I am an oldtimer - used to post a lot but ran out of steam and now just consistently lurk. Here's a brief run-down:<P> I first came here in 4/99 after discovering H's six month affair in Jan 99. We have been through *ell (wish I could say and back but we are still there). H lost his job due to the affair - it was fairly public and embarrassing, OW suicide attempt (#1) (Feb), H left me in April, returned after 6 days, swore it was over, restarted affair a week later. I plan A ed. H committed to no contact in May, OW suicide attempt (#2), severe withdrawal/depression for H, more contact - I LB'd and threw him out in June - more plan A while separated, emotional reunion/recommitment by H in July, he initiated and gave OW no contact letter, only to leave in Aug, move out to his own place (1 block from OW) and tell me he wants a divorce. More plan A. H never files. By October he is wanting to spend time with me, emotional anniversary reunion, baby steps toward the marriage. Thanksgiving together, more baby steps. Moves back in in December. Still no commitment to no contact but he is spending time with me. We visit new city together - look at homes - I get my hopes up. Jan 00, H accepts new job in another state. We counsel once with Steve, but H opts out. OW calls house, shows up, H disappears with her several times. More plan A. H moves to new city in Feb 00. I know affair is back on and OW has been to visit him regularly (thankfully she has not moved there!). I stay in plan A but refuse to visit him until affair is over. H visits me and kids frequently. I plan A hard but at a distance. Counsel w/ Steve alone. Kids spend spring break with H in new city. H stops talking about having the family move there but is still loving (and conflicted) when visiting us. And the affair continues…<P>All through H has been depressed, confused, unable to commit - all through I have appreciated how hard this has been for him - to have all aspects of his life screwed up by this, how he sees OW as "getting him through it" and how he now feels unable to break that bond. It was hard for him to find a new job with all the rumors. I was patient and understanding through all this. It does not seem to have mattered at all. OW gets all the credit for supporting him. <P>It has now been almost 18 months since discovery. My plan A has been consistent for at least 12 months. I know what needs I did not fill - I know how we got here. I have grown and like my growth. I am ready to love again and to forgive - but I cannot wait forever. H has noticed my changes but is still so stuck in the affair. H will say he is trying, but I know we have never really had a chance - the affair has never truly ended.<P>I have gone to plan B this past weekend (I broke my line in the sand and visited H in new city - even though I know he spent the previous weekend with OW-yuck). Even after all the above, even knowing this is what I needed to do, and doing it with Steve H's counsel it is so hard… How can you miss someone who has treated you so shabbily? How can he still make me feel so bad and guilty for withdrawing my support from him? I feel like calling him up and saying I didn't mean it… but I know I won't. I could not live as I was anymore. But I am scared that instead of preserving my love for him, this time apart will make me lose what is left? Does this make sense? Just feeling a bit sad today…<P>Any wise words from plan B survivors? K do you remember me? This place saved my life last year, and I hope I was a support to some here as well. I think I may need it again...<P>Starpony

Starpony - you are stronger than you think, and I applaud your plan B efforts.<P>Have not forgotten my sore knees for you, Lilly, and Lor(Lor) from last summer. Romans 8:12, and God's timing isn't our own but don't give up hope.<P>I know you won't lose your love for him, but you will find out that you are your own best friend and you don't 'need' him, but that you love him. It is okay that you went to plan B. <P>Prayers for you still.<BR>God Bless,<BR>TNT

Starpony:<P>I'm so glad and sad that you are back. I have missed you. We both started the forum around the same time last year and I remember your frequent postings.<P>Because you have been gone so long, I assumed that things were progressing the way you had hoped they would. I am so very, very sorry to hear that you are still in a state of limbo.<P>Last winter when you posted that you were on the road to recovery, there was so much hope and so many positive indications that you and your husband were recommiting to each other. Then the vascillating began.<P>The last time we e-mailed in April, you had said that your spouse was confused and I had hoped by now he had made a decision. I had hoped the fantasy of the OAW would have been shattered by now.<P>I hope you'll stick around and keep posting and get the support you need to get you through this. <BR>Starpony, you've faithfully Plan A'd for such a long time; I know this has had to have had an impact on him. <BR>I know you're sad and scared not knowing how this latest stance of yours will effect the marriage, but no matter what, stay here on the forum and let us all help you during this difficult time. I'm here for you.<P>Catnip =^^=

Hey you two! Made my face light up to see your notes.<P>TNT - I can get you a pair of those gardening knee pads! You are so sweet to have kept me in your prayers. Thank you. How are things anyway...<P>Catnip - Thanks for your kind words. This has been one heck of a journey. I can still remember being so touched by your letter to your H that you posted here. I hope you are feeling a bit better and that some of the resentment is fading. E-mail or post - I would love to hear how you are.

Starpony,<P>Hey you ! I am so sorry things haven't worked out like you had hoped. Maybe, just maybe plan b will wake h up. I hope it will.<P>Please post more often and let us know what is going on with you.<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>Hepatitis C, educate yourself ! <A HREF="http://hepatitis-central.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://hepatitis-central.com/</A>

Starpony:<P>It's so good to talk to you again.<P>Thanks for asking how things are for me. They are Ok today. I had a bad spell about three weeks ago when the pain caught up with me again after being fairly dormant for a couple months. I think all the stress of the past year having to put out all the fires, kept me distracted from my pain and I didn't have time to deal with it then. When the dust finally settled a little and spouse went on meds, the pain reared it's ugly head and said "Now you must deal with ME!"<P>My resentments loomed over me like some hideous cloud and I was almost sure I didn't want my husband or my marriage and started lurking and posting on the Divorce forum as I was sure that's where I was heading. Then I got religion or something when spouse started Plan A'ing ME!<P>He had no idea I was feeling so negatively or reassessing the marraige and I have not told him. I just let the tide sweep me away. His Plan A was working on me which I found was an interesting juxtaposition to have the Betrayer Plan A'ing the Betrayed. It was so comforting and I sopped it up like a sponge.<P>The meds he's on has turned him into what I refer to as "Early David Squared"--like he was throughout the 17 years of sobriety before the "fall". I realize he should have ALWAYS been on meds because over the 17 years of his sobriety, he would become 'ugly' almost on a quarterly basis for about a week. Then it would pass and he would be wonderful again. I put up with that ugly behavior all those years for the outstanding and wonderful remaining 48 weeks a year. It all was so normal to me.<P>He had one ugly episode last week and we discovered he had not taken his medication as scheduled and his brain chemistry went awry. He hasn't had a drink since our anniversary on March 22.<P>We are having a 'honeymoon' of sorts. We suddenly have no money because of the financial destruction of the events of 1998 and early 1999, but, neither of us are bothered too much by it. Instead we are taking pleasures in simplicity; like working in our yard, having the kids over for cook outs, having a fire in the fireplace and listening to the radio or watching TV, going to the gym together for a work out, sitting on the sofa together while he rubs my feet and tells me how much he loves me and how happy and grateful he is. Right now, it's pretty dang good. I have no idea how long this will last. I don't know if this is forever or temporary, but for now, I am going to enjoy every single moment because there will be issues on the horizon for the rest of our lives because of the OC and as long as he stays on meds and doesn't drink, we just might make it. <P>Starpony. Is there any chance your husband could benefit from antidepressants? I know this sounds strange but I feel blessed that my husband is bipolar because there is medication to level his brain chemistry and provide him (and me) with a possiblity of a normal life. <BR>I think a lot of Betrayers have something wrong with their brain chemistry, unless they are simply spoiled or weak or have a basic character flaw. I don't know, I am certainly no expert, it just seems that so many have such indecisiveness which is a symptom of mental turmoil that could be corrected through meds.<P>I am so glad you like the changes you have seen in yourself. I imagine your husband sees the changes and your own self respect must be apparant to him. This is such an attractive quality to the WS. I really hope that your change is having a profound effect on your husband. It could be why he is having such a tough time deciding.<P>Sorry to crash your thread with my issues. I tend to go on and on.<P>Catnip =^^= <P>

Starpony,<P>Of course I remember you. I'm sorry to see that you've had to progress to this point---Plan B is scary, and it is hard. And, in fact, you will lose love for your husband. Probably quite a bit at first. But hopefully within a month or so you will stabilize---and you'll find it easier to go along.<P>I'm glad you're talking with Steve. He did a very good job guiding me through this process. Hang in there Starpony---and listen to the pros!

HI Starpony,<P> I remember you and have thought about you alot....I agree with K, Listen to Steve and if he says Plan B do it with as much gusto as you can muster....I'm always amazed how perceptive Steve is. <P> I was in plan B and it was indeed hard, excrutiating ,in fact for awhile ,but I really think it made the difference in my H's outlook.....Take care, we're rooting for you! LU

(((((starpony)))))<BR>things are bad on my end, too. H just never ended it at all, and today im off to the divorce lawyer. I've discovered that my H has problems that run DEEP beyond what I can cope with-a major personality disorder or 2, frankly- and i need to create some stability for my life and my children.<BR>I hope and pray that your plan B works for you, and am glad to hear that you feel real improvement with yourself.<BR>You are strong, don't forget that.<BR>julie

(((((hugs))))) starpony!<BR>Nice to hear from you, though I hate the circumstances. I am sorry to hear that your h just cannot do it with plan a. <BR>You are the plan a queen! Very good at it.<BR>Plan b? I never had to do that but it will be hard. You have to be strong, act on your convictions, be determined. You can always come here when it gets rough. <BR>You have already made the first step, so go forward. Keep the distance. Did you make some plans for him to see the kids and call the kids without you being involved? <BR>cl

Hi Starpony,<BR>I too was hoping things were going well for you. I echo Catnip's thought, how about anti-deps for your H? It has made a difference in my H as well, it's been about 5 months since he began to take them regularly...and I like this Guard.<P>I don't know if this is any comfort, but Guard says that my Plan A did make a difference, even when he was acting solely for his own purposes. He knew I loved him. And although I didn't go to Plan B, I served divorce papers instead--because I felt my love for him was dead at the last separation. I told him I was not available to comfort or talk to him in the middle of the night, I had to get through many painful nights on my own, it was time he learned what it was like. I was pretty heartless. I was ANGRY. You have a right to go to Plan B now, if the OW is getting the credit for support, let her be the one to support him...let him realize how much YOU were there for him.<P>At that point he began to Plan A me and he has done a great job. I've come back around. We have separate households, but spend most of our non-work time together--part of that is the kids' softballs games {sigh}.<P>Plan A is powerful, it just isn't as powerful when the affair continues. And I know you can't do anything about that. I also think taking a break from Plan A, or at least the side of Plan a that doesn't allow our Taker to arise is well-deserved after 12-18 months and Plan B lets that happen. And, if your love dissipates...well, that's part of Plan B, too. Your H always has the opportunity to Plan A YOU and try to win you back...<P>Take care of yourself.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

To all-<BR>Thanks for your support. I have missed everyone here.<P>Deb- I can remember many "bus trips" with you! I am so glad things seem to be evening out for you and the Bozo! Do take care of yourself.<P>Catnip - Actually what you describe does sound like heaven. But you seem to have the right attitude - to enjoy it while it is there, not to obsess about whether it will last. I believe if you truly appreciate, and communicate with each other, it will last. As to your comment on my H, sadly he has been on anti-deps ever since discovery and saw a shrink regularly until he moved. Didn't seem to help much. His shrink was of the "wait and see" variety - just let him talk without much plan or direction at all, and I was in no position to influence H's choice here. To me H still seems VERY depressed. He lapses regulary into self-pity, blames everything and everyone but himself, looks like *ell, drinks too much, doesn't sleep well - but still sometimes has incredible moments of self-understanding and lucidity. During plan A I tried to gently encourage him to find a new doc - but again, I cannot make him do this. I think it will have to come to the crash and burn point...tragic.<P>K - Steve still tells me he doesn't think the affair will last, but that now it will probably intensify. I remember you saying Steve gave your marriage less than favorable odds shall we say... I am curious but afraid to ask him about mine. Nice to talk to you again!<P>Lu - I have watched your recovery and am so happy for you. Doing plan B with gusto is hard. It seems so unnatural when you are so used to caring for someone you love, and when you know they are in such need of that care. <BR>lwb - You have really been the queen of the rollercoaster lately and I salute you for how well you have handled it all. It is so hard when it seems so endless. I am with you in having my priority being stability for me and my kids right now.<P>cl - Yes, we've made plans for the kids to go there in June for a long weekend (H is traveling a lot and this is all he could fit in his schedule) and agreed to plan visits on a monthly basis during the vacation months. I have been clear he can see them whenever he wants - just with enough notice to make travel arrangements. They talk to him on the phone daily, but H is angry that I will not speak to him and fill in the blanks (kids are 6 and 8 and you know at that age their phone skills rarely consist of more that one word answers). This is the hardest thing for me and I do feel very guilty about it. Keep thinking maybe he is right and I am damaging his relationship with the kids - stupid huh? He is the one that had the affair and left. But I have always been the fixer and coordinator of family stuff and I can see why now that I will no longer do that, he is angry. Distressed told me that is good, because it means he needs me for at least some of his emotional needs. When we were trying to reconcile family commitment was his #2 need right after (you guess..) sexual fulfillment so I know this isn't over yet. OW has no chance to fill #2 - and I had been doing a d*mn good job on #1 during plan A (even if he couldn't fully appreciate it! ).<P>Lor - you don't know this but you have been my touchstone through much of this. I was so afraid of staying in plan A too long, even though I felt sorry for H and attributed much of his behavior to depression (as I said above he is on anti-deps but they seem not to help, his doc never tried other varieties). I saw you do this and how you eventually felt nothing for Guard. I am so happy you two seem to have another chance. Just goes to show that anything is possible once you are both on the same page (and that not much is possible when you are not!).<BR>Good luck to you...<P>Starpony

Starpony:<P>I actually can't remember if Steve actually *said* that he didn't have much hope. I just think that I felt that way. Heck, instead of asking him about the odds for your marriage, ask him about what he thought about the odds for MY marriage (tell him it's OK---I said so). My guess is that he go into his "you know what they say about statistics..." speech! <P>I do agree that it's likely that the affair will intensity at first. The poor baby has been "outed", and the only one who can understand his pain is the OW. Of course---she really can't understand this, and she won't appreciate the baggage that this separation brings to the fantasy of the affair. It's very likely to burn out pretty quickly---the "crash and burn" scenario.<P>The greatest gift that I got out of my Plan B time was the realization that I had finally forgiven my wife for the affair. Not that her continuing it didn't hurt---and really, I didn't have much hope that we would reconcile. But emotionally I "released" the pain that I had felt; and I realized that I had become a much better person through this process. With that forgiveness came my "success" in the realization that I would be fine, regardless of what happened to the marriage.<P>And, with that attitude, things went easier for the remaining time I was in plan B (which was short). It also made the initial reconciliation "easy" for me---when most would have been devestated by the unintended pregnancy. Not that there haven't been rough spots later down the path---but we'll discuss those when you get there!<P>You sound pretty together, BTW!

Hi Starpony:<P>It distresses me that your husband is, in fact, on meds but is still confused, not sleeping and drinking too much. I just wonder what the doctor's prescribed for him and if it was the right meds and dosage. <BR>My husband is already starting to build a tolerance for his dosage. Tomorrow he goes back to get his meds 'adjusted' or whatever it is that needs to be done.<BR>I have noticed some aggitation, some obsessive behavior over the past few days, so I know that my husband's meds are starting to NOT do it for him. <BR>Just like anything else, i.e.; alcohol, drugs, if it is used on a regular basis, eventually you need more and more to maintain that level you need to get through the day. This may be true for antidepressants as well.<P>I like that you identify with Lor as she and Guard have gone through an amazing "dance" of push me-pull you for about two years. Her story gives many here hope because if it can happen for Lor and Guard after all they have been through, then it can happen for you and others going through this nightmare. In some ways, their situation is a bit like yours.<P>Plan B, I hear, works very well in most cases. I never got that far...I just threatened Plan B and that was enough to snap my husband out of withdrawal. I guess I was lucky, if you can think that what we go through is "lucky". <P>Stay strong, Starpony. This might not be the end, but the beginning.<P>Catnip =^^=

Catnip-<BR>Thanks for your encouragement. I am sure this is not the end, but a beginning - of what I am not sure yet. <BR>Take care.<P>K - I hope to find the kind of peaceful view toward the future you describe. I know I am a lot closer to real forgiveness than I was a year ago. Hopefully this time will allow me to take the last few steps. Forgot to ask Steve about your marriage odds this morning! <p>[This message has been edited by Starpony (edited June 02, 2000).]

{{{{{{{{{{{{Starpony}}}}}}}}}}}}<BR>I have no words of wisdom but wanted to say I'm glad to see you. Even under less than perfect circumstances. <P>I think that it is very common to keep blaming, justifying.<BR>But does the guilt make them want to blame others? Because they feel bad enough as it is?<P>A thought on the meds. I spent a year on Zoloft. I needed it initially. I did find at the end that it was doing me more harm than good. The emotions were so level that it was almost like a depression. Once I went of of them I could feel the full scale again. Make sense?<P>You know if you do Plan B I will be in your corner praying and cheering you on. I don't post a lot anymore but I think of you often.<P>Take care!!!!<P>Wassi