<B>A Clean Place to Make an End of It</B><P>What intrigued Bob Gibson-----bothered him,actually.....was how clean the inside of the car was.Somone,quite possibly the dead woman herself,had vacuumed the interior rugs w/special care.<P>There wasn't a speck of dust anywhere on the dash,either,or along the steering column;even the short stalks behind the knobs on the radio had been wiped.<P>The leather cover over the gearshift box had been cleaned of the dust and grit that always collect in the creases.That had taken a wet cloth or chamois,Bob realized.So the cleaning was not just a casual,spontaneous effort.<P>It wasn't a new car.From where he was leaning into it,w/both fists pressed into the driver's seat,Bob peered a little closer at the odometer.The light wasn't all that good in the little garage,and the car had been backed in so that the waning winter daylight from the open garage door came through the windshield directly into his face.<P>Still,he could make out the figures:47,583.No,not a new car at all.But one in great shape.Bob leaned across the seat and,w/ the tip of his index finger,ticked the switch on the armrest to lower the passenger window just a bit.<P>He checked to see if the earnest young policeman at the door had noticed,but he hadn't.If he had,and objected,Bob would have argued.The smell in the car was nauseating,and he needed to relieve it by letting a bit of draft through.<P>It was a smell he'd encountered before.Not so often as to be familiar w/it.Maybe a half-dozen times or so in the past 30 years,but after the first time he'd never forgotten.It was the smell of a body in the early stages of decomposition:a hint of sweet and a hint of foul.Sickening.<P>The smell clung,too.The garage door had been open for several hours,ever since the body had been discovered earlier,around noon.But the whole building was still filled w/the odor,and Bob knew it would be a long time before the fabric in the car would be free of it.<P>Inside the car,of course,it was worse.The doors had been open only long enough for the photographer to do her grisly job,and then again when the coroner removed the body.Bob was here to tow away the car to the police pound.<P>Over his years as owner of Palgrave Motors,Bob had come to know the police very well and he was the one they invariably called in situations like this.Therefore it was not,as he had reflected only seconds before,the first time he had been called to the scene of a suicide.Nevertheless,although all he had to do was take away the car,the whole business gave him the creeps.<P>According to the coroner,the woman.......Bob didn't know her name........had backed the car into the little garage some forty to fifty hours ago,closed the door and simply sat there w/the motor running until the inevitable happened.The body had gone unnoticed for almost two days,the coroner estimated.<P>"You didn't touch anything,did you?" It was Officer Shaw.Bob hadn't heard him come in.The young policeman had been left behind by the investigating detective w/specific and stern instructions that nothing was to be disturbed.Shaw took the order seriously.<P>Bob looked at him,uncertain just how to put his suspicions.He pointed to the two-way radio in Shaw's belt.<P>"Can you call your sergeant on that?"<BR>Shaw didn't answer;he just looked at Bob curiously."Cause I think he'll want to take another look at all this," the older man said."Missed something,I think."<P><B>Why has Bob Gibson drawn this conclusion?</B>

Hmmmmmmm...<P>Seems to me the window switch shouldn't have worked in a car that was allowed to run until it ran out of gas, after which the battery would have died cuz the ignition would still have been on?<P>(May not be right, but it was fun trying! )

Hey, Suse, I think that's a good guess, I wouldn't have thought of it. It's just that my thought is the initial idea to the story, if she had just run the car for two days there should be dust and a grimy slime all over the thing from the exhaust. He said it was clean as a whistle, right? <BR>Funny thing, to post this story on a board full of suspicious people! !<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!

Gina,<BR> Why was Bob suspicious?Probably because,why on earth would anyone commit suicide when they owned a car with ONLY 47,583 miles on it?!<BR> <BR> --Murph<P> <BR>

This is disgusting, but I don't think that I would have wanted to put my hands on the seat if the woman had died there. The car would <B>not</B> have been spotless, KWIM?<P>Also, the other points are excellent. The key would have to be on in order for power windows to work, and I should think that the exhaust would have left some sort of deposit on the car, even the inside.<P>Also, the woman should have left some fingerprints/smudges, although I don't know if Bob could have seen them. Also, 40 to 50 hours is roughly 4 days, so do any of us who clean house honestly think that anything would be dust-free, especially in a garage, after 4 days? Heck! I swear that sometimes I can write my name in the dust on my furniture only one day after I've dusted!!

Sweetpea,<P>When they say 40 to 50 hrs, aren't days 24 hrs? If so, then that translates to max of two days and two hrs. Which jives with the coroner's report of the body not being discovered for almost two days.<P>I'm with Suse on her theory about the batteru being dead, hence the power windows should not have worked. However I really don't know how long it takes to drain a battery, even if it's a Sear's DieHard.<P>Jo<P><P>------------------<BR><BR>Josie_Res@Hotmail.com<P>"Remain flexible like a reed, as opposed to an oak that will snap in the wind"

I don't have a license and never tried to drive so I have no clue.. I give up!!!

Resilient,<P> A big ol' <B>DUH!!!!!</B> for me!! Can't imagine why I typed in "4 days"!! But, you're right. It would only be a couple of days...still long enough for a lil' dust to accumlate....if it was <B>MY</B> garage! <P>So........anybody know how long would it take for the fumes to kill her? How long after that would she have started to .....er, smell? Looks like it's time for a lil' bit of research. Let me go check, and I'll get back...<P>OK. I've checked a couple of sites. One said that a 35ppm (parts per million) concentration of CO over 8 hours is deadly. Another site said that a 100-200 ppm has a maximum exposure time of 15 minutes...I presume before death. The question would be how long would it take for such a concentration to build up in the garage.<P>Another thought: The car windows were up. Wouldn't it make sense to have the car windows down in a closed garage? I know about the warnings about sitting inside an idling car with the windows rolled up, even outdoors; but, it seems to me that if she was committing suicide, she'd want to get it over with ASAP, so wouldn't the CO get to her faster if she had the windows down?<P>Another thought. It was winter. If the weather was cold, it should delay the composition a bit, although I suppose she had the heater running. But, once the car ran out of gas, the heater would have stopped heating and the fan should have run the battery down.<P>Dang! Now I won't get a wink of sleep tonight!! <P>[This message has been edited by Sweetpea (edited June 18, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by Sweetpea (edited June 18, 2000).]

Very good research SP. They said it was a small garage, so I'm thinking single care garage.<P>As far as the windows being up, yeah, that's pretty good too. But I think when people are distraught they don't think to roll them down, MAYBE?<P>BUT you may be right, think the windows thing could be really good evidence of foul play.<P>When is W.G.up.H gonna publish the answers?<P>And BTW, maybe I'm a dork, but what does W.G.up.H. stand for?

I found another site with more definite CO percentages:<P><B>CO concentration in Parts Per Million or as as percentage of air.</B><BR> <BR>400 ppm .04% Serious headache - other symptoms intensify. Life threatening after 3 hours.<P>800 ppm .08% Dizziness, nausea and convulsions. Unconscious within 2 hours, dead within 2 to 3 hours. <P>1600 ppm .16% Headache, dizziness and nausea. Death within 1 - 2 hours. <P>3200 ppm .32% Headache, dizziness and nausea. Death within 1 hour. <P>6400 ppm .64% Headache, dizziness and nausea. Death within 25 - 30 minutes. <P>12,800 ppm 1.28% Death within 1 - 3 minutes. <BR> <BR>Effects can vary significantly based on age, sex, weight and overall health.<P>This is very interesting stuff, but I suppose it has nothing to do with why Bob was suspicious. The cleanliness of the car was what bothered him, and possibly the fact that the power window worked, too. I just thought that the fact that decomposition of the body was far enough along to smell up the whole garage might have been something to consider. Anybody know how long that takes? As I've said, it was winter, and cold weather slows down decomposition.<P>I've checked for when putrification (smell) starts in a dead body, and the only thing I've found is that it <B>starts</B> at about 2 days after death, depending on external temperatures. Warm weather means that it will start earlier; very cold weather can delay it. So, my question would be: If she's only been dead a couple of days, is it possible that the odor would be strong enough to permeate the entire garage, especially since the car windows were up?<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Sweetpea (edited June 18, 2000).]

Hi Girls! <P>I am very impressed! <P>You have really done some home work.<P>I hope that you did get your sleep!<P>I just put this on the boards to think about other things for awhile! <P>My name stands for <B>W</B>on't <B>G</B>ive<BR><B>U</B>p <B>H</B>ope.<P>Some have said,Wont Give Up Husband..<BR>.....Will Give Up Husband...<P>Anyway.You girls are very very close!<P>I will give you all the answers later today!<P>Have a good one.<P>Gina <P><BR>------------------<BR>"If we deny love that is given to us,if we refuse to give love because we fear pain or loss,then our lives will be empty,our loss greater!"-----Anonymous----<p>[This message has been edited by w.g.up.h (edited June 18, 2000).]

OK Gina,<P>Good one. Finally something to get our minds off things.<P>First, I don't believe there is enough information in the story line.<P>What make is the car?<P>What color is it? [Plays an important role for me]<P>6 or 8 cylinder?<P>2 or 4 door?<P>hardtop or convertible?<P>A/c, cruise, AM/FM CD? WE NEED TO KNOW THIS!<P>OK, my conclusion. You say the car was backed into a small garage, huh?<P>Obviously there was someone else involved with this. [male] You can't tell me that a woman could back a car into a small garage. I don't buy it. <P>Just kidding Val hit our garage so many times pulling in nose first and it's a two car. Only playing. <P>Don't kill me girls, just having fun.<P>I'm really not sure of the answer, there are so many misleading verbages in the story. <P>Is it an electric car?<P><P>------------------<BR>"It's not over till we say it's over! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? H*ll no!" Blutto...Animal House 1984<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic

Just another thought...<P>Since the car doors had only been opened twice...once for the photographer and once for the coroner to remove the body, shouldn't there still have been a high level of carbon monoxide in the car? Only problem with that is that Bob wouldn't have been able to smell it, even if there hadn't already been a strong odor<P><I>Sigh!</I> I guess it comes back to the car being too clean and the battery not being run down. And, I still don't think the driver's seat would have been in any shape for someone to put his hands on it.

Hey Sweetpea,<P>All of the descrepencies are really good. Don't know what you mean about the driver's seat being in any shape for him to rest his hands on it. Why wouldn't it be?<P>So thought I'd compile a list of what you have so far:<P>1. Car too damn clean. Should have OC residue.<BR>2. Car's battery should have been dead hence electric windows would not be functional.<BR>3. The stinche in the car should not have been strong as the body would not have decomposed enough to cause it (2 days), factor in the winter weather which would have made it less peutrid.<P>4. Car windows were up as opposed to down. If someone wanted the full effect of OC they would have rolled them down.<P>Did I get them all Sweetpea? You've really done some stellar reasearch. What do you do for a living BTW? If you're not in research, you should be. <P>Jo<P>------------------<BR><BR>Josie_Res@Hotmail.com<P>"Remain flexible like a reed, as opposed to an oak that will snap in the wind"

Jo,<BR> The reason that I think the driver's seat shouldn't be in any shape for someone to put his hands on is because (assuming that the woman was sitting in the driver's seat) I understand that when death occurs, there is a relaxing of muscles that control certain bodily functions below the waist. I could be wrong, but I <B>think</B> that is what usually happens.<P>Of course, the woman could have worn Depends so she wouldn't mess up her nice clean car. <P>And, no, I'm not in research; but I love a puzzle and when something intrigues me, I try to get to the bottom of it. Maybe that's why I've stuck it out with H for so long!

You Girls have really done a great job!!<BR>I hope that you had a "little" fun,trying to figure this out.<P>Tim,thank you very much for the Laughs.......<BR>You have such a great sence of humor,I really needed after the day that I had today!!.......thank you! Oh,and Tim,you were right about one thing........a women didn't back up the car! ....good call!LOL<P>Here is what they have down as the answer.<P><B>One of the very clear pieces of evidence is that the body has been dead for some time.The odor makes that certain,so it is quite likely that,as the coroner says,the victim has been dead for forty to fifty hours.</B><P><B>Therefore,if the woman backed the car into the garage that long ago,and left the motor running until she died,the car would have run out of fuel,and the battery would have been drained to powerlessness owing to the fact that the ignition was left on.</B><P><B>Yet Bob was able to lower one of the windows by simply ticking the switch.He suspects that this car may not be the place where the person died.</B><P>I have 3 of these books........they are really good.Called "5 Minute Mysteries".<P>Take it easy....................<P>Gina <P><P>------------------<BR>"If we deny love that is given to us,if we refuse to give love because we fear pain or loss,then our lives will be empty,our loss greater!"-----Anonymous----

Back up to the top.<P>Hey w.g.up.h,<P>We're ready for the answers, right Sweetpea?<P>Dying to know. SP has put mega work into this. She's GOOD!<P>Waiting, waiting, waiting ....<P>Uh hum, where are you?????????<P>Jo