/well, I think that I finally figured out what my problem is this week.......I need to plan B. <P>Ya know. I am being emotionally abused. I still haven't heard any truths. He lies to me, he lies to the kids, he lies to his family........He has been complaining to me about how little sleep he is getting, which I believe. He has always had difficulty.<P>He came over here tonight and looked like a zombie. He fell asleep here for a short time...He fell asleep in the car when he was stopped to get ice cream with the kids. ( my D told me that). He doesn't tell his counselor. Thinks it's not important. His brother asks and he says "oh yeah" "im sleeping great". It's just like every other lie. He tells me in Jan "I want to explore a relationship with OP" "she's there for Me at work" (great excuse eh???) But tells his family "I never said I wanted a relationship, I just like working with her" "she's shown me a lot" Mind you he is her boss.<P>He says all the mean cruel stuff like you read on this board. Blames me for everything etc . But the story keeps changing. We're now down to 2 years instead of the whole marraige.<P>I plan A....I had to do a couple of tough love things that tended to make him crash alittle.<P>I got strong and started living my life and planning things for me and he started coming back.....wooing me......alittle....he decides he wants to talk.<P><BR>But when he talks he sounds like a moonie, with a mantra....He gets this weird voice that I don't recognize and says "we can't talk" He still denies OP. Won't talk about her (although I found an intimate note after their trip, wish I'd have saved it)<P>I tell him I will forgive him if he needs to tell me He loves her, he wants to marry her..etc.. He says..."I didn't say that" , then proceeds to tell me good things about our relationship as recently as the trip.<P>Then she moves out...is tired of my H's procrastination. He looks possessed again, starts acting like Robert DiNiro again.<P>He will alternately say cruel things and then apologize for treating me mean these past few months. Hopes I'll forgive him and understand even though he can't explain right now.<P>He wants to go to counseling.. We get there and he is hostile to the counselor...starts the mantra again.....I feel manipulated. I start to defend myself and then realize what is the point. He is just going about acting like nothing is happening when the whole world knows about it. <P>He tells the counselor everything I say bugs him and then asks me out to dinner after and we have a great time like we normally would. We discuss the counselor and the kids and work etc. <P>He hugs an kisses me.<P>Tonight he gets annoyed when I ask him about his steak . I tell him I remember the steak with brandy and cream he used to make me. He says I made it couple of times (sarcastically ) I say we have been together 13 years . You made it quite a few times. I loved it...(I said this all nicely)<P>He says " we had a few good times way back when" (this is an earlier stance.)<P>To everyone else he puts on a front. To me and the kids he acts like we are a burdon.<P>I feel abused. I need to plan B. I know I can't write as nice a letter as in the book...Any one remember some letters as examples.<P>Then again, I may be over. I know he is sick. But what do families of ETOH abusers, or drug abusers do.....they go to a safe house.... I feel like I just need to leave here. He can get the divorce...But even my children are sick of walking on eggshells to get his attention.<P>If he is so happy, why doens't he just get off the fence. I think I am going to push him hard. THis week is it!!!!!! School is over and I can leave for the summmer and I don't have to come back if I don't want to.

TT,<BR> Is it possible your H is on drugs?I wondered about that when my W had that"possessed"look.She'd just stare at me,and then say something cruel("Well,it looks like you lost your wife.").I'm afraid I couldn't do plan A for long,I don't handle verbal abuse very well.<BR> But your H seems to have a multi-personality complex right now.Blames you for everything,then later starts to woo you?That seems like it would be even harder to live with,than someone who has an affair and then just hates you.<BR> You may have to go to plan B just to save your sanity.At least that's what I had to do.It's hard at first,but as you lose contact it gets easier.<BR> You know,if we could crawl into our spouses head,and find out what makes them behave this way,instead of as a normal,rational human being,we'd be millionaires!Have a good(and trying)week.<BR> --Murph

tootrusting,<P>Yep... it could be <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A> time...<P>I always make the recommendation to talk with Steve or Jennifer Harley first... though...<P>As far as the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A> letters go...<BR>Check out these 2...<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000098.html" TARGET=_blank>Help with Plan B letter (from Hi Infidelity)</A> <BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000032.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan-B Letter; The final cut...(from WilliamJ)</A><BR>and look for the links in <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20000110-1-011046.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B - 101</A>.<P>There will be a lot of good help in critiquing your draft... very non-judgmental!<P> <P>Jim

Hi Tootrusting -<P>You can't do anything with a "plan" decision right this moment cuz you need to calm down!!!!<P>Your head is not in the right place...this OW moving out has refocused you onto her completely!!! <P>Think rationally here for a minute.<P>H is showing signs that he gets occassional glimpses of reality..your contact with him helps that happen.<P>Now you want to take that contact away?<P>That makes no sense!!!!!<P>The ONLY reason for Plan B is when you are REALLY losing love for him...when it no longer matters what he is doing or feeling or looking like.....you are far from that!!!!<P>Plan B is not just cuz you are losing patience!!!! Plan B is not to make a self-righteous statement!!!<P>You need to get passed the OW....you are allowing her to manipulate your own thoughts and goals!!!<P>Stop contact with HER HUSBAND!!! NOW that is a Plan B if ever I saw one!!!<P>BIG HUGS and take some deep breaths,<P>Sheba

Hi again TT.<P>Your post really struck a nerve. This may be kind of a ramble, since I am still trying to figure all of this out, but our situations are pretty similar, and it sounds like our Husbands are too.<P>When I Plan A...really Plan A, my husband kind of gets meaner too. I think he feels a great need to be punished. His guilt is a huge factor here, and the nicer I am to him the harder time he has coping with me.<P>So it's like walking on a tightrope. I can't be too forgiving...when I am it's like he throws the whole thing back in my face. I told him that OW was not a factor in my life, that I am not going to think/obsess over her, his reply was..."well, it still happened".<P>He continues to call this seperation we are having his "pennance" and his "punishment". (Those Catholic men! Sheesh!) <P>On the good news front...yesterday, after the first night in his apartment, he called me upset and asked me to remind him "Why the hell we are doing this?" Also, he asked me for a "date" this week and I readily agreed.<P>I wish your H could just come clean with everything TT, because it is so liberating for them. I have no idea if I'll be divorced in 6 months, but at least with the truth I feel I have somewhere...kind of a Point A to start.<P>Plan B...I don't know. Sheba made some good points as usual. You are still very very angry right now, so give it some time. How about writing the Plan B letter and then going into your back yard and setting fire to it? It always helps me to write to get my feelings out.<P>

Hi TT,<BR> What I see in your post is that it's not your contact with H that gives him glimpses of reality and causes him to sit up and take notice and get more than a little insecure,it's when you get strong and persue taking care of yourself and the kids that brings him around to your side. It's when he sees you making plans for a life that doesn't include him that he shows an effort to work on things.<P>I might get flamed a bit for this ,but sometimes these men need to see exactly what it is they will lose if they choose OW over wife and kids.They know what they will have with OW(they are doing that and it feels good)but they really never get a glimpse of what their lives will be like if they leave wife for OW, especially if they wander in and out of their family's lives at their own discretion while the affair is in full force. They truly have their cake and eat it too. If they choose OW and wife has no intention of plan Aing after a divorce,H never gets a vision of what true divorce looks like for him. TT has an opportunity here that a lot of us don't get. She is able to "vacation" for a good length of time (enabling her to refresh and refuel and save some love units in her H's bank,and give her kids the break they need from all this. )They need some fun in their lives. There comes a time when enough is enough. It sounds like TT has had enough and needs to give herself a break so that she doesn't completely lose all love and respect for the man.There is nothing wrong with time apart to regroup. It doesn't even have to be a formal plan B,just a summer vacation for her and the kids that gives her H an idea of what life might really be like without her.It doesn't have to be hostile or nasty.It's a separation of sorts wrapped up in a summer vacation for TT and her kids.<P>Hang in there honey! H knows what he wants. His actions show it over and over.H just can't get out of her grip just yet.You take care of you!Plan A is to make you strong too! Take care TT.

Thanks guys, I have talked with SHarley. Not since she moved out and put the pressure on him......but I'll tell you, I am not only losing my love, I am losing my respect.<P>I know I am not the only one here who talks about how different our WS become, but I am truly starting to believe that this is alittle like emotional abuse.......to me and the kids.<P>I almost think I need to to plan B to protect my kids from my insanity. I was doing so great with them, really enjoying them and myself...then H gets me to counseling and starts his mantra......<P><BR>My D doessn';t want me to be sad anymore...She told me "mommy, we'll be fine if you want to move away from here or leave this house because of all the memories"<P>Now this from an 11 year old who will not sleep in her own room, is wearing cloths that she found in the attic from a few years ago. (that don't fit by the way!!!!!), tells her counselor she defines her life by the day her daddy moved out.....who's grades have dropped (she won't get into prealgegra), who has dropped out of every extra activity except piano......who is drawing pictures of Jesus and Mary and the Temple of God at the counselors office.....<P>My son won't leave my side. He is afraid I will leave in the middle of the night.....<P>My H treats us like we are aburdon. He is not nice to the kids...<P>Tell me why I should not treat this like he is an alcoholic or a drug abuser and stop enabling him (ie plan B)<P>He went up to see his family and he is lying to them......making me the crazy one. andy you know what,,,,,I am starting to feel like the crazy one. <P>He is not going to admit anything.....<P>If I take myself out of the picture, he will not have me to scapegoat anymore. <BR> <BR>He is really sick. I am not helping. In fact I am hurting him by being available.<P>I have always orerfunctioned for him....I probably did this to him......by overfunctioning for him.<P>The "mouth" does everything for him.....she filters all in and out.......Currently, he is a shell of a person holding on to a thread.<P>Even when I went out of town he was a mess...he came over here when we weren't here and ate and watched tv and he sounded a mess.<P>I do need to do this to protect any feeling or respect I have for him or I won't evern be able to talk "civilly" about the kids.<P>I have NO family......and unfortunately, although his family has been mine and are incredibly supportive, they basically will believe him when he says he is not having an affair......<P><BR>But he won't deny it in counseling, he just won't admit it.....Plus in the beginning he did tell me he wanted to "explore a relaitonship with her" and when I sat there and just pretended I was a college roomnmate instead of his wife of 11 years...he said"gee your taking this better than I thought"<P>THis is INSANITY....<P>Don't worry, I am still being nice. I will write a nice plan B letter....but tell me what is the point of plan a ing when he doesn't want to admit anything, they both have their own apts. he won't discuss anything in counseling or what we can do about anything. I will get nowhere while she is in the picture...And he doesn't seem to want to give her up...even if he keeps saying she isn't the problem...what about her......she has known me and the kids for years....To everyone on the outside, my H and I had a great marraige and he was great with the kids....why hasn't she called me to see what she could do to help???????