The more I think about it, the stranger it seems. When I first met my H, he did seem to be a conflict avoider. He told me that one of his first wife's complaints about him was that she didn't think he was assertive enough. <P>Within a few years after my H and I met, he no longer seemed to avoid conflict. He became reasonably confident, and sometimes too assertive - and I am not talking about his relationship with me, but his relationships with co-workers, and other people. For the next twenty years or so I would never have described him as a conflict avoider - which is one reason it took me a long time to realize that he was apparently not telling me when he was unhappy, and letting resentment build up. He always seemed to let everyone know when he was unhappy, in no uncertain terms, except for his parents, and apparently me.<P>In retrospect I can see that he has been suffering from depression since he had to give up working for himself. But as recently as just a week or so before he left, he still seemed to be anything but a conflict avoider in his relationships with non-family members. Now, however, during the few times I have seen him interact with other people (having nothing to do with our marriage), he generally seemed not at all confident. His entire demeanor has changed, and he reminds me more of the way he was when I first met him. For years, I just thought he became more confident as he matured, but now I am wondering if the confidence, and the conflict avoidance has more to do with depression. Which one is the "real" him?

Nellie, you know....based on what I've read in your posts I go with depression.<P>My H is similar to yours, except his family and I somehow convinced him to go to counseling in the beginning of this...even though he kept saying "I don't have a problem". He has been going since Feb. It hasn't solved the problem, but I know it slowed it down....<P>He know has backed away from the relationship thing with OP, but is unwilling to give up the intense EA coworking etc...thing.<P>My H now says he's "changed"...but into what he can't articulate...nor can he say why his change necessitated hating his wife and children and leaving them.<P>ANyway....I think it is hard for any of us to face ourselves...our felt failures....insecurities......immortality....I think that sometimes emotionally immature people would rather retreat into a fantasy than "wake"up !!!!! <P>I know for me...I always carried my H emotionally for much of the marraige...the past two stressful workaholic years made me retreat a bit myself,,,,resentfully and I know I passive aggressively let it out on him!!!! Not good on my part.....<P>If he ever comes out of this deep fog, I know where we might start!!!!! but I can't count on it can I????

Yep... Nellie...<P>Your H... and my W....<BR>Big into depression...<P>Like so many other "social" illnesses...<BR>...without help<BR>...without hitting a "bottom"<BR>...it doesn't look good. <P>Keep yourself up!<BR>You know you're doing a great job with the kids...<BR>...few can compare with what you give them!<P>You'll always have my admiration!<P> <P>Jim

tootrusting,<P>When my H first left, he agreed to go to counseling, but the counselor didn't want us to discuss anything except helping the children deal with the separation - because, she told me later, she thought it was pointless until he admitted that he was having an affair. She recommended to him that he go to individual counseling, but he didn't want to. The counselor claimed that it wasn't a marriage counselors job to help people decide whether to stay married, which I thought was ridiculous. My H agreed to go see a pro-marriage counselor at my request, but didn't like him. <P>Jim,<P>Thanks for the support, Jim. <P>I don't know how long it will take him to hit rock bottom, or if he will continue to blame me for everything even then.

How are you doing, Nellie? Has there been any improvement?<P>Hang in there. It doesn't sound like you had a great first marriage counselor. Experiences like yours discourage me from looking, but I know good counselors are out there.<P>Hang in there. All the best. --HBC

HurtbutCoping,<P>There may be good marriage counselors out there, but certainly not many. The second counselor we saw my H hated, and I thought he was a bit weird myself. The counselor we saw to discuss child issues wasn't much better. <P>I will never understand why people say they have "learned so much" from their spouse's infidelity. I have learned that it is never safe to trust your instincts, to trust that anyone is telling you the truth, to trust that someone whom you think you have known for years is really who you think he is. I have learned that you should never, ever let your spouse know you are angry, never have any disagreements, because they will never get over it, they will always resent any disagreement you have ever had. We almost never went to sleep angry - at least I didn't. Maybe he was just pretending. <P>