We talk a lot about the guidelines for separation (duration, rules of contact, purpose of the separation, etc), but what about the guildelines for reconciliation? <P>* Do we move back in together or "work on it" in different residences? (this is important so that we don't invalidate our property settlement). Please give reasons for your opinion (this is a test! haha)<P>* Do we establish a... hm, what would you call an agreement about property that occurs during marriage? it's not a pre-nup, it's not a post-nup. ?<P>I believe there should definitely be a No contact with OW rule, but in our case, I think there should be a no secret female contact period. No female friends. My H doesn't have any use for women he's not sleeping with. I'm the first and only female friend he's ever had.<P>I believe we need a mandatory counseling rule. My H has been twice in 10 months and never with me.<P>I believe we need the honesty rules and POJA. <P>What else? Am I missing something?<P>In my "Poorme returns" post, I asked if I should reconcile. I'm still interested in more feedback on that but in our particular case, I am afraid that the talk of reconciliation revolves around money. I am thinking about giving him a quit claim deed on our house and a document which nullifies our property settlement. I feel my character has been attacked and it's never been about the money. I feel I have something to prove and if he's only in it for the money, he can save himself the trouble and me the heartache and just take the money. Am I being foolish? Please help. I don't have much time before he's going to want an answer about our future.

Popeye:<P>If only we could look into their hearts and know for sure. <BR>That's the tough part for all of us attempting reconcilliation in the beginning. We are never quite sure what their motives are... is it because they are truly remorseful and recognize what they have done and love us deeply and want to repair and restore the marriage? Is it because it's 'easier' to come home to us than start over with uncertainties, is it because of financial implications, or pressure from family or their own concern of how they appear to the community? <BR>There are so many reasons for wht they come home and why we take them back. Sometimes it may START out with a less than acceptable reason for their return but then can grow into something deep and meaningful.<P>If the motives are just about money, that to me would be the toughest, simply because it seems so mercenary and make me feel used. I guess all the motives would make me feel that way except for the realization that my spouse woke up and realized I was the best thing that ever happened to him and he was in love with me.<P>In one of Poorme's earlier posts, he spoke about his love for you and how taken he was with you. He talked about your beauty, your intellect, your overall specialness...that you were the most outstanding woman he had even known. I believe him. I believe that he really and truly feels this way. But I also beleive that the finaincial part is also a factor, though secondary.<P>To reconcile, I believe both spouses must live together in the same house and resume the marriage and behave like married people, building their lives together. The problem of finances have to be addressed, the property settlement issue can be resolved as well.<P>If it were me, (given what I know, given the skepticism involved) before I would allow him to come home, I would probably see an attorney and map out specific terms and conditions to reconcilliation in regards to money and property. If he wants the marriage, he will acquiesce. <P>I might even consider selling the property and dividing the equity, then buying another place together, with both spouses contributing equal portions so that one spouse doesn't feel that there is an imbalance.<P>I would have separate savings accounts, checking accounts and insist that all household debt be shared equally. No more one sided contributing while the other gets to spend recklessly.<P>The Policy of Honesty and the POJA and no contact rules are an absolute mandatory 'given' and non-negotiable, mandatory counselling for a period of time (like say 6 months) so the WS sees light at the end of the tunnel.<P>The WS absolutely must acknowledge his actions and take responsibility for those actions in order for the Betrayed spouse to redeem their sense of character that has been under attack.<P>Relinguishing your property to see if Poorme's words are sincere seems drastic to me and ultimately leaves you without your equity. If this is the only way to find out what is truly in his heart, I guess I understand, but that's why I suggest you sell the property and divide the equity so there are no finanical loosers. Then there would be nothing to hold him so if he stayed after all that, then you know he meant what he said. Then perhaps you would know what is in his heart. It is such a tough decision because we are all so suspicious and skeptical. I do believe he is crazy about you, in awe of you and probably thinks you are a tough act to follow, which may be part of the problem and why counseling is so paramount.<P>Blah, blah, blah. There I go again, mouthing off.<P>Just my humble opinions, for what they are worth.<P>Catnip =^^=

popeye,<BR>We've tried reconciliation pretty much every which way, among the 7 times.<BR>We've written out the do's & don't do's and signed the paper--every single one was broken.<BR>We've just started spending the nights together, with not much said at all--he drifted back out of the house much the same way.<BR>And pretty much everything in between.<P>This time we agreed we need to see the counselor and promptly didn't for 4 weeks...I think counselor appts are ideal for bringing up the things that are ordinarily fractious. The counselor can keep emotions directed where they need to be for problem solving.<P>I guess my rule of thumb is, if it is important to either of you, it needs to be discussed. POJA would be great, along with honesty, care, protection...best of luck on all of that . <P>Just remember, it isn't going to be "all better" all at once. Step by step, day by day...fall down, get up, etc.

Popeye,<P>Sorry it took so long to post. Very long day yesterday.<P>Okay, I read the responses to your post. I agree 100% w/Catnip. She took the words right outta my mouth, and then some.<P>Is this what YOU want, Popeye? Do you believe Poorme can meet your EN? And you his? I know he wants you and the marriage back but does he know what it will take to get there? Does he know it won't just be a matter of giving up OW? What about his wanting to have a family w/you (baby)? Have you discussed that w/him? I remember in his posts that seemed to be a big deal to him.<P>I'm bringing up these questions because these are things that ultimately brought you and Poorme to where you are now. I know you can work on them in counseling but what is your resolve to what you want after all you two have been thru. You and he have had some time to think about them, do you think they can be worked thru and a compromise is achievable?<P>I said in an earlier post that I believed Poorme and you would continue to have a relationship even after a D. So knowing he is willing to work on the marriage is a huge step, I just wondered if he is aware of what you've learned here and what it will take to be successful. <P>I'll be waiting to hear back. Very interested in your answers re: baby/family.<P>I'll be off-line between 10:00 and 12:30, but back on-line by 1:00P.<P>Talk to you then Popeye.<P>Jo

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Resilient:<BR><B>Is this what YOU want, Popeye? Do you believe Poorme can meet your EN? And you his? I know he wants you and the marriage back but does he know what it will take to get there? Does he know it won't just be a matter of giving up OW? What about his wanting to have a family w/you. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I want the fantasy vision of our lives that I had before, only now I feel *I* have the tools to make that fantasy real and lasting. Him? I am not sure. He's good with promises, but he doesn't come through in a pinch.<P>Can I meet his EN? Not sure again. I think part of that is his taking responsibility for his life. While I agree that we should try to make each other fulfilled, nobody is responsible for anybody. We are all responsible for ourselves, but he doesn't see it that way. It's my job to make him happy, period. If he isn't, it's my fault. Those are big shoes to fill.<P>I don't think he has any idea of what it will take to get there. I think he thinks I am the only one who needs to change because I am messed up and he's fine. That's not a good sign!<P>The issue of children is, miraculously, not a big deal! Since realizing this child is not his, he is not so gung ho about parenthood anymore. As for me, it's not such a scary thought anymore either. I can take parenthood or leave it, but before I was terrified of the child being without an intact family to grow up in like my daughter. I didn't want to put another child through that pain. Now, I accept that life has no guarantees and that if you cut yourself off from experiencing life because of what you fear might happen, you're only cheating yourself. Maybe it will end up that I have another child who has no father. You know what? It's not something I can predict or control, but I would be okay and any child of mine would also be okay. <P>Anyway, I've decided to give him my terms of reconciliation. He can take it or leave it. Right now, I can go either way without pain or regret. It's up to him now. <P>Thanks to everyone for your advice!