I intend on posting this on the Plan A/B board, but this board is getting quite a few more hits, so here goes:<P>I am trying to "transition" into Plan B, and I'm having trouble understanding my wife's actions. She does not like the idea of not talking, and has said that the OM is doing all of these things (letters, phone calls, dinner out, etc.) to sway her his way, and she cannot understand why I am not doing anything to sway her? I've told her I will not get into a "pissing contest", and she doesn't seem to understand. She says she can "see" his love for her, but not mine.<P>I have Plan A'd for 3 - 4 months, and we did go to dinner and talk, and she didn't let up the affair one bit. I have asked her for no contact, and she keeps asking: IS IT OVER THEN? ARE YOU DONE WITH US? DO YOU WANT THE DIVORCE? <P>My answer has been that I want the marriage to work (which I still do), but contact is tearing down my love for her...knowing she is still with him. I just finished telling her that I needed this time to care for myself. She replied, "How can you want our marriage to work, when now you don't even want to talk to me?"<P>Why would a betrayer repeatedly ask these questions? Is it because she's really afraid of losing me? Or could it be that she really wants to be with the OM (who has promised that he would marry her, build her a big house, etc.) and she is waiting for ME to finalize the divorce (I filed back in January, out of emotions).<P>I guess none of you really know the answer to these questions, but maybe you can provide some perspective from your own experiences.<P>Boy am I confused! I know and believe in the Harley priciples, and I wonder if this transition is continuing to cause LoveBusters, and leave her with an image of me being a "bad guy"? <P>Prayers for us all!<P>MJ

In my experience who really knows what the OP is thinking since they rarely tell the truth.I planned A for several months,then H moved out and I was on plan B.H refuses to use a go between to talk to me.So there is absolutely no conversation at all.He contacts the kids by phone and makes arrangements to see them independently of me.H had a internet affair ,and is currently living with OW.H is angry that he has to have a go between to talk to me,therefore he will never use this person to contact me.I think plan B is harder,instead of pain now there is greving.It seems as tho there is still some hope in your case.I think plan A is better if you can do it.soon2bx

It is very tough to understand the betrayer's mind set.... It does seem like your wife likes it on the fence.... having both of you meet her needs.<P>I think that is the point of plan A....to really try to meet her most imp. emotional needs.... From what I can tell in the book SAA and through talking with S.Harley...there is a limit to plan A...<P>But for everyone it is different.....because every situation is different...every betrayer and betrayed is different.<P>In plan A...you really set the groundwork for plan B... You should really have given her something to miss..something to think about. There should be no LB's (whatever they are to her....) <P>Plan B is for you....to grow, and to protect what is left of your love for your wife.<P>I think that the other relationship is then left standing on it's own. <P>When you do plan B, I don't believe that you should end up arguing with your wife about why you are doing it. I think you can simply leave it at.....I love you and am willing to work on our marraige, but do not feel that we can even begin while the other relationship is going on..... ADd that she must know how much this is hurting you...(although I think in their fog they may not see it yet)<P>Plan B is not for wimps...(I think NSR told me that) It is very difficult, esp when kids are involved. I'm actually in plan B..My H is really angry that I am not talking to him right now. <P>But that's because he is in such a fog he never remembers one day to the next what he says......In Marr, counseling he said everything I said bugs him... The counselor said that he would have to do something about that, not me... My H and I talk just fine...as long as you don't bring up the intense EA he is having with his coworker. <P>He refuses...even though his counselor and the Mcounselor told him we couldn't begin any work while that relationhip is going on.<P>He complained to his mom that I was not talking to him....and she told him "what do you expect, you threw her out like an old shoe"......and he doesn't get that either. Which I can tell you is really unusual for my H....<P>So I guess for me....plan B is a LB!!!! But I had to do it for me... I did lose it shortly after doing plan B....he kept attempting to lure me back with e-mails etc. after saying cruel things to me for the past 6 months..... So I didn't start out in plan B on a great footing, but oh well.....i'm not perfect!!!<P>Did you write the plan b letter??? Have you identified the EN's that the OM is filling???? Does she say she wants to work on the marraige?????<P>

soontobx - thanks for the reply. Anger is NOT what I expected in going to Plan B...<P>Tootrusting...I did write and send the Plan B letter over 2 weeks ago. It was followed by another break-up with OM, which we then went on a Retrouvaille weekend last weekend. The Monday we got back, it was ON again with OM. The last straw...time to protect myself.<P>My wife has a constant need to be validated (one that I failed to meet given the new responsibility of starting a family). The OM writes her love letters, talks to her on the phone constantly, does all the things people do in the early stages of romance. The problem is my wife want our marriage to ALWAYS feel like the early stage of romance.<P>I am willing to work to restore intimacy, but she has never let me back in to try...HE is always in the way.<P>She has told me point blank that she feels like our marriage can work...but she's afraid of losing him...her "one true love". She does admit that I was her true love, for 6 years (and before 2 kids)...but that doesn't seem to count anymore. She also told me that she KNOWS she cannot ever stop contacting him. Makes me feel real safe. She says that if we were to try, we'd have to pack everything and move far away. <P>Anyway, my choices were between Plan B or divorce. Plan B looked better than divorce...especially since I'm sitting here at home with an empty bedroom where my kids are SUPPOSED to be sleeping. I cannot bear to think of living the rest of my life not being able to see them every day. She is ripping my heart out, and doesn't even really seem to care.<P>All I can do is pray for strength, and pray that Plan B works better than Plan A.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Yes, I know how painful it feels to have your heart ripped out. When I told my H to stop the relationship with OP he said "put a knife through my heart"...... You'd think he'd feel this way about his kids....not a loony coworker he has never slept with.<P><BR>Anyway....It sounds like your wife knows she loves you...have you given her any of the info on the addicive quality of an affair...If not...not to the q&a section here and copy off the questions and answers to The Unfaithful Wife....The Unfaithful Husband!!!!<P>Harley does say in Plan B to move far away from the lover if the WS will not give him/her up......<P>Can you move???? I'm going to move....Unfortunately my three kids are in school....one starting K, one moving to middle school..I have a large house full of furniture....no family to help me....and I have been a SAHM.....so it is going to take me awhile to get it together!!!!<P>At least you have a great understanding of what needs she is having met....it is a great starting place for plan A....<P>If you are already in planB...I would not talk to her...just keep making your plans!!! until she ends the relationship. How do you tranfer the kids???? You are not supposed to see her at all...which is hard I know...My kids go into the garage and wait for thier dad!!!! or I send them outside....and he just drops them off and they walk in!!!! He and I haave no contact...he is really mad at me for it!!!

Tootrusting - I have put materials out where my wife could read them, but she has NO interest in actively trying to understand anything that is going on. She stays in her heart, and rarely goes into her head.<P>During the week it is easy not to see her. One party drops the kids off, the other picks them up. Weekends are a little tricky, and we need to work out the details to limit contact. This morning she called to tell me that she "really loves me"...but she does this every time she feels me moving away from her.<P>About moving...there was a point where I was ready to drop everything (house, job, closeness to family) in order to move to get her away from OM. I have since softened on that idea...it seems like running from the problem. If we can't solve this problem here, what's to keep it from happening anywhere else in the United States? Moving might get her IN to withdrawl, but I'm starting to doubt if she could ever make it OUT of withdrawl.