For more than 4 months now my wife and I have been struggling with our relationship. We are currently separated and their is little or no intimacy of any sort, except when I initiate (not sex; just "I love yous."; hugs; and kisses)<P>What I feel though is her resistance. Occasionally when I say I love you she will catch herself and respond "I know"; and occasionally she might respond "I love you, too." I really sense her resisting. Or am I just reading to much into it?<P>Recently, she has insisted that she is not getting back into the "sinking boat until all the holes are plugged." She is waiting for me to deliver and show significant changes before she commits. She said "I need you to be a 'man' for this family." I am trying but seem to be under a great deal of scrutiny in this respect. It is pressure.<P>I want to return home to show her that I am a "man" and can face our problems rationally and thoughtfully. What do you think? Is that a reasonable way to show her?<P>I seem to be stuck. I feel like I have and want to continue to make significant changes in my life and behavior but she is waiting for I feel dramatic results. How should I proceed? Please respond.<P>

John,<P>It seems like the most reasonable thing do do is to sit down with your wife and draft a written plan that has to do with exhibiting behaviors that "plugs the holes". Get her to clearly delineate what "being the man" in the family means. Sit down and POJA this until you've got a reasonable plan together, with timelines and deliverables. Make these changes with an eye towards her best interests (in Harley speak---use your giver for a verifiable Plan A).<P>If she's not comfortable with you moving back, accept that. But use your "acceptance" as a way to negotiate making this plan. The end goal is to move back together. If you can get her to identify the behaviors she needs (wants) in the relationship, and you have a plan that you can "check off" on over the course of the next few months, you'll see a number of benefits. You'll be encouraged (so will she) when you check these off. You'll be focusing on the "important" things, and not wasting time or effort on issues that you <I>think</I> are important but may be of no real consequence to her. And you be building a bridge back into the marriage by constructive marital behavior.<P>

Thank you. Some of the things you suggest we talked about in our last counseling session. We however, did not write down a plan. Our counseling has always lacked a plan so to speak.<P>I think I would like her to clearly state the behaviors that I need to change or incorporate into the marriage. Writing them down would help me a great deal.<P>How do I approach her to do this and reciprocate my needs or wants list so that she has a clear plan to change her behavior.<P>I am suffering not being close to her emotionally and physically. These are needs that I want fulfilled. How can I get her to agree to attempt to fill these needs. And are they really that improtant right now? Should I quiet my taker and just give? When do I get to receive an equitable share of my needs being met.<P>I need emotional closeness to feel safe and secure in the relationship. Not just to move forward but to know that it will become and remain a vital part of our relationship for life.

John,<P>It's pretty clear that you are "more" in love with your wife than she is with you, right now. So, you're completely correct in assuming that you should put your taker on the shelf, for the time being.<P>When your wife falls back in love with you, she's going to start fulfilling these needs. So, the best way that you can go about achieving that endpoint is to get your wife to help make a plan with you to change these behaviors. You would address this with her in a way that clearly shows that you're doing it for her benefit (which you are). To give her hope that your marriage can be terrific.<P>YOU only address you. She will be unwilling to play along and work on this from her end. But---by going through this process with you, she's going to learn how it works, and she's going to see a demonstrated benefit. The sooner she feels "romantic" love for you, the sooner you will see her reciprocate. If she wants to discuss what she can do to help---then by all means, start to (gently) address the issues (but only one or two that she's willing to start with).<P>I hate counseling without a plan. While it's not worthless, it takes much longer to get the results you want.

Yes, no plan is tough. I have a plan but can not get my wife to step up and agree to it with me. And I do not want to force her.<P>We are attending a Retrouvaille weekend and she has agreed to go to the follow-up sessions. Which is great. I am worried about this "raomatic love" thing though. How is it possible that some one can put up so much resistance to letting go and feeling love again. I mean our love produced to beautiful children together. Why is it so hard to feel it again?<P>I want to love my wife on a much deeper level, beyond just romantic love; more like companionship love and agape love. We never progressed to this stage becuz of all the hussles and bussles of everyday life.<P>I guess I need a woman's perspective on this. It is hard to see her and not want to breakdown and give her my affection and love and have it returned to me. I am trying to be patient with my taker. "He" is growing weary though.<P>Please respond.

John,<P>Retrouvaille may help---it'll certainly be an emotional weekend, and perhaps you can use that to reconnect.<P>I'm guessing that your wife is resisting your efforts because you've hurt her before. Again, the way through that is by establishing a consistant track record of new behavior consistant with what she wants and needs out of the marriage. And while "agape" love is a wonderful thing---most successful long-term marriages are sustained by having a large element of "romantic" love. The real issue is how to build the skills that will foster this romantic love through the lifetime of the marriage.<P>Listen to your wife---she'll help lead the way, even if she isn't "participating".

I'm in pretty much the same kind of sinking boat you are, John. The water's awful cold and deep out here where I am. I'm plugging up those holes as fast as I can.<P>It seems to me that the kind of information that you're getting from your wife is generically helpful but lacks specifics. My wife said similar things - she wanted me to be more "generally responsible". Is that vague or what? <P>I went a long long time (years!) before I figured out my W's most important need. She wouldn't tell me. She was very clear about the fact that she wasn't happy with me, it was the reasons why that she kept to herself. Once I finally got that one nailed, it was only about a month before she let me hear about the next one on the list. She is still very emotionally cold, but boy are things thawing!<P>K is absolutely right - it's consistency in meeting EN's, along with totally eliminating all LB's that gets us where we want to be.<P>When you said "She is waiting for me to deliver and show significant changes before she commits" I knew exactly where you were, because that phrase could have come right out of my W's mouth. You and I are dealing with W's who will not commit until they're sure. My W openly admits that she's afraid that if she commits to me, we'll go back to the kind of marriage hell that she left behind to have an affair. Until she's convinced, there's no committment from her. I suspect your W feels the same way. Scrutiny? You better believe it. I've learned to kind of enjoy it, in a silly sort of way.<P>Good luck, and keep your hands and arms inside the ride at all times.<P>Slightly Sane<BR><p>[This message has been edited by o2bsane (edited June 14, 2000).]

I cam empathize with you! Can you tell me how things are thawing for you and your wife. What are you doing to make things easier for her. And how the heck does a man become "generally more responsible"? What have you done in this respect?<P>I am so tired of trying to guess what my wife is thinking and where my wife is in this whole mess. It drains the brain and the emotions.<P>I am thinking about asking her about honesty; which our counselor brought up the other day. Total honesty about her feelings, her recent actions and her friendship with her boss. What should I do? Wait until we attend Retrouvaille and then ask for honesty there? It is only 9 days away.<P>What do you think? I want to make progress before I lose my motivation and desire. I feel like if she continues to keep me in the dark she is manipulating me and controlling me. It is frustrating. Why do some women react this way, when they are the ones that distanced themselves so far from the relationship with hidden agendas and conflict avoidance.<P>Any thoughts.

O2bsane,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by john meade:<BR><B>I cam empathize with you! Can you tell me how things are thawing for you and your wife. What are you doing to make things easier for her. And how the heck does a man become "generally more responsible"? What have you done in this respect?<P>I am so tired of trying to guess what my wife is thinking and where my wife is in this whole mess. It drains the brain and the emotions.<P>I am thinking about asking her about honesty; which our counselor brought up the other day. Total honesty about her feelings, her recent actions and her friendship with her boss. What should I do? Wait until we attend Retrouvaille and then ask for honesty there? It is only 9 days away.<P>What do you think? I want to make progress before I lose my motivation and desire. I feel like if she continues to keep me in the dark she is manipulating me and controlling me. It is frustrating. Why do some women react this way, when they are the ones that distanced themselves so far from the relationship with hidden agendas and conflict avoidance.<P>Any thoughts.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>