Hi all , my H and I had a longgggg heartfelt session today.<BR>He has been sharing how he feels about OW.<BR>He is not familuar with all MB principals.<BR>Anyway he is now here in town and OW is still in MN. She broke up with him. Appears their relationship is off and on. Her mother has made reservations for him to fly out to MN to see her(OW) 4th of jUly weekend( also our anniversary) To "once and for all work this out". They have not spoken to each other for 3 weeks. She ended the relationship and the last time he told her if she did he would never call her again.<BR>Well now he is wondering if he should call or go see her to make sure this is what he wants. <BR>I told him I was sure you all would give him some perspective and be honest....<P>Some of you know he is back in town, looking for work, but has not moved back in. Still sitting on the "Fence"....Still has loving feelings for OW, but does for me too.<BR>We spend many hours talking and being together. We always were able to satisfy each others need for conversation... That is still true today.<BR>Anyway I think he would like to hear from betrayers and betrayed alike. So please help me . I want him to see that you all have been there, done that, and are all working on the same end results. Trying to save your marriages.....<BR>Lostva and Jim, I would especially like him to hear from the two of you. One who is in recovery and one that is still like me and not giving up, even though it is getting harder and harder....<BR>Thanks Tyra<BR>You can call my H Mitz......

Hey Tyra! <P>I don't have any advice but I just thought it was kinda cool that we can call your H Mitz. That's my name!! <P>Good luck to you guys,<BR>Mitzi/Mitz

I am leaving my marriage because my H hasn't tried. There is nothing for me to stay for.<P><BR>Mitz, <P>My advice is that if you want to be fair to your wife, honor your years together, and honor your commitment to God, you've got to give his marriage a fair shake. There is nothing harder than making a lifelong commitment to someone. There are challenges every day. But I also feel that there is nothing more rewarding than getting to the end of your lives and seeing what wonderful memories you made together. Yes, you may have YEARS of trying times, but how comforting is it to wake up beside that same face that has been there through rough financial times, health problems, parties, holidays, vacations, sick kids, buying that first house, and seeing the kids you created together graduate from college and have their own children? When you can do that together, you have something really incredible. You have a history that means more than the first heart stirrings for a stranger. Yes, that may be exciting, but that is not going to see you through your dad dying, your pet dying, or being diagnosed with something horrible yourself. When someone commits his/her life to you and means it (as your wife obviously does or she wouldnt' be fighting so hard to keep it together), that is someone you can count on to be there for you and deserves the same from you. Your wife has proven by her forgiveness and all she has done in the past, that she loves you and is deserving of your devotion. Doesn't she deserve the same?<P>No matter what tore you apart, I feel that there is something still remaining that you can build on to make your lives happy and fulfilling for both of you again.<P>I wish my H had given me a chance. I deserved a chance and a lifemate. Your wife does too.<P>Popeye<p>[This message has been edited by popeye (edited June 22, 2000).]

Hi Tyra...<P>My e-mail... as well as a number of others is now nicely summarized in <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000166.html" TARGET=_blank>Roll Call Index</A>.<P>Hi Mitz...<BR>I know you don't know me...<BR>...I'm sometimes known here on the forum as the "welcome wagon" since I greet new people (Betrayed/Betrayers/Other Persons) to the forum. (see <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A>)<P>Anyway...<BR>I am the one not giving up yet... <BR>I am a betrayed spouse...<BR>My wife(W) found her lover on the Internet...<BR>She was very often depressed (especially after returning from vacations)... and has already admitted that she was having a midlife crisis. She said, I just didn't make her "flip" anymore.<BR>She moved out 10 months ago to live with the Other Man(OM).<BR>We have 3 kids... she left them with me.<BR>My W continues to be quite abusive to me...<BR>name calling... expletives... physical gestures... putting me down in front of the kids... (I think you get the picture.)<P>Many people, even at this forum, have thought I should just give up... push forward the divorce she has already filed against me... and learn to get on with my life...<P>But... you know what...<BR><B>They're wrong</B>...<P>I got married... just like Tyra and you got married <B>for life</B>.<P>Tyra clearly sees in you...<BR>...much like I see in my W...<BR>...a person once comitted...<BR>...and for whatever reason... losing some of that focus.<P>What we often see are "not the same person we married"...<BR>...but know that <B>that</B> person... still exists...<BR>...still knows the right from the wrong<BR>...still knows how to find the way<BR>...still knows there is so much more to be gained in rebuilding a marriage<BR>...instead of living a single life of "what ifs"<BR>...instead of starting over... without having built the skills to do it right<BR>...instead of letting the heart lead the mind to destroy so much.<P>I can type all day here and preach to you...<BR>...it won't do as much as it you just...<BR>...stop<BR>...and spend a few minutes each day and reflect!<P>Reflect on the value of family...<BR>Reflect on the difficulties the road to divorce will bring...<BR>... my W and I are well past $20,000+ in attorney fees (and no we can't afford this!)<BR>Reflect on how much easier it is to build a relationship with a committed person...<BR>...than a new woman...<BR>...a new woman who clearly doesn't value the permanance of marriage...<BR>...who has no skills to love... they way you know "to be loved" is what you really need!<P>I offer to you Mitz to contact me by e-mail...<BR>(I'll be around for about 5 more days before I go on an extended vacation)... so if you wish to contact me... do so quickly.<P>I have no hatred in my heart for any "betrayer"... not you... not my W.<P>I've been around the forum for 9+ months...<BR>...what you'd call a veteran on these forums...<BR>I've read much from betrayers and betrayed alike (even the OPs)...<BR>I don't believe every marriage is salvagable...<BR>...but when <B>one</B> is as committed as Tyra...<BR>...and see in their spouse (you Mitz)...a substance in true understanding of the choices...<BR>...there is more than hope!<P>We at this forum... besides talking and venting... do a heck of a lot more...<BR>...we can help!<P>...we have helped Tyra...<BR>...we can help you...<P>...How about it?... friend... <P>Jim

Hi, Mitz! Glad to hear you want to hear from us. We're in recovery now, going on five months and doing great - better than we have in years! This is a hard response to make, I tend to talk wayyyy too much (as Tyra will tell you) and there are so many things I want to say. I'm gonna talk for me and for Robert here. Another friend of his asked him the a similar question just yesterday and we just talked about what he told him last night! What timing, huh? So, after I run off at the keyboard here, I'll tell you what he told Bobby. I'll check when he calls at lunch, too, and see if he wants to add anything else.<P>I'm so sorry that you're having to go through all this. I do realize what a terrible position you're in....how much these things are hurting you. I've lived through it with my husband and I know how difficult it can be.<P>I'm also proud of you that you're considering working it out. It takes an amazing amount of strength and courage to make that step. It seems as though the easiest thing to do is to walk away sometimes, but I can promise you, if you choose to stay and you and Tyra work hard together, you'll never ever be sorry that you did. You have my deepest respect for the effort you are putting forward. You deserve it.<P>It is sad that we let our marriages get in the shape sometimes that it seems like we have no choice but to start anew. I think back and I realize all the times that Robert and I shared, all the love and the happiness, all the promise we saw at the beginning...and all the dumb things we did to let that slip away. None of it was on purpose. We both THOUGHT we were trying the best we could, doing everything we knew how to do. But life throws us problems, and busy schedules, and along the way, I think, our priorities got a little shifted. There's so much we didn't know that we DO understand now. That's the big difference I think. We made some mistakes that SEEMED like neglect and well, you know what happened next.<P>Robert left me thinking that he had found the "love of his life". And I have to admit that PT gave him some things he needed that I hadn't been. We had had a rough couple of years and some tragedies just before. I would never dream of discounting his feelings for PT at that time. They were real "in love" feelings - the kind he had for me at one time...but also the kind we all have for people in the beginning of relationships early in our lives. I know that Robert never stopped loving me..he told me after he came home "I always loved you, even when I didn't." I know what that means. Our love, like yours and Tyra's, is something deep and abiding that would always be with us, I believe. What we had lost, unfortunately, were those wonderful feelings of being "in love", the ones that make you feel so deeply for your spouse and so great about yourself. And we now believe that a successful and happy marriage needs BOTH! Thank heavens we now know that both are possible and obtainable, even after you think there may be no hope.<P>He left me to live with PT. They planned a future. He planned to adopt her daughter. Within a few months, he discovered that his "caring" for me did not diminish, though he still felt he wanted a divorce. He also found that the deep, comfortable, peaceful feelings of committed love were not coming for PT. And, unfortunately, if those feelings don't come, the feelings of "in love" eventually dim.<P>He didn't come home initially because he couldn't bear to be apart from me. He knew he loved me and he decided that a committment had been made and he should stand by it. He was concerned that he wasn't madly "in love" with me and that he had feelings for someone else, though by now he realized they were fading. He was concerned that he'd never get past the transgression...he'd have to pay for it forever. But he HAD noticed that I was growing, too, and learning more about our marriage than I ever had before - we both did. So, he asked to come home...to see what we had. He came back initially because of committment and the still-there feelings of caring and love that he had. And it pretty tough on both of us at first. Tyra could help you through that part...we know what to expect.<P>But it didn't take long, Mitz. Robert's read the MB principles, thinks they make sense, but isn't the type for any kind of structured program. We made some promises to each other, pulled together our own "rules" for rebuilding, based on what I've learned and what he's learned during our time apart. What was gonna be a six-month "test" soon became "forever" - and it didn't take long at all - just a quick adjustment period. The feelings of caring and committment grew deeper and the other feelings grew. Now, my husband tells me that he loves me, is completely and absolutely "in love" with me and will never leave my side again! And I feel exactly the same!!!<P>We laugh and talk and have fun together. We tackle problems together like we never did before. We CHOOSE each other's company, give each other space, and feel like we haven't in years. We hit a bump here and there...that's life. But, as Robert's told me and other so many times..we KNOW we're blessed. To have a second chance. To have a love that can survive the tests that this one has, to have each other and our daughter. We have more than so many do and we are so very thankful.<P>Yesterday, when Bobby came up to Robert, he told him that next Wednesday will be his 14th anniversary, and also the day the appointment is made for them to sign papers to separate. How sad. He knows what we've been through, he knows Robert's home and he asked his advice. My husband's a bit more blunt and not so wordy. Pretty much, here's what he told him:<P>"You married this woman because you loved her. If those feelings of love have died, it's because the two of you LET them die, through neglect or whatever. You have made a promise to each other, yourself - everyone, to be married forever. You have brought children into this world with the promise of a home with two parents. You swore your life to this family. You are a man and it is your responsibility, plain and simple to keep that oath. What kind of man do you want to see when you look in the mirror every day. I didn't for a while...I let other things get into my head and spent my energy building something with someone else. I wonder sometimes what might have happened if I had spent that SAME energy cultivating the relationship with my wife. What a WASTE! You said you deserved to be happy and you're right. But you CHOSE this woman to be happy with and it takes all these years to determine she's not "the one"? Gimme a break. It took all these years for the two of you to get lazy and forget, that's all. So, do yourself a favor, her a favor and your kids a favor. Find a way. You loved her once, you can love her again. Find yourselves again. Do whatever it takes, find whatever help you need before you tear so many people apart........I'm sure as h*** glad I finally got my head outta my *** and came to my senses. Look what I would have given up!"<P>There was a bit more, but it's kinda harsh. These two have been friends for years and he can give him the "man" lecture without losing his friendship, even if it makes him mad. But you get the drift.<P>Back to me again..<P>The fact of the matter is that, at this point, you may not be able to see OW and "test" your feelings for her. It may simply add to the problem. What the time calls for is a decision. (I'm pretty big on decisions...made a lot of them myself this last year - some really hard ones.) You do love Tyra. You did commit to her. And you do deserve all the happiness that the world can offer - both of you do. And Robert and I are living proof that you can find all that happiness together.<P>You may be surprised to know that I have actually advised a few of my friends to split (don't flame me guys!). There were situations that there was just not much hope for and those people did not belong together. I whole-heartedly supported their decision to divorce. So, I'm not telling you this opinion because I'm a die-hard MB - but I guess I sorta am. But you guys aren't in that position and you have such a wonderful chance of happiness together.<P>So, I guess all these words (I WARNED you I get carried away!! ) are to offer some pretty simple advice:<P>You've already realized that the relationship with OW can be rocky. You already know that you still carry feelings of love for Tyra. You have to make a decision. IMHO, the decision to commit yourself to each other and to building a marriage that will sustain the two of you and bring amazing happiness is absolutely the smartest one to make. You don't need to see OW to do this. You need only to look at your wife, how much she really must love you, to think of the times you've shared, the joys and the sadness, the things you've faced together, the love you felt for each other when you promised each other your life. Think of those things, Mitz. It won't always be easy, not at first anyway. But it GETS easy. And so worthwhile! Robert and I would BOTH tell you that we have in so very many ways, the best marriage we have ever had....and it's getting better every single day! <P>Good luck to you. I am very proud of you for the steps you have just begun to take. Keeping taking them. You'll never regret it.<P>Love and prayers,<P>Lori<P>

Tyra and H,<BR>My situation is quite a bit different than yours, but there's one primary question I'd have for H. If something was lacking in your existing marriage that led to the affair, what makes you think that it won't happen again in your new life with the OW? Wouldn't it be better to learn what made this happen in the first place? and then arm yourself with the necessary tools to fix your marriage!!??? Ok, so it was three questions..