I have been lurking here for a while, not posting, becasue I don't really feel I am in a place to help anyone, and because frankly I don't see this site as being particularily helpful. <BR> My biggest complaint is the overwhelming and constant religiosity of MB and the incredibly punitive attitude on the part of the betrayed spouses. The "Apology from my spouse " was the final straw, to see someone so totally debase themselves and see everyone eat it up with a spoon was sickening.<BR> I will ask, but not really expect an answer, does anyone here know of any secular websites that encourage salvaging marriages?<BR> I do wish everyone here well, and hope they can all heal and move on....

Cathrick,<BR> <A HREF="http://www.weiner-davis.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCookie=true" TARGET=_blank>http://www.weiner-davis.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCookie=true</A> <P>This website is sponsored by a very good therapist. He book Divorce Busting was most helpful.<P>I am sorry that being agnostic has made you feel like you can't fit in.<P>I really wish you could reconcider. We need all viewpoints here.<P>Have you read the basic concepts espoused by Dr. Harley? Alot of us try to apply these principles. Some here have a tuff time getting past the pain to see how they could help themselves.<P>Alot of us are christians of one denomination or another. This spiritual base has kept me grounded through many tough times.<P>If you don't feel as if you can get what you need here then I pray you find the relief you need.<P>Bill<P>Irish Blessing<P>May the roads rise to meet you,<BR>May the winds always be at your back,<BR>May the sun shine warm upon your face,<BR>The rains fall soft upon your fields,<BR>And until we meet again,<BR>May god hold you<BR>In the hollow of his hand.<P><P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

Some people just can't take their fair share of credit for the marital non-bliss they find themselves in. Agreed that they are righteously angry and even vengeful at times. So sorry you are leaving, but understand. <P>We have a lot of non- or casual Christians on some of the other boards. Even Islamic and eastern, not to mention nonbelievers of every sort. Please check out the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000025.html" TARGET=_blank>book list</A> before you leave.

cathrick, William is right. The divorsebusting site is very good. They do believe in many of the principals that we seem to share here though..<P>There are a lot of great support forums. One in particular that I've found both humerous and helpful is the MLC forum!!! Good luck!

cathrick, I consider myself agnostic and don't really get into the "spiritual" side of these postings. I don't believe that God had anything to do with my sleeping around on my husband, and he has nothing to do with the changes we are making in our lives. To be honest, though, I'd have to be rather oversensitive about religion to think the members of this forum are guilty of "overwhelming and constant religiosity."<P>I've also seen a lot of 'bashing' on the part of betrayed spouses, but I can understand that they are hurting, and isn't it better that they come here to vent instead of venting on their husband or wife?<P>On the other hand, my husband and I have been reading Harley's books and we are both thrilled with many of the things we are learning. Regardless of what you may think of the way some express themselves on this site or choose to give meaning to their lives and actions, many of those who post here are making great progress and find great support here. Maybe it's not for you, and that's fine.<P>I do encourage you to read Harley's books or at least the articles on this website. They are not religiously oriented at all, they are very practical and they make sense.<p>[This message has been edited by Contrite (edited May 23, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cathrick:<BR><B> I have been lurking here for a while, not posting, becasue I don't really feel I am in a place to help anyone, and because frankly I don't see this site as being particularily helpful. <BR>_____________________________________________</B><P>I am sorry that you feel this way, we really do try to help each other here. But please remember we are all hurting and healing here.<BR>And we are only real people going through this, not experts execpt for having experienced the pain infidelity causes.<BR><B>_____________________________________________ <BR> My biggest complaint is the overwhelming and constant religiosity of MB <BR>_____________________________________________<BR></B><BR>All I can tell you is that none of us mean to offend by sharing our Faith, or lack there of. I can only speak for myself on this subject, but I am a Christian, that is part of me, if I share myself I have to share that part of me too. There is no seperating one part of me from another.<P><B>_____________________________________________ <BR>and the incredibly punitive attitude on the part of the betrayed spouses. <P>_____________________________________________<BR></B><BR>My husband used to post here, he still lurks here. I guarentee you that no one gave him a hard time when he posted, in fact a lot of betrayed wives wanted to ask him questions.<BR>Yes I will admit that we all have our bad days, but as I believe someone else mentioned, better to vent our anger, pain and sorrow here than on our spouses.<P>I have I have been here for a little over a year now, and have not seen a wayward spouse who posted here who was sorry for what they had done and wanted to make their marriage work treated with disrespect. <P><B>_____________________________________________<P>The "Apology from my spouse " was the final straw, to see someone so totally debase themselves and see everyone eat it up with a spoon was sickening.<P>_____________________________________________</B><P>Why did this offend you so badly ? Because people who had been hurt said they wished their spouse's had shown remorse for the pain they had caused ? Evidently the man who wrote that letter didn't feel debased by it. He was expressing his sorrow for the pain that was caused to his wife and to others by his affair. Would it have been better if we had said 'oh that doesn't mean anything, string him up' ?<P><B>_____________________________________________<P><BR> I will ask, but not really expect an answer, does anyone here know of any secular websites that encourage salvaging marriages?<BR> I do wish everyone here well, and hope they can all heal and move on....</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>_____________________________________________[/b]<P>N0, I don't know of any. All of the sites I know of have some people whose faith is important to them and who openly pray for one another in their post, who let it be known that without that faith they may not have made it through the pain.<P>I wish you would reconsider and stay around,<BR>no one feels they are able to help all the time. <P><BR>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>Hepatitis C, educate yourself ! <A HREF="http://hepatitis-central.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://hepatitis-central.com/</A> <p>[This message has been edited by Bozos_ Deb (edited May 24, 2000).]

cathrick,<P>I hope you are still here.<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>Hepatitis C, educate yourself ! <A HREF="http://hepatitis-central.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://hepatitis-central.com/</A>

cathrick:<P>I just read your story. It sounds as though you are in a lot of pain right now. I am so sorry to hear of it.<P>In response to your post, I didn't think there was a tremendous amount of betrayer bashing going on here, but perhaps I am not as atuned to it because I am among the betrayed. <P>Some of the good things that I think I get from this site are: 1) solid suggestions from people who've been there when I have a question about applying one of the principles I've read about; 2) a place to "cry" when I've been hurt where people truly understand and know why I don't "just leave"; 3) knowlege that although I am hurting, I am not alone.<P>As far as the religious posts, that's just some people's deal. It works for some folks and if it helps them to share, that's great. I do not know if I would consider myself a Christian, though I believe that Jesus was a great teacher. My H is Jewish. I get annoyed at times as well when I read some of the more extreme posts (Remember, Fellow MBers, "Not all who cry 'Lord, Lord' will enter into the kingdom of heaven.") but I find other, more secular advice here as well. I try not to let any one post cloud my vision of this board. (WilliamJ: I am looking forward to looking at the site you suggested!)<P>I hope you haven't left for good, or if you have, that you have found a place you feel more comfortable.<P>If you ever want to e me, please feel free. (hbc@tough.com)<P>Good luck to you! --HBC