My H is an alcoholic and having an affair. I have posted on the alcoholism message board and many people there say not to put up with his behavior(that is the affair blatently going on). Now what do I do? They say that by allowing him to do this he has no consequenses of his behavior and that with alcoholism only it is a disease but the affair is a real problem<P><BR>Help

bc,<P>I am going to DISAGREE with those people/posters on that alcohol forum that you are mentioning.<P>The alcohol is the ROOT of the problem. How does your H's mind first become warped? It is because of the alcohol. From there, that's where the destruction spirals downward.<P>My therapist even says this.<P>I think somewhere on this website of Marriage Builders, even Dr.Harley says that anything such as a drug or alcohol addiction has to be dealt with FIRST before he even suggests marital counseling. I read this somewhere and I apologize because I can't remember exactly where I saw it.<P>You already know the answers to these questions. There is no more need to find any justification.<P>You are starting to go around in circles again! Remember what you are supposed to focus on. Go back and read your prior posts....<p>[This message has been edited by NoTrust (edited June 07, 2000).]

I'm not regressing I was just curious because what I have read and what my counselor tells me is exactly what you have said and otheres here. I think I need to stay away from that site. <P>Even in Alanon they were talking about the alcohol being his first love and the affair was secondary because she is enabling him. <P>He was out again all last night and I was good when he came home this morning I didn't say anything about where he had been or raise my voice or anything. Just said hello gotta go to work goodbye. <P>I do have a question you might be able to answer. When he says after being out drinking all night "I really need to quit drinking" how do I respond say nothing or do I reply and if so what do I say

I so pleased to hear that you are able to control your emotions around your H. Boy, do I know that is extremely hard, especially when you want to start screaming at him to stop his horrid behavior.<P>I'm not sure about the other forum since I haven't seen it, but as far as what comes first...alcohol or affair...I have to agree with the therapists and the people at Alanon...alcohol is first, and then the affair and all other destructive behavior follows.<P>When my H was drinking, he would say the exact thing, "I need to control my drinking" or something to that effect.<P>The problem is that, alcohol is a disease and with addictions, the person who is addicted will go into withdrawal if they are trying to stay away from whatever they are addicted to.<P>So, even if your H wants to stay away from alcohol (which I don't think he is ready yet), when he tries to, or even thinks about it, that urge eats away at him, and he has to have his quick fix.<P>I have to go out for a little while, but I'll check back later with you. Go back to your other posts, review them, and keep doing what you are doing. It sounds like you are doing good.

NoTrust,<P>So no suggestions as to what to say to him or say nothing when he comments about he needs to quit drinking? This morning I didn't say a thing, went and took my shower and went to work. He was dead tired and had to go to work too. I think the drinking is catching up to him.<P>I didn't even ask if he would be home tonight. <P>Thanks for the support

Hi bc,<P>I'm back! Hmmm...okay...how about when he comments to you, that he needs to control his drinking, your response could be, "That is a great idea! It will be hard, but I know that you can do it! If you would like me to go to AA with you, so that you don't have to go alone, then I will."<P>Then....maybe leave it at that!<P>I hope these are good suggestions. I'm not really sure. I'm hoping that others in this similar situation will read your Post and reply to it. Maybe they have more & better advice to offer.<P>In my situation, my H wanted to go to marital therapy, and from there, the therapist told him to attend an AA meeting. She was the one who kept him focused on the alcohol problem and told him that our marriage deteriorated because of his addiction.<P>All in all...it sounds like little by little, your H is saying small things here & there. Try not to read too much into it. When he is really serious and ready to work on himself, it will be noticed and you will know.<P>Keep calm, do what you have been doing and take care of yourself. Detach. Keep working on that. Stay strong! Don't let him control your emotions. You can do it!

I don't know much about alchoholics and their habits or MO. <P>My H started drinking excessively after the affair started. He said he's drinking was my fault. He drinks nightly as he is a musician and is in the bars due to his profession. Easy access, plus ppl (groupies) always treat him to free drinks.<P>He drives himself home every night and I'm afraid he's drunk most the time, of course he denies it. I fear the worse, that one day he'll hurt someone drinking and driving. I wish and pray he'd just get a DUI, I think that just might wake him up to the fact he has a problem and realize the sad state his life is in.<P>I think affairs and drinking sometimes go hand in hand, but when the question is raised which came first .. the chicken or the egg. Does it really matter?<P>Jo

Resilient,<P>Alcoholism is a disease. My H was a very good person until he began drinking excessively. He made himself sick. Unfortunately, he will have to deal with this for the rest of his life.<P>When a person is intoxicated, they lose inhibitions, sometimes control of themselves, they do things that they wouldn't ordinarily do.<P>With an alcoholic, they need that CONSTANT fix, so their minds continue to be warped and clouded by alcohol. Can you imagine being intoxicated almost daily and drunk daily? Your mind is constantly in a fog, regardless if you have a beer in your hand or not. You can become a "functioning drunk."<P>Alcohol is also a depressent. When my H was drinking daily and excessively he made himself depressed. He convinced himself that he wasn't happy, and all kinds of other weird things, etc.<P>We had a great marriage until the excessive drinking began. He started hanging around guys at work, who always went to the bar afterwards, wanted to be just like them, wanted to have fun, carefree from the redundancies of home-life. He thought it was so fun to be just like them until he became an alcoholic.<P>That's when the horror began, the moodiness, the blaming on me for his alcohol problem, the affair, neglect of kids.....just had to have that quick fix regardless.<P>So, YES....alcohol is the ROOT of the problem. If it weren't for the alcohol, my H would have been thinking clearly. I wouldn't have grown resentful of him for his horrid drunk behavior and our marriage wouldn't have gone through the wringer with this affair.<P>I wouldn't enable his addiction, but the barfly OW did. He met his Barfly at the bar. That's all they had in common....their lousy drinking habits.<P>In my situation, ALCOHOL IS THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM.<P>p.s. You are correct...Alcohol and affairs go hand in hand OR alcohol addiction is an affair waiting to happen! ...I even read this somewhere too! I think it was from the book, "Codependent No More."<p>[This message has been edited by NoTrust (edited June 07, 2000).]

The same thing with my H he meets the OW at the bar after she gets out of work at 11pm and this is after he has been out drinking since 5 or 6pm. What a date. Meet in the bar stay in the bar and with a drunken man who I hardly know anymore. I don't like him when he is in that state he knows all is like God and what he says goes.<P>I try to keep telling myself he only wants to be with her because she enables him to drink and I won't and she strokes his ego telling him how bad his marriage is and that he needs to get out and not to feel guilty. Well h*** she should know seeing she is on her second soon to be exhusband and working on making mine her third H. If for a minute she would think of when and under what circumstances she is with my H I would think she might realize it is only in a bar, out drinking socially after the races, or sneaking about at all hours of the morning, noon and night. I didn't see my H ask her to go to his mothers birthday party. What did that tell her? But of course she isn't real bright anyway if she were she should be asking herself by now when is he going to leave his wife for me????????????<P>It all revolves around the alcohol and the need to have it to relieve stress(an excuse) or make them feel good. The only real thing it does is cover up the real problems and only makes them go away temporarily.<P>NoTrust<P>I will try your advice if he again says he wants to stop drinking and see how it goes. Of course I am home from work and he isn't. I would think his clothes would be pretty dirty by now but drunks don't care about how they look either.<P>Thanks

bc,<P>You sound pretty good in the beginning of this thread. Keep working on not getting bogged down by the details of when, why, where, etc. I do like No Trust's answer to his "I should drink less" comment. "Sounds good honey, it will be hard, if you want me to join you at an AA meeting let me know." And leave it at that. He does not even need to answer, which lets him absorb a new thought. Keep up your focus on yourself and going to those AA meeetings! They can give you a hug in person whereas we cannot. Accept those hugs on our behalf, ok? Thanks. many prayers are said for you each day. Vic

Hi BC -<P>I have been following along....<P>NoTrust has things well in hand with you......keep the focus where it belongs, OK?<P>I am still waiting to hear about how your health is lately....are you getting a handle on it?<P>I also want to know if you got to the deck yet? <P>How about a drive to the casino this weekend? Maybe sis would like to take the ride with you? <P>Keep your emotions intact...no need to be looking at alcoholic sites....Alanon is enough!!! Too many ideas can cause much more confusion.<P>What did you smile about today?<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba

Sheba! Where have you been??!!! I've been wondering where you are. I always LOVE your replies to bc. They are so "to-the-point" and helpful!

Well my health is ok. The arthritis is still acting up but is a bit better. What did I smile about? The raise I got today in my paycheck that my H know nothing about. haha<P>Alanon tonight and I am going to stay away from the alcoholic's message board. Too many conflicting things going on there. I also have to go see my counselor this afternoon too. Guess i get double duty: counselor and Alanon.<P>I am trying not to scream or question my H about anything. He wasn't home till late Monday, didn't come home Tuesday, saw him early Wednesday morning, did come home last night but late. I just say hello and we chat a bit about his work etc but nothing about where he has been for how long with who etc.<P>In a way I feel very distant from him. Its hard to explain almost like not seeing him has sunk in a bit. I still love him don't get me wrong but I am finding it hard to express that love anymore because I am so angry and hurt that he continues the affair.<P>I am not LB but just feel lost and really alone right now.

Hi BC!<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{BC}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Big hugs for you. Listen to NoTrust, she knows what she's talking about. She's been helping me through this too!<P>Keep going to those counseling sessions and to Al Anon. And that other word, so many here tell you... "detach". It sounds like you've been doing pretty good with that.<P>Has he said anything to you about you moving all his stuff into the other bedroom and bathroom? <P>I have no idea what I'd say to "I really should quit drinking". When it comes to this subject, I can be rather mean and vindictive. I won't tell you all the "nasty" thoughts that raced through my mind when I read that. <P>Looking at it through calmer eyes, I have to go with NoTrust. That's if he ever says it again. I hope he does. <P>Hang in there, bc. We're all here for you! Keep doing what you're doing. Don't ask him about where he was or who or anything like that. Keep it light when you have to talk with him. I know it's hard. But, reading your posts, to me, you've become stronger every day. I think you're even starting to believe that, which is wonderful!<P>I'll be thinking about you, bc. Mondo hugs to ya.<P>--purplemag

purplemag<P>He never said one word about moving his stuff to the other bedroom and bathroom. He did ask me where I put his dirty clothes(the ones he left in the living room) and I told him in the spare bedroom with the rest of his stuff. Never once asked why or what for.<P>I left it at that. I hope I feel better tonight after Alanon and the counselor. It usually cheers me up a bit knowing I am not to blame.

bc<P>Oh, I think that would get my goat (that he didn't even ask why or anything), but you are doing so very well with keeping an even head! I'm so proud of you!<P>We are going to counseling tonight too. H has some kind of weird obsession starting on this Odouls stuff. Gotta nip that in the bud!<P>I'm sure you'll get some peace tonight both with the counselor and with Al Anon. You seem to feel so much better after these things. When you get that feeling, hold onto it. Just let it carry you through all this mess. The longer you can hold on to the feeling of being in control and being sane, the more stronger you become.<P>Hugs for you! Keep posting!<P>--purplemag<BR>

Hi bc,<P>Everytime you don't LB and act calmly towards your H, think of it as another babystep forward, towards healing yourself. That's part of detachment, you know. It makes you stronger and more resilient to the mental abuse that your H is dishing out. Your Posts are sounding better 'cause I can tell you are growing stronger daily.

NoTrust,<P>Well I got home tonight and my H wasn't home but I have to leave right after I ate to go to the Alanon meeting. I didn't leave a note he never does. So I get home and there is a note from my H telling me where he was going. He hasn't left a note in months. No I am not even trying to read anything into it.<P>I talked with my counselor and she wants me to think and remember that even if my H stops seeing the OW that the alcohol is a big issue. Without help, she is afraid that my H wouldn't be able to become sober again. I told her that I knew in my mind I would'nt even think about that I was taking it step by step. She said right now with my new attitude that most likely my H is a little uneasy with the change in my attitude. I haven't reacted the way I normally do to his not coming home. She feels that he doesn't particularly care for this because he may feel that he is no longer in control that he can't push my buttons so to speak. I have been trying so hard to go out and do things for me and not worry if I am not home to miss him.<P>One thing in Alanon tonight did bother me a bit. We were talking about infidelity and a few women there said that they wouldn't be able to deal with that because of HIV and other STD etc. I realize that this is something to be concerned about but right now I'm not sleeping with my H anyway. I am trying to work on his first love and that is the alcohol. I may never know what extent the affair has taken but I am smart enough to know to protect myself. <P>Well just an update.<BR>

bc,<P>Did you get a hug for us while you were at Alaon? It is great you are going.

Hi bc,<P>You sound really good! I'm glad that you went to Alanon and therapy. You are doing all the right things towards healing yourself. Even your therapist notices the changes in you and your attitude.<P>I totally agree with your therapist when she says that your H is beginning to feel uneasy because he is realizing that he is losing control over you. Before, you were so predictable, but now, you are working on become a new You....an independent, strong, resilient, woman!<P>Just keep doing what you are doing. Continue detaching. You are on the road to self-recovery AND self-discovery! I'm proud of you!