, i just don't see how this would help her"...<BR>...it won't help her as much as help you...<BR>...since you'll be able to do a better Plan A!<P>"i am going to get a second job"...<BR>...take some of that new money... and do a little bit of lavishing on her... (something that will <B>not</B> benefit the OM directly/indirectly). "date"-like activities as best you can (I know this will be tough)<P>I'm praying for you Derek!<P> <P>Jim

"She said she liked that he wasn't afraid of anything." <P>She is telling you that she respects strength not weakness. Unfortunately, your post does not portray you as being very strong. You are ready to move out and give the children to her and the OM. She is the one who committed adultery and you are ready to reward her by giving her the home and the children. She came back to you because she was afraid that you would take her children. Now that you have calmed her fears about that she now has the license to continue with her affair with the OM who she percieves as strong. Do you think that by being so noble and sacrificing that she is going to think that you are strong. I do not think so.History so far has shown that the meek do not inherit the earth.

DO NOT MOVE OUT OF THE HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<P>I second everything the other posters said.<P>Let her move. I don't know what state you are in, but I got custody of the kids in California. I was able to show that I was the more stable parent.<P>If you need some tips, feel free to email me: bmstern@ucla.edu.<P>Also, you may want to check out <A HREF="http://www.deltabravo.net/custody." TARGET=_blank>www.deltabravo.net/custody.</A> Great info here.<P>Take care of those babies. You are the one that is looking out for their best interest now.