Hi lori:<P>Thanks for responding to my other post about OW. <P>When your h told you he was not coming back, did he say it with such confidence that he was so sure??? Were you convinced he was telling you the truth. Do you think that they really mean it when they say it? IT just sounded so final....<P>After my h told me that the other day, It just did something to me to point me in the direction of not fighting anymore. <P>He also claims he is so so so deeply inlove with this OW and that she makes him feel like he has never felt before. <P>I am sure he forgot how he felt when he met me 20 years ago. <P>Did you ever get that feeling that I am talking about? Hopeless? Or, did you always have faith that he would come back to you?<P>The one thing I keep telling myself over and over again is that we had what everyone thought was the best marriage. Especially myself. My h used to get so upset when people would get divorced and he would always tell me thank god we never have to worry about that. He was so loving and so caring. I dont think I could have been as blissfully happy as I was if he did not love me. <P>I do believe that one can lose the romantic love they feel for some one and I believe that is what happended in my case. This Needey ow came along, dressed slutty, talked dirty to him and managed to hook him into her net. Now he is so far underwater he cant get his way out. The problem is, he likes where he is now. But, he is drowning.<P>I guess you were lucky in that your situation only lasted about 6 months right? I am coming up on the 5 1/2 month mark since they have been living together now and I see no signs of him coming out of it.<P>Just was hoping for additional insight.

OK, I only have about a minute and 1/2 'cause I just heard the shower turn off, but I wanted you to know I saw this and I'll be back.<P>Food for thought:<P>Four days b/f he asked to come home, Robert wrote me the first and only letter he ever wrote while he was gone, simply stating that he was moving on with his life, would be filing for divorce immediately and we made much better friends than we ever had spouses.<P>FOUR DAYS LATER, HE ASKED TO COME HOME!!!<P>Ok, gotta run. I'll be back to tackle this, ok?<P>Love and prayers,<P>Lori

Hi missy, I just wanted to stick my nose in and see what Lostva had to say..<P>I want to hear some inspirational stories, and yet I am feeling so low....and I feel so much distrust towards my H that I actually blew my own plan B. <P>My H called to talk to the kids and we called him and he didn't answer, so we paged him and Private came up on the caller ID (I screen so I don't have to get phone calls from OP's H.)<P>His car phone always comes up with the # and he told the kids he was in the car and I didn't believe him (because he told me he was lying to me and couldn't tell me why he was lying to me) So I got on the phone and asked him where he was very accusatory. Not good huh!!!!<P>I feel so publically humiliated. Why can't I just get over it.....<P>You know, I was at the my therapist today and I came to the realization that even though I come across so together I must feel like I deserve this kind of treatment!!!!<P>anyway, I think your H is where my H is... They don't know where that is...and we have to let them figure it out.<P>I am having a real problem with the anger part of it. I would really like to know how Lostva dealt with it during the bad parts. For me....I know it's looking into my son's face and seeing his own confusion that gets to me.<P>I worry so much that this is just a pervasive part of my H's personality. He blames every job and every persn for his unhappiness. He was married before me...no kids. When I met him he was separated. His family and friends told me they had a bad marraige, but maybe she didn't think so. Maybe he told them that. I believed him. Plus, he told me she didn't want kids and I thought well, that;s a pretty big thing.<P>He knows how to treat a person very nicely while he is getting what he wants, but if you balk at all, he suddenly has to be nasty and then blame.\<BR>I'm not taking myself out of the responsibiltiy but maybe he is just emotionally immature and unable to see his part in any of anything.

Hey Missy9,<P>I too am very interested in Lostva's response to you. I read her hurried thread where H wrote her that letter 4 days prior to wanting to come home. What a 180, that is so weird. Human behavior can be very confusing. <P>I mean he telling her it's over, period, end of story, fini ... and then why 4 days later would he change his mind completely? What happened in those four days? I sure hope Lostva tells us because it's key. I hope she asked her H why the enormous change in heart.<P>Missy9, I know you're apprehensive about tomorrow night's attorney meeting. I responded to your post but I wanted to tell you here too that you can do this. <P>This is a weird way to think of it but here goes ... Your H is not himself, we know that, but if he was here coaching you as his old self (pre-affair/fog) he'd want you to take care of the kids and do whats best for you and them. So if you look at it like that you can feel empowered in the rightness of protecting your family.<P>Hope I've helped a little. Your story really weighs on me. I'll say prayers for God to give you strength tomorrow.<P>Be well.<P>------------------<BR>Jo<P>Josie_Res@Hotmail.com<P>"Remain flexible like a reed, as opposed to an oak that will snap in the wind"

Me too, I wanna hear Lostva's response.<P>But, if I remember correctly - Lori had many dimensions to wanting her marriage restored. First and foremost, she loved Robert so much. Love is such a key - she was worried about him, she joked her way into a mood that helped her cope, she prayed, she had desperate moments but she knew she needed to protect her husband from her own private rollercoaster, so she came here for the support she needed and did not depend upon Robert for her support. <P>Lori's faith deepened tremendously. Lori was tempted to feel hopeless, if I remember correctly, but the support she had here reminded her that although it was a slow process, it was steadily moving forward. She worked on things she could change. She decided not to let herself feel defeated when things happened that she had no control over. She used her time wisely whenever she had an opportunity. But, again - Lori loved her husband very very much. It is much easier to be a giver when you love.<P>Love is an action. I think Lori was creative in trying to find non-lovebusting ways to act out her love, giving her husband space and safety.<P>Well, that is my perspective after following Lori's saga - and I know that there were many times that prayer helped change - maybe not the circumstance at the moment, but the resolve to look towards the outcome.<P>Lori, am I right?<BR>TNT

Hi, Missy!<P>OH, TNT, I do love you!!! <P>Ok, so you guys do realize that I tend to get wordy and talk WAYYYYY too much and you STILL want me to do this, right? I'm gonna touch on a lotta stuff here. I'd shied away from posting lately, but I've actually been ASKED my opinion!! You guys don't know what a mind-field you've set off here!! <P>Now, I'm not particularly wise and wonderful, but I can share with you my experiences and feelings, but that's all. And sometimes those feelings don't follow the norm, so be forewarned.<P>OK, history first, I guess. One Monday, last spring, Robert walked in after work. He leaned over to kiss me and I said "Hi, Honey, I love you." He said, "Hi. I love you, too, but not like I used to - we need to talk." That was my last kiss. And the night of the "I love you but not IN love with you stuff." Also the last "I love you" in any form.<P>Within a week, he didn't love me at all, couldn't stand the sight of me, our marriage had been a mistake and he wished he had never married me. Knew our relationship had been a mistake since the beginning (TEN YEARS???) and it never should have happened. Kristin didn't care for him at all and never would. His family couldn't stand us and we had ruined his life. He couldn't count the number of times he had wished I had been in an accident and died so that he could be released from these "pits of hell". We had NEVER had a good time, never really cared for each other like we should - he couldn't even remember the fun times. And on and on....All this was news to me! We were the couple that most people envied! We had had a hard couple of years, Mom's cancer, Papa's death, but I had NO idea. I wanted to die.<P>THEN, he told me about PT. She made him feel WONDERFUL. He finally knew what true love really was and he wanted to spend the rest of his life with her. He adored her 3 year old and she loved him. I had NEVER made him feel this way, we were never meant to be, etc......you know the stuff, right? The knife turned. We've all been there.<P>So, I came here and lurked. And cried. And couldn't sleep, 30 pounds in 30 days, all the standard stuff. One month later, he left to be with her.<P>When he left, I didn't know where he was. He didn't contact us, not even Kristin. He spent some time visiting his mom, but eventually, cut away from them as well. She was my greatest strength through this mess. Now, don't get me wrong, she welcomed PT into her home, the whole family did. They were afraid they'd lose Robert if they didn't. His sister called me and told me that Robert was finally happy and I should "move on". (Man, I hate those words, what DO they really mean???) But Mom called me daily once she found out what was going on and tried to spy as much as possible. We've gotten closer than I ever imagined we could be.<P>PT and Robert set up house. He already had her moved into a new place b/f he left. They opened joint bank accounts, he brought her HERE when I wasn't here to get some of his things, set her up with OUR doctor (she supposedly didn't have one), took her all around OUR town (they lived an hour away) as his girlfriend. Told everyone he ran into that we were through. In VA, you have to be separated for 6 months to get divorced and he said as soon as that time was over, we were done. Taught Leah to call him "Daddy". (That hurt worse than ANYTHING, believe it or not.) No financial support whatsoever. Took two vehicles so PT could have one. He called infrequently - when he needed something (until the last month), came by rarely, usually to pick up something or hunt. Didn't give me his address or phone number. Was cold and mean to me - wouldn't talk to Kristin at all hardly (except for once or twice during the whole time.) He was someone I didn't even know.<P>The first time I posted here, Deb responded first...."You'll be ok, you CAN get through this, there are things you can do." Ok, so there was NO way she could know..I mean, she could NEVER have hurt like I did, loved like I did, been treated as horribly as I was. Ok, I was wrong. She DID know! And she was right - so was everyone else.<P>I owe my friends here my life. They calmed me down. Showed me I wasn't alone. Cried with me, took deep breaths with me, got me through way too many sleepless nights, laughed with me, and kicked me in the butt and outta feeling sorry for myself when I needed it. I think that was the most important thing of all. And helped me find something to laugh at in the midst of all this mess. I soon discovered I was looking forward to waking every morning.<P>So, like she said, the rawness eased - the hurt found it's place, continuous sorta, but in it's place. I started paying attention to what people were trying to teach me, got rid of my stubborness and self-righeousness. Ordered books, read, read, read! And started thinking. <P>You know, Robert couldn't come up with one specific thing about me as a wife that was bad. Even said so himself. But, once I got rid of the old ideas and opened my mind, I COULD!!! I mean, I had worked my butt off to be a good wife, but..... You've heard me say before that he broke the vow of fidelity, but I broke a lot of them too - unknowingly. I wasn't the best PERSON I could be and therefore, not the best wife either.<P>And I thought about him too. I'd known this man for fifteen years - through good times and what I THOUGHT were bad times (this mess sorta changes your perspective!! ) This was not him...to abandon us, leave us to starve. He and Kristin were "joined at the hip". To say now that he never really loved her, just cared for her? Something was definitely not right. This was NOT him....not from my experience, or that of his family and friends (who he had now begun to turn his back on.) Sooo.....<P>Well, after reading a few books on the nature of affairs, looking realistically at my contributions to the state of our marriage, listening to my betrayer friends on this site, I started to understand. It took away the sting of his words and actions. Didn't erase it - just took the edge off. Through Harley's books and others, I learned about marriages and affairs. From Phil McGraw, I learned about myself. I was insatiable. My basic personality is to DO something. Now, I had a bit of understanding, AND something I could do! I got stronger and stronger. Sure, there were bad days. Thanksgiving and New Years come to mind, as well as one notable weekend w/ two LB letters. (BTW, I found out that he was thinking hard about coming home at that point and my letters talked him right out of it! The power of a LB!! I'm glad - I wasn't where I needed to be yet!) As I grew stronger, I felt freer. I realized that I had the power. He didn't keep me going, I realized it was up to me to do that, and to keep HIM going, too! Even though he didn't know it.<P>First decision. Do I love my husband? Yup, more than life itself - not the things he's doing now, but the man he truly is inside. Second. Do I want my marriage back? Nope - but I want a better one. Third - Am I ready to work for it? Absolutely!! I asked myself these three questions every single day. Every morning, before I got out of bed, I asked myself these questions. Same answer. <P>So I loved him. And respected and believed in the man I KNEW was inside. I learned to look PAST this behavior and into the soul of the man that I was convinced was still there. And tried to understand the torture he was going through - even though he didn't THINK he was. I knew now, right? I took the good little signs and they sustained my love. I blew off the bad stuff as part of the addiction. So it wouldn't KILL my love. I believed in him and lit a candle (still do, for us and all my friends) and every time I passed it, I told him I loved him and I believed in him. The coolest part was I was also beginning to believe in ME!! TNT taught me that, the power of words and belief. <P>Since I couldn't talk to him, I wrote a letter to him once a week and sent it to his mom's. Pop would deliver it to work for me. They were light, funny, flirty, news from home - like he was away from camp and homesick!! Works of art that I worked hard on at first, then seemed to come more easily. Somewhere in each letter, when appropriate, I compared something that I was telling him with a good memory of ours (and then this happened and you know it was just like when we....)and laughed about it. I ended each one with "I love you and I will always believe in you." I never took off my rings. He commented on that once - asked why I was wearing them - really angry sounding. I told him I loved him, I was married to him and I would always be married to him in my heart. He looked annoyed at first, looked like he was gonna yell at me and then got quiet for a minute. Then, with a strange look on his face, he said quietly "Thank you, Lori." I laughed and flirted when I saw him. Once or twice, I teared up, but not often. I saved that for when I was alone. At the end of each of the few visits, I hugged him goodbye and said "I love you." I got nothing except "You DO know I'm getting a divorce and marrying PT - no matter what. And even if I didn't marry her, I'll never come back." I just told him to do what he needed to do, but I'd always love him. I never discussed PT with him, never mentioned her name. I never discussed us or our marriage. If he brought it up, I'd just say I loved him and I wanted what would make him happy. No more. He'd just look at me like I had lost my mind.<P>At first it was "pretending". But I was working on me too, with the help of my favorite book by Phil McGraw. And I wasn't sitting around waiting. I continued to love him, but I had a daughter to raise and life was happening. I knew I couldn't support us and keep this house. She couldn't stay in private school. And I didn't have much time. I knew my job would be ending, just didn't know when. So I enrolled her in public school, started working on the house to sell it. Went to HS football games, shopping with friends, movies with the kids, whatever. I enjoyed more days than I didn't. And grew stronger. So, soon, I didn't have to pretend. During this time, I forgave him. Don't remember when or how, just all of a sudden, realized that I wasn't angry and didn't hold anything against him. Robert had held marriage sacred, had always been there for me, no matter what. Had NO respect whatsoever for any SOB who would stray and was very verbal about it. For a good, kind and decent man - the most wonderful man I ever knew to turn his back on everything that had ever been important to him - something was wrong. And I couldn't love him and not forgive him for something that took him over so completely. I learned to laugh. I began sleeping, I began to live. But I didn't stop loving him. I think THAT'S moving on.<P>Around Dec. he started calling a bit more, bogus reasons, favors he needed. Still talking divorce. But finally communicating a bit. I just listened. Never talked about us. See, now I wasn't "playing" him to get him back. I was REALLY his friend! You know? I cared about him, loved him and wanted what was best for him. Like a real friend would. So, it was getting easier most of the time. Of course, I still wanted him back, but, I wasn't obsessing anymore. He called one day at work, wanted the Dr.'s phone number and wound up getting really nasty with me. I patiently listened and let him talk, no matter what he said, and eventually discovered that he had had a seizure, the first in 20 years, the Friday b/f. Once I thought about it and the way I know my husband is, I realized he could've looked the phone number up in the directory. He needed to talk - he was scared. And, for him, scared turns into angry. And I was the target. Why? Because I was the one he could trust. And I was there for him. I found out later, I was right. Without even realizing it, when he got scared, he turned to me.<P>In January, I got that letter. And 4 days later, he asked to come home. We took a month to make the transition and see each other. He still had not said "I love you." That came during that month. So did our first conversations about us since that very first week. I found out later that he thought he came home b/c he decided he SHOULD. Now, it didn't hurt that PT had been a B**** and I had become someone he enjoyed being around. He told his family he really "liked" me now - I was still Lori, but "more somehow". And I really liked me too - a whole lot more than I did before. I was very proud of myself for what I was doing - for my marriage and for me personally. That shines through, I think. It seems that he had been doing a lot of thinking - for practically the whole time. And then, one day, he heard a song, and it stuck in his head, reminding him of committment and all that stuff. He pushed it away and wrote that letter - fighting the thoughts. Well, on his way over here on Saturday, he heard it again. And he decided. He couldn't "move on" until he had finished this. He was coming over to fix my dryer for me (the FIRST thing he had ever offered to do) and wound up taking me for a ride and asking to come home. No real romance there, guys.<P>The first few weeks were unsettling. PT pulled hard and so did his emotions. There's so much guilt and other stuff. He said he wanted to move out on day 3. He tested me constantly to see if I was real and if my love was real. And, then, very slowly, he became strong. And we began to fall in love. And now, he tells me he loves me forever, loved me even when he didn't love me (that makes sense to me for some reason) and that he's 100% "in love" with me (I hate THAT phrase, too, but I'll take it from him! ) He also says he admires my courage, respects me for respecting him, even when I had no reason to, and that my believing in him made him strong. I don't take credit for all that, but it sure feels good to hear it.<P>Ok, now for opinions. Don't blast me, ok? I never felt humiliated or shamed. We made mistakes and bad judgements, but...stuff happens. I had small spurts of anger - at specific THINGS he did and said, but anger has never come easily for me - I believe it's simply another way of showing hurt, so I never really had to deal with the slow burning continuous anger - I just let myself hurt and dealt with it. Tootrusting is right - we can't force them. THEY have to figure it out on their own. All we can do is be there and love them - if we choose to.... and that's what it is - a choice. We're not doormats or any such nonsense. We're strong and independent and coping with a difficult situation, thank you. And this is NOT for wimps! I can't think of anything less doormatty (like that word? ) than standing strong for what you believe in in the face of all the nonsense. But I'd be there for my child and I decided I'd sure as hell be there for my husband as long as he'd let me - and sometimes, even when he wouldn't. A lot of times it would've been a lot easier to run - For my short time, I chose the other path.<P><BR>Robert didn't decide "all of a sudden". All those months of Plan A (I just do NOT have a Plan B personality!) were slowly building impressions that were eating away at his subconscious. When the time was right, a trigger (the song) brought them to the surface. I'm not so sure that he really did it to "do the right thing." I think that's the excuse for doing what he wanted to do, know what I mean? I mean, his love just grew too quickly to have just been "doing the right thing." He didn't change his mind quickly. Everything was slowing bringing him back to reality - we just couldn't see it. PT was being a B*****. I was being an angel. The fog was wearing thin. The letter was a last grasp to hang on to the "I'll never go back" thing. Fighting back against those nagging thoughts. I found out later that every time he left here, no matter how awful he was to me, he went home and was MORE awful to PT - or quiet and sullen. Then, he'd go out and do something WONDERFUL for her.....trying to hold on, know what I mean? Remember the little Dutch boy? A tiny hole in a dam is NOT a big thing. But that little bit of water, seeping through, DOES eventually break it down! That's Plan A. That's what happened to Robert, I think and so does his mom. It didn't happen all of a sudden, the damn dam just finally broke against the consistant gentle force of the water!!! (I just LOVE analogies - even corny ones! )<P>OK, warned you this would be long and I don't even know if I've helped at all. The saddest part is that it WAS longer....I actually pared it down a bit! TNT summed it up better than me.<P>Ok, so that's the closest I can come to a nutshell version. If I missed a question, let me know. I'll try NOT to be so wordy the next time around.<P>Good luck to you. <P>Love and prayers,<P>Lori

Thanks for posting your story, Lori. You are, I think, the most successful of many success stories, and your account is vintage Harley.<P>Nice piece of work.<P>Tomorrow my H is taking the day off. He offered to go out to the Toys R Us about 30 miles away to try to get us passes for an advance showing of CHICKEN RUN this weekend. I told him it wasn't necessary; that we'd wait.<P>Dragon Lady lives near that Toys R Us.<P>He may go see her for lunch. He may go to her house. I don't know. I'm not pleased. I can't do anything about it. I can't control what he does. <P>Your story gives me the strength to let go of my fears.<P>

Lori, <BR>I will read your long posts anytime. In fact I think we should require you to write one a week to inspire us. LOL<P>Did I miss how you dealt with the hurt? I am like you and I think alot of us are .. we get hurt instead of angry. But how did you keep that from eating away at you and your strong resolve? How to not take it personally when the person you love and need support from the most is so cold and angry?<BR>Lora

Hi, D&C - Honey, you're one of the strongest women I've ever known! I know what you mean, PT still tries, just not as much as before and Robert WORKS at the same place! AAUUUGGGHHH!!!!!!! But he's stronger now, and I don't worry so much. Had a rough time in the beginning though.<P>Lora - I just plain hurt. When the bad times came, and they did, I allowed myself to hurt, to cry, to not sleep. Then I learned that the person who was most suited to help me through this was ME! So, I'd give myself whatever time I needed, pick up my book, do something nice for me and go on to the next challenge. It just kept getting easier and easier for some reason. The bad times were farther and farther apart and lasted less and less time each time around. I had a LIFE to live, growing to do, a daughter to raise, and though I thought about this pretty much all the time, I didn't have the luxury of wallowing, you know?<P>Besides, in growing and understanding, he didn't have quite as much power to hurt me. Does that make any sense? Once I understood the nature of the addiction and the behavior associated with it, I could blow so many things off. Besides, I didn't believe he was gonna come home most of the time....never thought he'd allow himself to "look back" even IF he realized he had made a mistake. But I really wanted him to heal and find peace - me, too, with or without each other. Things that cut me to the quick in the beginning, after learning all I could learn, I could deal with the twinge by saying to myself "typical for the addiction". And that actually gave me a little HOPE! If he was behaving (generally, anyway) according to the way everyone SAID he should, then there was a good chance that he WOULD pull out of it, just like everyone said. I loved him. I needed him to find himself, even if it meant he didn't stay married to me. <P>I guess that's it. I forcused on understanding the behavior. Like when a child tells mom "I hate you", it can tear you apart or you can realize that they DO this b/c they're angry and it's just a sympton of the moment. That way you can focus on how you need to handle it, instead of just reacting. Understanding eases the hurt. That's sorta how I felt about Robert then. Does that make ANY sense?<P>Love and prayers,<P>Lori

Make perfect sense. You are truly respected here! I am a action person too. I have to ACT, to do something, anything. For every action husband gave me I had to react, with LB of words and actions. You have let me see that I should start UNDERSTANDING. But like you I am stubborn and prideful (word?). What I am trying to do now, is stay in Plan A. Husband and I are together, getting along great (this week) but I want to try to stay married in Plan A. I am trying to communicate more lovingly, putting down my armor and say if what i feel for him. I sent him a dirty poem and before I sent it i thought "what if he sends this to some other woman like he's done in the past?" Then I thought "You know what T24G, you have NO CONTROL of what he does, so just send it if it think it will make him smile". And I did. He hasn't said those 3 little words since we had that counseling session and he said the "i'm not IN LOVE with you". But his actions are showing differently which is helping me not dwell on those 3 little words so much, besides I haven't said them to him since then either. I am going to when I feel GOOD about saying it, not just because he hasn't said it to me. Thank you for sharing your story and life LostVA. By the way, we are relocating to the VA area. Is that why your name is LostVA?

Thanks for the inspiration, Lori. Good Lord what a story. Parts of it had me welled up in tears, where he said he always loved you, even when he didn't love you. That did it for me.<P>I do have a question tho ... How long had the affair gone on before your H and you separated? And was it an EA and a PA at that time?<P>I love my H, I'm just abit worried tho because I feel I'm losing respect for him. Daily it's dwindyling ... slow but steady.<P>From here on everyday I'm going to ask myself those three questions you talked about. I think that will help me right at this time.<P>Thanks again for sharing your inspirational story.<P>Very best to you and Robert.<P>------------------<BR>Jo<P>Josie_Res@Hotmail.com<P>"Remain flexible like a reed, as opposed to an oak that will snap in the wind"

Lori, I too love to read your posts. You make all the sense in the world. <P>I've often wondered why I see so many on this board not moving on from the hurt and anger. It's interesting you said it's not in you to be an angry person.<P>For me, it is one of (if not) my biggest fault. And yet, here, where I have experienced the worst pain of my life and have the most reason to be angry, I am really free of it.<P>In fact, while we too had the best marriage of anyone we knew and I thought we were happy; I had built up so much anger over many things that it became "normal".<P>It helped to recognize (also without him telling me) how I had failed the marriage, especially in being resentful over letting him have what he wanted and then being resentful. (Run on sentence?)<P>What a difference living in a relationship where we are always looking for mutual enthusiastic agreement. I think this is the other reason many don't heal. The changes aren't made in the marriage.<P>You did a great job in Plan A, but eventually he loved you back. As you said, he was a good man. Mine is good too, but often rather clueless. We're working on that.<P>Just my .02<P>------------------<BR>Cindy

T24G - Hi! I think you're doing just fine...IMHO. And, you're right, ultimately, only THEY can control their actions, but we have a heckuva lot of influence! When Robert came home, I set NO conditions. And the beginning was rough. But he grew strong and made the decisions that I needed (didn't take a rocket scientist to figure them out!!) without my asking. That meant a lot to me. Yup, Plan A for life - just like Kat1 has always said. That's what it takes. Constantly working on ourselves and loving our spouses. I do believe that, consistantly done, it can break down any wall. Yup - bad night when I made my first post and all I felt was LOST! You're coming to VA!! Cool. Some of us get together every now and then. Let me know!<P>Resilient - Hey!! I'm not sure how long it actually went on prior to d-day. My best guess is about 6 months. According to his mom and sister, it was EA until he left, that's what he told them, but I have my doubts. Nope, I've never asked. I was curious at the beginning of this mess, but much less so as time went on. It doesn't matter much to me - especially now. He met someone, he thought he fell in love, he lived with her, planned a future with her, but came home and realizes we belong together and he loves me. Who CARES about the details? OK, I can understand that some people would, but I just don't for some reason. I don't want to be bothered with things I can't do anything about now.<P>I know what you mean about the respect, I had to change my perspective. I couldn't respect his actions at that point, heck, HE didn't even respect his actions then! But what's a year or so in the grand scheme of things? I respected the man who held my hand during mom's cancer, who raised my daughter as his own, who comforted me when Papa was killed, who, for 10 years, was everything a man could dream of being. I changed my focus, looked at HIM and who he really was and not his words or actions at the time. It worked for me.<P>Schizzo - I've always loved your .02!!! <BR>I've been wondering how you were doing, haven't heard from you in a while. Isn't it amazing how we can free ourselves?? I think that's the thing I'm most proud of. I read in a book once that people don't really change, but you can reach inside yourself and find that you are capable of more than you ever dreamed and that's what that danged "personal growth" stuff is all about! I worry sometimes too about what I read around here. There are too many good people getting stuck. I was worried about ME for a while, but eventually, like you, I let the garbage go and I knew that, even if we were never together again, I'd come out of this a much better person. <P>Another musing (I'm worse than Sheba, I've GOT to stop thinking!! ):<P>I believe that everything that happens has a purpose. But I don't believe that purpose is pre-determined. And I don't think that it's up to us to figure out what it is, but rather to determine what it's going to be. I'm not making sense again. Whatever happens in our lives, wonderful or horrible, can have an effect on us from one extreme to the other and everything in between. Like winning a lot of money seems like a great thing and can solve your problems and make you happy or turn you into someone horrible with tons MORE problems. In the same way, something BAD can happen and can be turned into good, depending on how we approach it. So, we're dealt some cards, and most of the time, in one way or the other, we're responsible for the hand we're dealt. But the fact of the matter is, that's the hand we've got and that's all we have at that moment. Now, it's up to us as to how to play it, what to make it into - something good or bad, it's up to us. That was one of my guiding thoughts through this mess.<P>Ok, I'll shut up now. I'm taking over Missy's thread!<P>Love and prayers,<P>Lori<BR><p>[This message has been edited by lostva (edited June 15, 2000).]

This is a very helpful post. I am truly one of the stuck ones. I go along OK for a while and then my own demons kick in. And I get angry.<P>I know in my heart that this is HIS addiction but it has been sooooooo hard for me to stop being that 13 year old girl who watched her dad have an affair, treat the woman and her children (who were close to my age) better than he ever did us, and brutally emotionally abuse my mom, who just took it. THey never Divorced but never had a great marraige.<P>My dad went on to have another EA, blaming my mom the whole time.<P>I obviously have a lot of resentments and issues related to that. I can see that some of them most likely affected my marraige.<P>That's why for me distancing myself from my H is about ME!!!!! I have to deal with that girl inside of me that feels "what is wrong with me" that my dad would give some other girl my age the love he should give me!!!!<P>As painful as this realization has been for me I know I can;t be my mother. She was the victim for her whole life.<P>I put most of the effort into a relationship without asking for anything back. But I'm sure I built up resentments against my H as he gave less and less. I know anger and resentment manifest in behavior.<P>I want my marraige to work....I do love my H. I think despite the above we can have a great marraige in which we were both fullfilled. But I can't do it alone.<P>My H is in a 'controlled use' state of this addiction, just maintaining that they really enjoy working together and doing missionary work. He is being nice to me and doing well with the kids, but is refusing to "belong": to any of the things in his "old" life. Just maintaining that he's "changed". therfore the old life just doesn't suit him....<P>I guess the old life doesn't suit me either. I'm not going to let the anger that I've felt growing up ruin my life or the kids.<P>Now I just need to find productive ways to do that!!!!!!<P>BTW...."life strategies" is a great way to learn about yourself. THanks for passing the title my way Lori!!!!!!

Wow this thread has really taken off. I have been busy all day today and just got to sign on again. <P>Lostva-I love reading your posts. I think the feeling is mutual amongst almost eveyone on this site. Perhaps you should hook up with the Harleys and do some counseling yourself. You really have a way with giving us all hope. <P>I will continue to have hope for my situation. I will continue to pray to God. I will continue to love my h.<P>I will do this because you are living proof that when you do believe things happen. <P>I don't know how things will turn out but there must be a reason for this..<P>Thanks again for your support. <BR>I wish you could be my own personal counselor..

Dear Lostva,<BR>It was suggested that I read your posts and now I understand why...you have truly inspired me...feel like I am whining...I guess for me, if you care to read my posts, the most difficult thing has been dealing with my H's lack of desire for intimacy with me. It hurts so much - major rejection. And, I can't tell you how much reading these posts and having these wonderful supportive people have been. Your story gives me hope...<BR>THank you!!!]<BR>God bless, A

First to tootrusting - glad you like the book. Actually, I'm going through it and doing the whole thing again!! It's amazing. Different Lori now, different perspective. Never hurts to keep growing. It's hard to get past those things that happened in our youth. But what a great start in RECOGNIZING that! I think it's terrific. That's the key. Recognizing what triggers have helped to shape our behavior and then taking action to change our thought patterns. You'll eliminate the anger - turn it into another emotion that you can resolve...you've done too much and worked too hard to let THAT slow you down now!! Just hang in there. And, back to the book, the first time I went through it, I enjoyed it and it made sense and I did the homework - sorta. When I went through again, I gave it everything I had - what a difference. My own thoughts made me cry sometimes, but the healing was amazing once I was done. Keep it up!<P>Missy - Hi, Hon. Sorry to talk so much on your thread. I just read your attorney thread - you handled yourself well. I didn't have to worry about Robert wanting Kristin to be w/ PT - he just ignored Kristin completely!! (Still baffled by that). He DID however, include PT in everything - events with his family, everywhere he went. It didn't hurt. I heard once he got angry with her (well, more than once, but that time he snapped) and said "I can't take you ANYWHERE w/out your embarrassing me!" Yayyyyy, PT. so, I think you may be right in thinking that could go in YOUR favor. Hang in there, Sweetie. This is a tough ride.<P>Ann - Thanks for the compliment - I'm no different than anyone else here. Keep working on your marriage - the emotional intimacy and you can bring the physical part along - VERY SLOWLY. It wasn't great when Robert came home...and it still isn't as great as I'd like, but we've made tremendous strides in that department. And you're right - it's an amazing feeling of rejection. But remember, the brain is the largest sex organ. Keep touching his brain and his heart....the rest will come. Also, search in read-only posts for threads by Sir Hurts Alot. SHA has had the LONGEST period of working on this of anyone I can remember and he has some great tips on getting closer - emotionally AND physically. Good luck!<P>Lori

Lostva<BR>I too today was directed to your post. I just couldn't believe what I was reading. It was like looking into a mirror and seeing US. We have been married for almost 29 years, and H just returned to town after a 7 month seperation. My H could be your H. I mean as far as loving and kind and the best father and husband ever. Until D day and then like I said before , like looking into a mirror. <BR>H is here in town , going thru withdrawls and yet talks to me and spends alot of time with me. Many times he will say "I don't know why I'm telling you this" but proceeds to tell me about OW. Or how he feels about Ow and keeps reminding me he's IN LOVE with her. But then says in the next breath, I haven't contacted her and I won't, we are done. <BR>I want to be here for him. But yet feel like I am being taken advantage of. <BR>today your post made me see I need to keep focused this is the "addiction" and now he is in withdrawl. <BR>I remember thinking the second day is was back in town. I am so much further along than he is, he's still stuck like the day he left.Waffeling, not sure what he wants. Wanting to be here , there, no where in particular. Soooo confusing for me listening, I can just imagine how difficult this is for him. Then I realize we all have choices and this is the how HE is choicing to live his life right now. Nothing I can say or do will change his mind, until HE is ready to do it for himself, not for me.<BR>I do want him to be Happy, with or without me, and I want that too. I want that for our children as well. They are 25, 21 and 12.<BR>Our daughter has cut off all ties with her Dad, she is so angry with him. I don't push either her or him to resolve their conflicts.<BR>They must do it for each other, not me.<BR>Since H is in withdrawl, I am having a hard time hanging on. I beginning to feel Used,..<BR>Any suggestions to help me get over this phase?<BR>Tonight I said I would treat him to dinner.<BR>But today I really don't feel like just sitting around listening to him talk about OW. I think I need a break. He has been back 2 weeks and it seems like every day either I bring it up or he does. I guess because I do inquire whether she has tried to contact him, or he her. So far he says NO. But yesterday he said he wanted to. Yet he wanted me and needed me ( if you know what I mean) I get little bits of hints of him coming back and then Bam!! he goes back to his New behaviour. <BR>Help me, today I just want to have him here and in bed with me, but I don't want to sound needy. I hate this roller coaster.<BR>Help me get back to my stable emotions, like when he was gone.

Lori, <P>You pulled me out of lurkdom to comment on your wonderful and powerful story. Your husband is a VERY lucky man. <P>I'm close to posting a success story too. Still thinking about it. <P>I see a lot of similarites in our stories. One of the keys that I hope some of the newbies are picking up on is how important it is to not try and force a husband/wife relationship right away. I found the same success as you did by first becoming my wife's friend again. What a truely wonderful story you gave us.<P>You go girl!<P>Take care, <BR>SHA <P>------------------<BR>There is only one happiness in life, to love and be loved.<p>[This message has been edited by Sir Hurts Alot (edited June 16, 2000).]

Tyra - it's amazing how similar we all are sometimes!!! <P>You know, I don't see that you're being used. OK, here we go with Lori's odd points of view again!! <P>Your h IS in withdrawal. And still a bit in the fog. His power of choice is really not as it should be right now. You know, one of the things I've learned from some betrayers here AND my husband is that there is a period of time that they seem to KNOW what they should do and it actually CORRESPONDS with what they really WANT to do, but they can't seem to find the power to do it, know what I mean? I don't think it's a lot different that we betrayed saying "Well, I TRIED not to LB, I didn't WANT to LB, but I couldn't HELP myself!" It takes time and a tremendous amount of courage and strength for them to face the things they've done and take that risk of trying again. I mean, look at it, they weren't COMPLETELY fulfilled in the first place, or someone else couldn't have slid in the picture. And one sympton of the addiction is that everything SEEMS even worse than it was! So, we're asking them to come back to a situation that they don't have a clear memory of, only that it didn't seem to make them happy. That's hard. PLUS, there's guilt and shame and all the other really hard emotions. And tons and tons of fear. I have such admiration for betrayers who find the strength to start heading in the direction of home, don't you? We've got to look at it from THEIR point of view!<P>I think it's absolutely terrific that he can talk to you about this stuff, even OW. I remember the first time that Robert said ANYTHING to me about PT...I posted about it! "What is this, intimate conversation?" I was thrilled. Because that's what it was - a level of intimacy and trust that we hadn't shared for a long time. I was becoming his friend again!!! Yayyy for me!!! and Yay for you, as well.<P>Honey, I don't see it as being used and I never saw it that way for me either. You're building trust and friendship and showing you're strong enough to be there no matter what. I think that's wonderful. More and more opportunity to show what you're really made of and to help him find himself, simply by being able to unload on you. I took it as a sign that things were working just as they should and I took every advantage of the opportunity. I've said it b/f and I'll say it again - this is NOT doormat stuff! This is only for the strong at heart! Use these steps to strengthen the bond between you.<P>SHA - it's so great to hear from you from deep in lurkdom!!!!! I can't wait to read your success story! Thanks for the "atta girl", but where in the world do you think I LEARNED such patience (or my feeble attempt at it anyway!) You, my friend, are the KING! <P>I'll be looking for that thread!<P>Lori