Hi gang,<BR>I was out last night with a few people from my support group. They can't understand why I would still want to take my h back. Everyone thinks I am nuts. I am beginning to think the same thing myself.<P>You see I had what I thought was the greatest marriage. I will never take that away from my h. I even told him so. He made me feel so loved, he seemed proud to be my h, he was my best friend. All of this for 17 years until OW entered his life.<P>Fast forward to today and he is a totally different man. Now, many will say to me that he was this man all along but I just never saw it. Some believe that people are capable of suppressing certain behaviors but that they always exist. My psychologist even thinks that OW has bought out something in him that must have been there all his life. Perhaps a sexual addiction. Other who knew my h all think he is crazy and is not himself. They claim they don't know who he is anymore. Including his best man at our wedding.... <P>So, My ? is, why do I still care so much for him? If I was an outsider looking in on everything my h did to me, I would also be the first one to say, stay the hell away from that man. I deserve so much better in a husband. My problem is that since my h is the only man I have ever been with ( since we were 15 years old) how do I even begin to trust another man. I honestly don't feel like I would meet a man who would treat me as nice as my h treated me or make me as happy as I was. ( before his affair that is)<P>Am I crazy for wanting him to wake up and come back to us. What kind of life would that be like. Is is worth losing all the respect of my family and friends that have spent so much time helping me thru this crisis. My father, whom I love more than anything even said to me once, honey if you ever take him back, you will lose me forever. Now, that hurt....He saw all the pain my h caused me. He was the one who held me when I cried so hard. I can't balame him for feeling that way about my h. He also used to love my h so much. They were golfing buddies. <P>I think there comes a time when your pride gets in the way and you start to ask yourself, how would I show my face around town if I take this man back. I mean this is the 3rd time he cheated with same Woman.He is so addicted to her he can't help it. What will everyone think of me??<P>I don't know why this has been on my mind lately. I think its because everyone keeps telling me watch out he's gonna wake up and want to come back to you. That woman he is with is no good. He has not shown any signs of wanting to come back. I personally feel even if he did, he won't be able to admit it because of everything he did. <P>DO you think I should still hold out hope for this marriage? I know most of us are in the same boat on this page so I would love your advise.

Missy9,<BR>You said:<BR>My father, whom I love more than anything even said to me once, honey if you ever take him back, you will lose me forever.<P>This doesn't sound like "loving father" words to me. Basically, "do what I want or I won't love you anymore".<P>Ask yourself, is this the kind of relationship you've re-created with your husband? Not that you shouldn't have certain expectations. Love between a man and a woman is, at some level, conditional. However, there are lots of day-to-day things that come along that should not be absolutely conditional. In my life with my ex, I often felt that failing to do the littlest thing he requested would result in his withdrawing love from me. How can someone live like that everyday? It made me feel like he didn't love ME, just what I could do for him. And if I let him down in any way, that he would abandon me. That is not love IMO. <P>What your father is doing is not loving. He might think that giving you an ultimatum like that is in your "best interest", but it is very disrespectful. I hope you can see that. Only you can decide what is best for you. Only you will have to live with whatever consequences come about as a result of your decisions. Forget about what the rest of the world tells you to do. You will find the answer that is best for you in your own time.

I would beg to differ a bit with The Student.<P>Everyone around us is affected by what happens to us because we behave differently in response. And their feelings are as important to them as ours are to us. It may not be the most Pop-Psych notion of loving thing for you father to day, but I believe it is very easy to realistically view it as other than manipulative or uncaring. “Unconditional love” is not a license to dump on others, nor is removing oneself from an intolerable situation unloving. Sometimes standing by the person in spite of their situation simply allows them to subject you to having to witness their misery or inappropriate behavior. There comes a point for family and friends to recognize that it is not helpful to sacrifice oneself on the Altar of Unconditional Love.<BR> <BR>I have been in the position where someone I loved deeply, cared about enormously, was engaged in such a destructive association with a romantic partner that I simply could not bear to see or hear about anymore of it. It had reached a point that all my support for her had simply become a source of strength that allowed her to endure this lousy relationship. She could/would not see the futility of it and was driving her friends away because they couldn't stand her pain, they could not ease her pain, and she was totally stuck, going round and round, not helping herself. I finally told her that, while maybe she could take more of it, I couldn't. If she chose to continue in the relationship, I would have no choice other than to protect myself from the insanity of it by removing myself from contact with her. It wasn't intended as a wake-up call or a threat. I simply felt that I owed it to to myself to get away, and I owed it her and our friendship to be honest and not to simply drift out of her life. She had been so engulfed by what she was going through that she had no idea of the impact it was having on others. Even then, she couldn't figure out what to do. I offered to get friends to go to her place and move her stuff into my apartment. She agreed. That was 20 years ago and she and I are still best friends. Sometimes a hard-core intervention of sorts is the most honest and loving thing you can do. <P>Missy9, some people will take a stand against reprehensible behavior. I wish I believed it mattered. Still, I know I am not alone in having no problem with saying, "I have no time for people who do what you do. No matter what anyone may think you have to offer, it is more than negated by what your deportment takes away." But, Missy9, I do this knowing that it is only to be right with myself. Unfortunately, it doesn't make a speck of difference in what happens. People are much more interested in getting what they can than they are in what is right, so the world turns a blind eye. Until there is a consensus that what someone has done is heinous or dishonourable enough to over-ride what can be acquired by supporting them, nobody cares …unless they are directly affected by the behavior. Consider the "There but for the grace of god go I.…" faction(is there nothing that these people will not forgive? nothing they truly know they wouldn't do?) and the "I just refuse to believe that about him…" faction and maybe especially the “He is so cool, I wish I could get away with that…” faction and, if you have enough influence/charisma/money/whatever you can get away with just about anything. And your detractors get treated like fools. I'd just rather be able to look in the mirror without shame than to provide support for other people's shameful behavior. (Just don’t ask me why I stay with my husband every damned time he cheats on me!!)<BR><p>[This message has been edited by dragantraces (edited May 22, 2000).]

Missy<P>Ugh. Some "support" group!<P>Once upon a time I was just like those hens in your support group shouting the loudest "Throw the bum out!" and muttering under my breath, "If my husband betrayed me, the last thing he's see of me is my dust!"<P>Yeah. Right.<P>Missy, I too had nearly twenty years of a marriage very similar in scope to yours. A husband who was so involved with me, so completely loving and faithful and proud of our marriage, all those years of happiness negated everything rotten he did to me two years ago.<P>My husband and your husband did not 'pretend' all those loving feelings and all that warmth, fidelity and love for us before the OW's came onto the scene. It was real. Our lives were not a lie. No one can act for that many years. They had a mid-life crisis. My husband's crisis was compounded with drinking again after 17 years of sobriety and his bipolar illness went from managable to off the charts.<P>There are so many variables to why something like this happens and can happen to people where no one would ever suspect they could be capable of infidelity.<P>Our spouses change so suddenly and so drastically that they are hard to recognize. <P>But for whatever reason, you stay BECAUSE of those 17 wonderful years, you stay because of your history, you stay because of your kids, and most of all, you stay because you are in love with your husband. You stay until you just can't go on anymore or until it is obvious it really is the end of the road.<P>You can't move on and forward until you know for sure deep in your heart that it's done. Until then, you have to stay the course.<P>Unfortunately, in this extremely disposable society, well-meaning friends and family (BTW, shame on DAD!) encourage betrayeds to leave. They don't realize that the only thing harder than staying the course and fighting for your marriage is divorce---until it happens to them.<P>When it happens to them, let's see if they cut and run or work like hell to preserve their marriage. It is so easy for outsiders to mouth off and tell you what they would do. Sounds good, but, when the chips are down, would they REALLY go?<P>I have the utmost respect for you and the others here on this forum,. They are among the strongest most caring people with the integrity, strength and dignity that humbles me. You must have self respect for the changes you have seen in yourself. It is awesome what we all are doing, Plan A, Plan B, somethings in between, posting here and caring, caring, caring. It's something to be proud of, not feel as though you're weak or risk losing the respect of others.<P>My husband and I are in recovery and daily I deal with his remorse and we heal more each day. Our problem is compounded with the OW having his child, yet, I stayed. I never thought I would, but, we have all this history, we share so much, we have all this love and commitment. And when he was gone, I missed him so much and what was once ours. I wanted it back. All of it. Simple as that.<P>Stay strong.<P>Catnip =^^=

Catnip,<P>I know this is off-topic, but I just want to acknowledge your strength and courage. Your posts are always full of love, compassion, and encouragement. I hope you get as much as you give.

Popeye:<P>As one of the top five people on this forum whose opinion means so much to me (I hang on your every word), I humbly thank you. What a nice thing to hear from someone who I respect so much.<P>Catnip =^^=

Missy, I dont' know if this will actually answer your question or not, but I feel exactly like you do, and this is how i explain it. <P>It's like Dr. H says, its an addiction right? Well you H is acting like a diff person right? Unexplained, irratonal behavior. Hurtfull, and calus disregard for the feelings of the people that love him, and care for him. This is alot like the behvior of a drug addict, right? Would you just walkaway and leave him if this were a drug problem? No, you would do what you can to help him and try to get him to understand that what he is doing is wrong, etc etc. <P>Yes, there will be a point when a family has to do "hard love" with a drug user, and the same my happen with this affair "paln b". But until YOU come to that point, then you have to continue to let that person know that you care about them and what they are doing to not just you and your family, but themselves. Only when YOU have grown too hurt and tired, can you decide to "give it up" and move on.<P>This is how I look at my situation, which sounds alot like yours, except its my wife who is hurting me. Lets keep in touch. If you want to read about whaat going on with me. Read my posts under general question called "BIG question" and "did i do the right thing" I hope to hear back from you!<p>[This message has been edited by vaforme (edited May 21, 2000).]

For a similar post (six months ago)...<BR>...with some good responses...<BR>...check out ===> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/010938.html" TARGET=_blank>Why Do Betrayed Care So Much</A>.<P> <P>Jim

Catnip...your Post/Reply was inspirational. Reading it reminded me of why I stayed in my own marriage....thank you...

Hi, Missy. I'm not going to get into whether or not your support system is giving you the "right" or "wrong" advice. This is all too subjective and I don't know enough of your story to go to one side or the other.<P> What I want to address is your subject question. Don't feel like the "Lone Stranger" here. I went through the same period of doubt that you are now. My profile isn't totally up to date, but check it out for my story(I'm too wordy to repeat it here). In about the February timeframe, I started asking myself the question "Why am I still holding on? Is it love or is it just a fear of being alone or a fear of failure?"<P> I did a lot of soul-searching for six weeks or so. I mentioned this to my therapist and she agreed it was an excellent question for which I needed to find the answer. W hasn't treated me <I>that</I> badly(compared to some here). It was just the fact that she couldn't decide whether or not to re-commit to the marriage that was driving me crazy. There is still an EA with OM, but she has and continues to demonstrate a deep love for me.<P> It has gotten to the point where I need some kind of resolution. I have no doubts about my love for W or her love or me. I realize that it's not any fear that keeps me here, it's a deep love. W is just in that lalaland where she can avoid responsibility and commitment. She is desparately avoiding putting herself in the situation of hurting either me or OM.<P> Anyway, that's enough of that. You need to take the time to look inward and find those answers. No one here can give them to you. When you understand exactly how you feel and why, then you will be ready to take whatever steps you find necessary. Without second-guessing. Without guilt or remorse.<P> Before all of this happened, I always believed and told others that if I was ever cheated on, that would be the end. Immediately. For good. Guess what? My reaction was 180 degrees different. My very first reaction was anger. Questioned why this was allowed to happen. That lasted about two hours. From that point on, all I wanted to do was to try to repair the marriage. I could have never predicted that I would have reacted this way. I have family and friends that think I'm crazy. My father in particular cannot understand why I didn't dump W immediately. You know what? They aren't living my life. I am!!! I make decisions because that's what <B>I</B> want, not because it's what someone else expects me to do.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I think there comes a time when your pride gets in the way and you start to ask yourself, how would I show my face around town if I take this man back.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If the above is true, this should tell you that you are hanging on for reasons other than love. When you truly love someone, it doesn't matter how the <B>town</B> feels about what you are doing. Whatever you do, do it for yourself.<P>Should you hold out hope? Only you can answer that question for yourself. You say H is not himself. Maybe it is worth the wait to see if he can shake this off. Maybe you need to move on. None of us can advise you, only support you in what you do.<P>Good luck, Missy. I'm holding out hope for you. Hope you find what <B>you</B> want.<P>Hugs....<P>--DeWayne--<P><p>[This message has been edited by Heartpain (edited May 21, 2000).]

Missy9,<P>I can so relate to your story. Except my H did not turn against me or "change" so to speak. I felt like a complete idiot for not seeing this happening and for thinking I had the "geatest" man on earth. I told him that I had him on a pedestal, that I thought our lives were "perfect". We do not fight or argue much. Sure-each of us had our moments where we wished the other would shush or drop a subject but we really had what I thought was a wonderful marriage. I never saw the "signs" every one talks about-although in my case it was somewhat easier for my H to get away with things as the OW was a supposed friend of mine.<P>I would like to suggest that you listen to your inner voice. AS much as your support group may think they are helping you I feel as though they are causing you some undue stress by forcing you to doubt what you may really be feeling.<P>It is up to you to decide what your futuer holds-not theirs. And as nice as they are will they be able to take the place of someone you may really love? <P>I know I am here doing what I am going to accuse the support group of doing but please let me tell you-in a divorce or in a situation such as yours people tend to say what they think you want to hear. Also-they say what they truly feel.........but only "if" it were to happen to them. We all say that we would never put up with a cheater and yet because we are who we are we find that to be easier said than done.<P>I love my H and I am not ashamed to admit it. IN the same beath I will say I ahte what he did to me more than anything-he was my heart and soul and he broke my trust in him. I have doubted my feelings for him, I have wondered if I really knew him. Yes I did-I just didn't realize that this type situation was going to be in my future or I would have better prepared.<P>Our spouses are bound to change to some extent. So many of them try to justify what they did so that they don't have to face it. I have seen so many that simply deny any accusation even when the proof is in their face. They aren't willing to own up to what they did because they now see the pain they inflicted on so many people.<P>If you want to work on your marriage you go right ahead. I think you owe it to yourself to do what will make you happy-I mean truly happy.<P>Best wishes for some kind of closure.