Why do I do this to myself. I had been better about not snooping, but since he told me he wanted out it has been escalated a little. <P>I found his date book for this year. I has all the times he has seen her with a little heart with an arrow on the date. And numbers, they are up to 43. I don't know if it means sex or just meeting, but my mind goes to the worst. The worst part is when we were on vacation in April she must have been writting in it too. Wrote "I cried today cause C is leaving. Will miss C all the while he is gone." On one day while we were on vaction she wrote that she got a phone call from him. <P>I know this should not change my plan A behavoir, but its so hard. I was trying to convince myself that I was crazy and they are just friends. I can't beleive I even asked him point blank if he had fallen in love with her and he denied it. I hate that it looks looks he is having a fullfledged affair. I talked to Jo last night after I found it and she calmed me down so that when he came home I didn't confront him, just went to bed early since I have a cold anyway. Didn't sleep. <P>I was trying to feel charitable towards her, but have lost it today. I am so angry at them both. I don't know if I can continue to love him. I don't know anymore if I can forgive him. It hurts so much to see this deciet documented. I think I am cured of snooping for good. What more do I need? <P>Anyone have any words of wisdom for me today? I don't know how I will make it through work. And he is off all this weekend too. I just want to kick him out, say go live with her if she is so perfect.<BR>Lora

I know everything will sound empty and not even begin to ease your pain, but there is some kind of relief that comes from having a better idea of what you are dealing with, rather than a vague idea.<P>You no longer have to put up with that "friend" stuff or wonder if you are the "wrong" one. You know.<P>You will have a huge range of emotions as you process this knowledge. Be careful before acting on any of them.<P>Take care.

Thanks FHL,<P> I am trying to stay away from him til I settle down. I don't get angry very much, but apparently I am getting better at it from working on it in counseling.<P>I am so ticked that when we had our talk he said he wanted out and he didn't want to work things through because he was never going to have another relationship...Bull*** he's already hot and heavy into one. <P>I guess I do feel a little better to know I am not crazy... well about this anyway. My obsesing is a different issue.<BR>Lora<BR>

Is it possible you are obsessing because you were being told one thing and your intuition was telling you another? Maybe your obsessing was a bit primal in nature, your way of trying to protect or defend yourself. Maybe now you are gaining factual knowledge, your obsessing will fade.

I hope I can stop obsessing. I feel like as much as I was trying to accept what was happening I was still in denial. I used the just friends to cling to as much as he did. Now I am just in pain. I want some protective coating back!<BR>Lora

Hi Lora,<P>I'm sorry that your H is still continuing to lie to you. I don't understand why they just don't come out clean so that we don't have to second guess things or snoop to find out the real truth.<P>You deserve to know the truth especially in your own marriage! I agree with FHL. I also believe that your intuition was telling you that something wasn't right and that's why you snooped to find truth. That's the reason for the obsession. I have snooped and haven't ever regretted it. At least I found out what I was dealing with. I got tired of being lied to, day after day. Even if the truth hurts, the truthis still what I want.<P>After you calm down, I think you need to confront your husband (in a non-lovebusing way) and tell him what you found. Let him know how painful this is for you and that you are aware about deep he is involved in his affair. After listening to him, proceed from there.<P>I wish that you weren't going through this. My H & I have been in recovery for over a year, but it pains me to see people hurt from affairs. Doesn't marriage mean anything anymore??

From my experience of hearing one thing from my H and his actions not lining up to that, followed by discovery...in some ways you'll feel better--you aren't crazy and needlessly suspicious. In some ways you'll feel worse from the deceit and betrayal.<P>Another thought, I know when I had given up on my marriage, I said I didn't think I'd ever have another romantic relationship, my H had said the same thing the year before--we both had someone very close to us when we said it, but I believe saying that is part of the feeling of failure on the part of the WS, or in my case a betrayed-turned-WS. The marriage has failed, stats on new relationships are dismal, you feel like you will spend the rest of your life alone. So, Lora, he might not have been lying to you, it might be an indication of the hopelessness he feels?<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Lora}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

Lora,<P>The pain was incredible when I found out, yet at the same time like FHL said, there was a relief in KNOWING what was going on.<P>For a month he had been denying it, no it was me that was messed up and he wanted to move out 'cause he didn't love me. He was sooo mean.<P>I thought, "Oh, is that what this is about?". And I did finally get all the story one night. Full-fledge PA, he was in-love with her, and no, it wasn't the first affair. My life was over!<P>But here I am, eight months later, and we have a much better marriage than ever before.<P>FHL was one who encouraged me back then. How are YOU doing, gal?<P>I think the best thing is to show him the book and tell him you want to know everything. Prepare yourself - LBing would feel really good, but it would be much harder for YOU in the long-run. I didn't kick him out of the bedroom, let alone the house, and thank God I didn't. Did you read my story I posted recently?<P>If you search on my name (schizzo - gonna change it soon), it was something like A story of hope, a success in the making. Sorry I can't find the link.<P>My h also said he would go live alone. Lor may be right that he is feeling hopeless.<P>------------------<BR>Cindy

Hi Lora,<P>Yes, it's just the worst part of this, but the others are right, it's so much better to know it all. My H lied to me for years, made me feel like a crazy person because of my suspisions. I snooped (hate that word) until I had enough evidence to nail him, and he came clean one night when I knew he would as he had been drinking.<P>It was the best and worst night of my life. I now knew I wasn't crazy. I believe strongly that knowledge is power, and with this knowledge, now I had a place to start, a beginning point...something real I could work with.<P>I would get physically sick when I found something that proved what I was feeling. I'd have to lock myself in the bathroom when I was going through things so that if I got sick I was close to the toliet. Gross, I know but that's how hard this is. I've seen so many here say that it's the lies that hurt the most. I can get past the things he did with OW, but the constant lying...ouch.<P>Please Lora, don't kick him out. I made this mistake and at the time it seemed like the thing to do, because we were both just hurting so much. Sometimes a seperation can be good, and I'm hoping in our case that he is so miserable living in an apartment alone that he'll just sit there and think, but instead he is sitting in bars at night and drinking.<P>Wait until you've calmed down, and decide if you want to confront him with the evidence. Be prepared to hear things that will hurt you. I thought my H would be so sorry and beg my forgiveness, but nope...he got hard and cold and is still trying to justify his behaviour by blaming things on me.<P>Wish I could be more help, but you just don't know how they're going to react when you show them that you have the truth. Be strong. You now know all you need to know. You are in a better position now than you've been since this whole mess started.<P>allison

Lora,<P>I want to share my recent experience with you - perhaps it will help, perhaps not. Since I discovered my H's affair in January I have been PlanAing - when confronted he admited to affair and agreeded to stop.<P>For the past month or so I have been susicious that they are not finished, but difficult to determine since they work together. Anyhow - I downloaded WinGuard (thanks Jim!) on my computer and discovered that they were e-mailing ( I had recently asked him point blank if that was why he was online so much - he denied it). I already knew that if he was still involved with her on ANY level I was going to kick him out - so I did and I left to visit my family in TN for the support.<P>Both things were the BEST things I have done - my family has been wonderful and supportive and my self esteem is returning.<BR>BETTER - is that the day after I left he called first thing in the morning to say he really wanted to try and he would do ANYTHING - including quit his job and move (not an option before).<BR>I told him that it was probably too late - because it probably is. We have a 2 and 1/2 month old and he knew what he had to lose by keeping up the relationisip - on any level - with OW. I feel GREAT about this decision - I feel in control and confident about myself and my life.<BR>I don't know if it is too late for our marriage or not - I do know that he destroyed the last bit of respect that I had for him by lying to me (again).<BR>I know that kicking him out is not a MB principle, but he needed a wake up call, and besides, I why would I WANT to be with someone like that anyway ?<BR>Don't know if this helps you or not, but from my recent expereince I would say: be the strong woman that you are; demand respect. One cavet - I kicked him out NOT because I hoped that he would come back - I kicked him out because I couldn't take it anymore.<BR>

Lora, it might help you to take a look at the questions archive on Peggy Vaughan's site:<P> <A HREF="http://www.dearpeggy.com/questarc.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.dearpeggy.com/questarc.html</A> <P>Particularly these, which give information on how to confront:<P> <A HREF="http://www.dearpeggy.com/quest082.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.dearpeggy.com/quest082.html</A> <P> <A HREF="http://www.dearpeggy.com/com013.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.dearpeggy.com/com013.html</A> <P> <A HREF="http://www.dearpeggy.com/quest034.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.dearpeggy.com/quest034.html</A> <P>Your H is baffling because he says he wants out, but yet he stays.<P>Where did you find his date book? Did you have to go digging, or was it in a place where it was easy to find? If the latter, it almost seems like a cry for help -- like he WANTS you to know and confront...perhaps so you guys can open up and talk; perhaps because this is an exit affair.<P>I wouldn't be surprised if your H has no idea what he feels. He knows he's dissatisfied with you and feels better with her...yet he's not in love with her...or if he is, he doesn't want to hurt you by telling you.<P>I like this sentence from the Vaughan site. Whether I'd have the guts to use it is another story:<P>"I need an honest answer to the question I'm about to ask you. I hope the answer is no, but I need to know the truth. If the answer is 'yes,' that's not necessarily the end of the relationship. But if it's 'no' (and I find out later you were lying), I'm not sure we would be able to overcome that." <P>Lora, you have to decide if you want him before proceeding further. If you do, you'll have to fight the urge to kick him out. I know that instinct; you want to get the hurt over with already so you can move on. It's a self-preservation mechanism. <P>But his signals are still mixed. When my father wanted out, he rented an apartment and left. And he had 2 kids. Why hasn't your H left? Why hasn't he admitted to the affair even when confronted? Because he's not sure.<P>This is good for you, if you want him.<P>You must stop snooping. It does not help your Plan A. Now you know that there is at least something inappropriate going on. Call it an affair once and for all and work with that assumption.<P>Is it possible that your H doesn't feel he's in a hot and heavy relationship? After all, it was this WOMAN who wrote this in his datebook, not him.<P>You gave him that letter and it got better for a while. Maybe he's ready to clear the air?<P>Only you can decide what you can handle and what you can't. I know that low self-esteem makes it harder to do. Be sure that whatever you decide, you work with your counselor on those issues.

lora,<BR>iam so sorry for your pain.I obsess also,when your heart is breaking it is hard not to obsess.<BR>I agree,itis better to know than to put up with the friend stuff.your friend from the sun shine state.soon2bx

Thanks all, H is home tonight so i can't post much, will do it tomorrow.<BR>Lora

Thanks all for your replys, I so appreciate all your opinions. I wrote a long reply and it got booted off.... I hate that. I need to learn to write off line I guess.<BR> I was surprized so many of you thought I should confront him with the info. I thought the plan a thing to do would be to just ignor it and continue plan A. I found it snooping in his daypack, so it is kind of a LB no matter how I bring it up.<P>I am thinking of using Dazed suggestion of how to confront and ask him point blank if he is having an affair. Then if he denies I guess i could say I will be honast and tell him what info I have and hope he can respect me enough to do the same.<P>He just sends so many mixed messages. He went to costco thurs and bought 2 huge bags of charcoal and a new phone to replace the one that isn't working here. So hes planing on staying awhile and grilling I guess. But we usually charge it and I pay the bill and instead he wrote a check.<P>Then he came home for dinner both nights, and today we are going to his Moms. Maybe OW just can't cook.. the next PT in the making?<P>What do you think about me asking him if he still plans on leaving and if he has any plans for when?<P>I will not kick him out, but am not sure of how to procede.. strickly sileint non confrontational plan A, confront with evidence, try gentle confrontation about furure plans or another loving letter asking him about his needs. What do you think?<BR>Lora

Lora, I don't know what you should do.<P>However, before you ask your H is he is having an affair, you better be sure the two of you have the same definition.<P>If this thing is still an EA, he might reason it is not an affair if sex is not involved. <P>Plus I would doubt if he would be any more honest than he has been.<P>If you used Dazed excellent sentence, just be sure you are both using the same definition of any terms you use.<P>He may be thinking he is the good guy in this in some warped way, if he thinks he is protecting your feelings.<P>I don't know if this would be advised (probably not) but if I successfully resisted the urge to confront with the journal in my hand (or behind my back), I think I might be tempted to write a little note in it myself. Something nice, but gets the point accross that you know something is up, or just a request to talk...<P>Just a thought.

FHL,<P>Now I know you are truely nice. My first inclination was to write something not so nice in it.<BR>Lora

Oh...my first inclination wouldn't be to be nice...I'd have to force that.<P>However, if your goal is to get the truth out AND save your marriage, you have go past the first inclination sometimes <P>If you wrote something in the journal, that may have the added benefit of letting the OW know you know...and that you care. Who knows what your H is saying about you or your marriage. <P>

Ya, he is just so good at not responding to anything I do. I would do it and he would never say anything and it would be just one more thing between us that we don't speak about. This room is so packed with elephants, its no wonder we cant get close.<BR>Lora