Anyone out there this early Saturday morning?<P>Another sleepless night. Can't stop obsessing over H and recent counselor visit. Left him voice pages crying and saying I don't deserve this, sd I don't know how he can think what he's doing is right and that their relationship was born in deceit and that will be it's undoing. Big LB, right?<P>What's been weighing on me is I'm convinced my counselor is being influenced by my H. In my visit she sd that the marriage is dead, that's exactly what my H has sd to me. He loves me but the marriage is dead. She's using his words now.<P>I think their both trying to help "me" thru the finality of it but for diff reasons, H reasons are to relieve his guilt and make sure I'll be alright and not feel responsible for my pain.<P>I really am starting to believe it might be over. That H is done for good and there's nothing I can do. I think my counselor is convinced of this as well. She says he doesn't want a D, but I think probably because it would be so much more hurtful to me and right now he may think I've had my limit of bad news & pain. I have.<P>I'm praying and wondering if there are others out there who feel the same. Maybe I'm the one who is in a fog ... <P>I'm going to talk to my counselor about it and point blank ask her. I wish she knew the MB principals so she understood what I'm trying to do. I gave her the book and she sd she'd read it.<P>Tomorrow is OW's Bday, I'm sure H & OW have big plans. I think that's another reason I'm so depressed. <P>Jo

Josey,<P>Marriages don't die. That is just a bunch of psychobabble used to justify affairs. It just means the person who is saying it doesn't want to bother putting the effort into working on the marriage, and wants to come up with a word that sounds final, like there is nothing they can do about it, and it's not their fault they don't want to bother.

Jo,<P>Don't even bother going back to "that" counselor!<P>There are so many <B>bad</B> counselors out there who push the "if it make you feel good" theory...<BR>...and are destroying not just marriages, but lives as well!<P>For a while, I too had a therapist who tried to give me that "...(I'll) help "(you)" thru the finality..." junk!<P>Save yourself a lot of money and time and effort and find one that knows and works using MB principles.<BR>Check out the "Counseling" section on my <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000013.html" TARGET=_blank>Notable Posts/Threads</A> post!<P>You're not in a fog...<BR>...just working through the exhaust of your spouses affair!<P>Praying for you!<P> <P>Jim

Thanks Nellie1 and Jim. Needed to hear that. <P>Jim: I'm gonna go to the links you referenced and check out finding another counselor. Not looking forwrad to retelling my long drawn out story, but if their schooled in MB principals, it's worth it.<P>Nellie1: Have seen you pinging Delphi about an inquiry on a thread she posted. I too am interested in her answer. I'll keep my eyes peeled.<P>Thanks again you guys for the encouragement, I'm feeling better now. Hope you both have a really wonderful day. Good luck on Monday, Jim!<P>Jo<BR>

Josey,<BR> Your neighbor here.I don't have much faith in these counselors,either.Sometimes I think if you can't do anything else,you become a used car salesman,or a marriage counselor.<BR> The one I took my W to after her affair started didn't seem to know anything about affairs.He didn't even ask her about OM,but why she married me in the first place.Of course,that just gave her a chance to re-write marital history,and downplay the affair.Later,he asked me to write a letter of forgivness to myself,for the things I did wrong that drove her into an affair.I dropped him like a bad habit.<BR> Sounds like you need to look around for another one.It must be hard to find a good one.Unfortunately,I chose one that my insurance would pay for.Bad way to choose someone thats supposed to try and save your marriage.<BR> Sorry you're feeling down.Maybe you can send OW a BDay gift,like a whole boxful of our famous Washington slugs.Just a thought.<BR> Try to get out and enjoy our nice weather this weekend,that's what I'm going to do.Take care. <BR> --Murph

Josey,<P>We can go crazy trying to understand them , can't we? The marriage is over but he doesn't want a divorce? He loves you, but wants to live with her? How can that make sence? Its all contradiction. So I think we have to go on and do what is best for us and be strong for us, cause they are just nuts.<BR> <BR>Sorry you are having a hard time, I look forward to talking to you later, try and enjoy this beatiful day.<BR>Lora

Josey:<P>You know counselors are just people and they can be influenced by clients who speak with conviction. There is no more convincing proponent of their rightness then a cheating spouse. So the S tells the counselor the marriage is dead. How many times has she/he heard this? Many times I would think. An experience counselor would know from "where they speak" and assign it it's relative value. <P>If you think that the counselor is taking your H's statements at face value and not factoring in their emotional content and then negatively counseling you based on those statements, then perhaps you do need another counselor. Your wanting to save the marriage and feeling that that is a possibility should be given equal consideration in his/her approach to treatment for both of you.<P>A counselor's best approach perhaps should be to listen to each of you and to get you to listen and understand each other, a third party guiding both of you to work through your own solution...whether it be to continue the marriage or to divorce.<P>But a counselor is just a counselor....and this is one area where you have more facts then they will ever have and they can help you but they can't make the decision for you. Your opinion is just as important as theirs and you have to live with it and they don't.<P>Josey, I don't think it's time yet to give up. Hang in there.<P><BR>Buffy<P> <p>[This message has been edited by buffy (edited June 04, 2000).]