Life is not all rosey here. I had been prepared for her to talk to H last night and she did. Told him that she was going to visit me today which she did. My loveable H the big conflict avoider doesn't want to hurt anyone. Tells us both what we want to hear but not the whole story doesn't lie but not the whole truth. <P>He is leaving her with impressions that I am pushing him back into the relationship. The only pushing I will admit to was that I pushed him into her arms in the first place. BUt I am not pushing now.<P>I honestly believe that he want to be with me that he want to get away from her but doesn't know how. I am part of the problem I know what I have done in the past. He knows that I have changed but he does have a love for her and I don't know if I can deal with that. He does tell me that things are different from last year. Last year he would always initiate the meetings with her. Now she is the one hunting him down to talk to him and be with him. <P>I am so tired I need to have more strength and I don't know if I have enough anymore. We have done a lot of talking and foronce he has done most of the talking. This is very good. BUt I don't know where to go from here. <P>It is so scarey he has lost his faith and I don't know where to help him. We are no where near recovery we are together and that is all we having going right now, no that isn't right he wants to be with me and he told her he wasn't leaving me, but he can't explain why. Help!<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

SDS, You have the hardest part of the battle won...he is with you and won't leave you...he loves you..she is just some feeling.. nothing real....<P>I'm giving you advice that I would have a hard time following it....but forget about her. Don't think of his feelings for her...focus on the fact that he is WITH you...I'd give anything for that....I really miss my H. He moved out (I actually ushered him) in Feb. He doesn't live with her..she just moved out and has her own apt., but now they have all the freedom they want. <P>My H seems to think he can pull this off without anyone thinking he left me for her.<P>Anyway, I better get off this post, because I am having a bad weekend and do not want to start getting negative...I want you to be positive..........

{{{{{{{{{di}}}}}}}},<P>tootrusting is right...<BR>"You have the hardest part of the battle won"...<BR>...but it is not over.<P>In some ways you always knew... when he comes back the work becomes so much harder!<P>The withdrawal period... is still going to be tough...<P>You'll be battling the "trust issue" for a real long time...<P>You're Plan A developed skills will be put to the test...<P>Your patience on how long you can wait for setting up a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A> will be stretched...<P>But you know something...<BR>...you'll have <B>us</B> around! <P>The sun may go down on you.. early some days...<BR>...we'll be here for you!<P> <P>Jim

Diana,<P>Ok I'll give you the MB principles as understand them....<P>Hold on tight for the withdrawls...<P>Keep depositing in his <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3200_love.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Bank</A>...<P>Committ <B>ZERO</B> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>...<P>Like Jim says establish <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>The Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A>...<P>Try to do your part of the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Four Rules for a Successful Marriage</A>... <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Marital recovery cannot begin until withdrawal has ended. (page 68 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Now that you have your H talking to you, learn the art of negotiating...<P>I believe that if you plan-a enough he will want to end all contact with her...<P>Here is a long list of stuff from these principles we have all come to know...<P>Four rules to guide marital recovery<BR><OL TYPE=1> <BR><LI> <B>The Rule of Protection:</B> Avoid being the cause of your spouse's unhappiness.<BR><LI> <B>The Rule of Care:</B> Meet your spouse's most important <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>.<BR><LI> <B>The Rule of Time:</B> Take time to give your spouse undivided attention.<BR><LI> <B>The Rule of Honesty:</B> Be totally open and honest with your spouse.<BR></OL> <BR>(7) - The Rule of Protection<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>The Rule of Protection:</B> Avoid being the cause of your spouse's unhappiness. (page 90 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Love busters: the most obvious way to destroy love<BR>Angry outbursts<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>When anger wins, love loses. (page 92 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Disrespectful judgments<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>A disrespectful judgment occurs whenever someone tries to impose a system of values and beliefs on someone else. (page 93 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Selfish demands<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>When one spouse wins and the other loses, the marriage loses. (page 96 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thoughtless decisions: a less obvious way to destroy love<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>The Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A>... Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse. (page 97 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thoughtfulness: the objective of marital negotiation<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If a couple are committed to avoid any decision until they come to a mutually enthusiastic agreement, eventually they learn how to negotiate. (page 98 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>How to negotiate with the policy of joint agreement<BR><OL TYPE=1> <BR><LI> Set ground rules to make negotiation pleasant and safe.<BR><LI> Identify the problem from the perspective of both you and your spouse.<BR><LI> Brainstorm solutions with abandon.<BR><LI> Choose a solution that is appealing to both of you.<BR></OL> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If your negotiation becomes unpleasant or unsafe to either of you, break it off and choose another time to discuss the issue. (page 100 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If you can begin with an understanding that a solution cannot be chosen until you have enthusiastic agreement, you will be amazed at how quickly you can find agreement. (page 103 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It is recommended to couples that they learn to say something like, I'm not very enthusiastic about this situation, will you negotiate with me? (page 104 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The policy of joint agreement offers complete protection<BR>The policy of joint agreement creates a compatible lifestyle<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>When a couple create a lifestyle that they each enjoy and appreciate, they build compatibility into their marriage. (page 106 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You can be the greatest cause of your spouse's unhappiness<BR>(8) - The Rule of Care<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>The Rule of Care:</B> Meet your spouse's most important <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>. (page 110 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Learing to meet each other's emotioanl needs in marriage is far less complicated than going throughthe agonizing ritual of affairs and divorce. (page 111 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><OL TYPE=1> <BR><LI> The Rule of Care - step 1: Identify the most important emotional needs<BR><LI> The Rule of Care - step 2: Become an expert at meeting the most important emotional needs<BR></OL><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You must ask if you want to know where to put your greatest effort. (page 113 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Couples who focus their attention on each other's top five emotional needs have a sensational marriage. (page 115 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>We can't meet our most important emotional needs ourselves - other must meet them for us. (page 117 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>A good marriage becomes almost effortless when spouses develop habits that meet each other's needs. (page 118 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>A positive suggestion is much more encouraging than critisim. (page 119 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Meet each other's needs in ways that are mutually enjoyable<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Never expect your spouse to suffer or sacrafice so that your need can be met. (page 120 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You can be the cause of your spouse's greatest happiness<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You must be each other's greatest source of happiness if you want to have a successful marriage. (page 121 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Feedback from your spouse as to how you are doing at meeting his or her emotional needs is absolutely essential in your becoming an expert. (page 122 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>(9) - The Rule of Time<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>The Rule of Time:</B> Take time to give your spouse undivided attention. (page 127 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The right way to meet all important emotional needs is to schedule time to meet them all. (page 130 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Spouses need to be emotionally connected on almost a daily basis to sustain their love for each other. (page 131 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Scheduling time for undivided attention<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>A couple's love for each other cannot be created or sustained without time for undivided attention. (page 133 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It is recommended that couples schedule the same hours week after week to be alone with your spouse. (page 133 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Recreational companionship<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Couples often make the fatal mistakes of going their separate ways when an activity becomes boring to one of the spouses. (page 135 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>(10) - The Rule of Honesty<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>The Rule of Honesty:</B> Be totally open and honest with your spouse. (page 139 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Emotional Honesty<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Emotional Honesty:</B> Reveal your emotional reactions - both positive and negative - to the events of your life, particularly to your spouse's behavior. (page 140 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Historical Honesty<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Historical Honesty:</B> Reveal information about your personal history, particularly events that demonstrate personal weakness or failure. (page 142 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Current Honesty<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Current Honesty:</B> Reveal information about the events of your day. Provide your spouse with a calendar of your activities, with special emphasis on those that may affect your spouse. (page 143 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Future Honesty<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Future Honesty:</B> Reveal your thoughts and plans regarding future activities and objectives. (page 145 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Complete Honesty<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Complete Honesty:</B> Do not leave your spouse with a false impression about your thoughts, feelings, habits, likes, dislikes, personal history, daily activities, or plans for the future. Do not deliberately keep personal information from your spouse. (page 146 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Creating an environment for honesty<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You encourage homesty when you value honesty. (page 148 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Don't wrap your honesty in love busters<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If you are to be honest with your spouse, you must be willing to reveal your feelings without Love Busters. (page 150 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Honesty means being persistent<BR>(11) - Managing resentment and restoring trust<BR>Living with the memory of an affair<BR>The more there is to resent, the more difficult resentment is to overcome<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>An emotional reaction to a painful event fades over time, as long as the painful event is not repeated. (page 154 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Focusing on the present and future can help diminsh resentment<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>When marriages recover completely, using the four rules, resentment almost always fades away. (page 157 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Avoid using resentment as a love buster<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Resentment is a feeling, and Love Busters are tempting reactions to that feeling (page 157 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Restoring trust<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Trust is the belief that our spouses will be honest with us and will protect our feelings. (page 158 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Someone unwilling to follow the Rule of Protection is unwilling to protect our feelings. (page 160 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>(12) - Renewing marital commitment<BR>Marital recovery agreement<BR>A final warning: protect your love bank from the deposits of others<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Make it easy for your spouse, and make it relatively difficult for others to deposit love units. (page 170 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If you ever find yourself infatuated with someone other than your spouse, don't walk away, RUN! (page 171 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>To maintain a strong marital relationship, the four rules must be continually followed. (page 172 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>I'll post more if I think of it...<P>Remember 50 miles into the woods...<BR>50 miles out...<P>Easy does it...<P>And yes we love you very much <P>You'll do great <P>Bill<BR><P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

I haven't been able to post all weekend. I am not sure how he feels about me coming here. I do think he is okay with it but I don't think he realizes what I write about and that is where the problem would be. <P>Thank you so much for responding and reminding me of the things I should remember but when it is so close to home you have a tendency to forget.<P>I really didn't have a chance to tell you the whole story as I was afraid he would come in while I was writing. I am sure he knows how I feel about OW but I do know that I can't say one thing against her. However I know she is about me. One for me!<P>Thurs. morning 1 AM after he got off work she got into his car. Kissed him and knowing him I am sure he kissed back and probably held her too. I don't know exactually what he tells her but I assume he tells her that he want to be with me and that he is not leaving me. But...... he is agreeing with anything she says as far as me pushing him back to our marriage and who knows what else. He is leaving her with the idea that he still cares for her and I am sure he does but doesn't want to be with her.<BR>Anyway she follows him home he is late and I am worried not about her but the fact that he drives home down a dark stretch of road and I know that he is low on gas. Anyway when I hear him I go out she peels out. HE comes in tells me what has happened the basics not the whole truth but not lies either. HE leaves out what he is afraid will hurt me. Like the kiss till I ask him what that smell is on his clothes. Anyway he hands me the note she has given him and the doorbell rings you guessed it. She tells me that he is lying to me He never talked to her about leaving her (I know I griped at him about that I told him he was hurting her worse by leading her on.) hey had sex that Sat. He didn't tell me but I assumed good grief he was trying to act as if everything is normal and well I would have thought something was wrong if he hadn't. I told her I knew. He told her he wasn't leaving me! I ask her to leave and as she wals away she tells him it is over (sure right) but I tell that is right it is over.<P>Okay Now it is Sat morning H comes in from work late tell me she reads him a note this time because she is afraid that he won't read it. He tells me that she told him that she is coming to see me this weekend. Great joy!!!!!<BR>We don't even get to bed till 5 AM we deliever papers. We sleep in and when we wake up we have our time together(We have been having a lot lately) Any way I know it is early afternoon but we aren't even out of bed yet the doorbell rings. We lie there hoping but it rings again so we throw on clothes and guess who, not the avon lady.<P>I hope the door but I won't let her in. I have more control keeping her on the porch. H is right behind me. She ask him if he has told me what they talked about. He says what she said don't give me that you know. Of course my heart is beating out of my breast at this momemnt but I am trying to stay calm. He tells her that he is not leaving me. She says then everything you have said is a lie, he said I have never lied to you. I then add my two cents and said he doesn't lie he just doesn't tell the whole truth! She then tells me that he told her that I pushed him into this decision. Now that hurts but I didn't even respond. I again said he doesn't tell the whole truth. I told her to leave. And I close the door on her.<P>I am devasted because I also know he hasn't told me the whole truth. We do have spend a lot of time talking and I start telling him what my life was like without him. Of course I have a total breakdown. We spend the rest of the afternoon with me in tears and h consoling me. I am the needy one now. <P>I again tell him that I understand what he is doing he is remembering what I looked liked when he came to get his things and he wants to avoid seeing her that away. I told him he is making it worse, he is leading her on like he did me. That a clean break with the truth is better. I would have been a lot better off had he left me when I first found out. That leading me on was something I would wish on worse enemy namely her and that if he really cared he would make a clean break.<P>I have been a good girl and don;t think I have done any LBing. I did tell him that the OW saying that he told her that I pushed him into leaving her hurt very much and I wished he had told me that he felt that way. He said yes he had said it but he meant that I pushed him to do it that weekend. BUt that she was only trying to hurt me. She is doing LBing big time. <P>I learned my lesson from last summer but she sure didn't take notes at all thank goodness.<P>I even let him talk about her and some of the things they did. I let him talk about her kids.<P>But I am still scared I know she will confront him again tonight and he know it to. I did tell him that I would be nervous to night because she would try to talk to him again and that waas all that I said and I dropped it. The horrible thing is he left for work early, he had to collect on some paper bills but it brings back last year. He always left early to meet her before work. <P>Sorry I didn't mean for this to be so long, just had to get it all out. Thanks for being here and letting me vent. <P>------------------<BR>di<P>

She will. And he will weaken. <P>Hang tough - this too will pass. Remember, I've been there.<P>Keep believing - he'll gain strength from that. Keep Plan Aing. It will pay off.<P>Just bumps in the road, Hon, just bumps in the road. Keep the final destination in your head and don't let anything turn you off the path.<P>Luv ya,<P>Lori

((((SDS))))<P>Stay strong and keep a firm & strong Plan A. Your H needs to make a complete & blunt break from this OW or this is going to drag on. Unfortunately, it sounds like he doesn't realize it yet but I hope that he will soon.<P>I'm praying for you sweetie...