Not sure if it is good or bad that I am back posting here. But this place has become to me much like an meeting place similar to AA. And believe me...I have no other place to go to these days. My wife has no interest in coming here at all. In fact, she doesn’t know I am coming here myself....and I would hate for her to make the demand that I stop. Not sure that I could do that....as it is a place for me to vent.<P>I saw the new Mel Gibson release yesterday, “The Patriot”. It was a good movie that seem to have a message in it for me. Mel plays a guy who’s emotions sometimes ‘rule’ him and get the best of him. (I can really relate to this guy). On several occasions, we see where he is reminded by his son, a friend, and his ‘late-wife’ to “stay the course”.<P>When he is ready to quit in one scene....his emotions in control of his decision making process, he is once again reminded......to “stay the course”. And with that....he comes back to inspire a rousing defeat of the British Army.<P>That thought “stay the course” has been going over and over in my mind all day. Some one posted to me earlier how I needed to decide where I want to go...and then start making the small steps in that direction. In a sense....I heard them telling me to “stay the course”. <P>Deciding....what I really want and where I want to go...seems to be the fundamental key here. Please allow me to ‘think aloud’ here in words. I have a series of choices to make. Once I have locked in on the one that I really want, and is the most attainable, then that is the goal I must pursue.<P>At this point in time, my deepest longing...is for something that I realize...cannot come to pass...and be good...which is to just “wake up” some morning...and starting a new life afresh with this friend. I suppose this is what you could call a ‘dream’ or ‘fantasy’. To those who say....“follow your dreams”....this one would end up a nightmare if I did so. SO...I realize this one is an unrealistic goal to even consider, regardless of where it is on my ‘deepest desire list”.<P>The next choice, and one that seems to be the logical choice....is to work in the direction of restoring my marriage....focusing on my wife...on us...applying these principals here...and working towards falling in love again. This would seem to be an attainable goal. It seems to be the logical one. It really, for all practical purposes...is the ‘course’ I must choose and ‘stay to’. And this is the course I have chosen!<P>The other options are....just leaving my wife...with or without the other woman....and causing much pain and havoc.<P>I also realize that once a goal has been chosen, a plan must be laid...and then diligently followed. This is basic life lessons 101. Choosing the goal and laying the plans...really is not the hard part. Rolling up the sleeves, and putting one foot in front of the other, minute after minute, hour after hour, day after day, week after week, and so on....seems to be the mountainous task before me. <P>And here is where I reeeeeaaaalllllllyyyy need some help. I can see all this with my mind...the logic and reason makes sense...and I can actually get encouraged by having an attainable goal and plan to pursue. Then an hour goes by....and I am swamped by a tidal wave of emotions and feelings...and desires....to just reach out, pick up a phone, or email this friend....and pour all my hurt and longings into her tired and hurting heart. I mean...we are talking a tidal wave here. It is in those moments....(and they are numerous throughout the day)....that all logic and reason seem so distant and useless to me. It is in these moments...when I am so vulnerable. <P>I then realize that there is another choice that lies before me...which is to continue living in the deception and torment by trying to keep this relationship alive the way it has been for the past 6 months. My heart screams that it is better than not hearing from her at all. And I just start weeping...and have to go for walks to get away from my wife so she doesn’t see me like this. <P>I really want to be healed and made whole again. But this heart of mine is messing with me really bad. It and my mind are not getting along at all these days. My mind keeps screaming: “Stay the course” and my heart yells back at it: “Why....I can’t make it....I’m dying...you don’t understand”....etc.<P>I do fine....in those moments when my heart is ‘asleep’. The goal and plan seem so clear. How....someone tell me...do I tame this heart of mine?<P>Could this be one of those lonely valleys of fire I hear about...where each individual must go it alone? Is this the place where character and integrity are forged and molded? Is this the place where I discover what I am all about? If so.....I fear...this place. I’m not sure I will like what I sense is inside of me.<P>If I stay here.....I will surely....”die”. I must move forward...and ....’stay the course’. I’m sure there will be suffering in untold measure. But it seems that the logic and lesson of life would tell me that in the end, it will all be worth it. <P>I wish I were already there.....<P>But....I will never get there....if I don’t....’stay the course’.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Could this be one of those lonely valleys of fire I hear about...where each individual must go it alone? Is this the place where character and integrity are forged and molded? Is this the place where I discover what I am all about? If so.....I fear...this place. I’m not sure I will like what I sense is inside of me.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes to almost all of this except you are not alone. Aside from having the help of all the great folks here on MB, you have God with you. He will not abandon you. He is in the valley with you. You are his child. <P>I too am in this valley. I too am afraid of what I will find inside. But I have a great need to see it anyway. Kinda like peeking through your fingers at a scary part of a movie. You're afraid to look, but you HAVE to look if you are ever to leave the valley.<P>God has already seen what is inside you. He loves you anyway. Since you are God's child, what is in there can't be all that bad. Once you see what's inside of you - and that includes all the GOOD stuff that's there - you will find your way out of the valley.<P>Just remember, you are not alone. God is right there with you. (This is something I have just come to realize.)<P>

No Mas -<P>As a WS, I had to respond to your message. I know I'm a new member - junior - I think they call it, but I've learned a lot on these boards.<P>First, I don't think this is something you have to go through alone. Think back to when you got married . . .When I took my marriage vows, my H and I promised to take each other in good times and in bad. Well, welcome to the bad times. I don't know a lot about your particular situation, sounds like you've been on the fence for a while trying to decide what to do. <P>For whatever reasons you may have, it sounds like you want to work things out with your wife. So, if you're going to try and work things out, you need to give her an opportunity to help you. Why do you think she wouldn't like for you to be here? Sounds like you're trying to get advice that may help you/her and your marriage.<P>I guess the other thing I want to say, is that I know how difficult it is to stay focused on your goal, but it takes baby steps. Whenever I got the urge to contact the OM, I came here and read a little bit, I went for a walk, I got a soda, I went to the mall, I talked to my husband . . .and that's where the biggest support has come from. I did everything I could to take my mind off of the OM. I never really stopped thinking about him, but at least I was physically away from any means of contacting him.<P>I went through my email and deleted any and all messages that I had from him. I had even saved a voice message from him - so that I could "still hear his voice." Deleted it . . . I threw out his phone numbers - this was all very difficult, but I made the decision to do it - to break contact.<P>Once I sent the no contact letter - it helped, but didn't stop me from wanting to be with this person. And for two months, I had no contact with the OM. I literally took it hour by hour, day by day, week by week. The OM contacted me two months to the day that I sent the no contact letter. It stirred up all of those feelings again. I even emailed him a couple of times. It was definitely a set back, but I never saw him, gave no indication that I would ever see him. And then I started the hour by hour, day by day thing, and now I'm up to two weeks with out contact.<P>And I feel good, I think my feelings are definitely beginning to fade. Before I got married, I was involved with someone for three years. A long time has passed since I was with that other person, but I still think about him. I don't feel like I'm going to leave my H to be with him, my love for him has faded.<P>When you don't devote the time a relationship, I think it eventually dies. Maybe that's why we're in the situations that we are, we neglected or felt neglected in our marriages. Whatever the causes, it does take effort to keep a relationahip alive, you choose to do that. You can choose to keep your marriage alive, you may even discover that it can be better than you ever dreamed. <P>Again, I don't know the particulars of your situation, but you have made a courageous decision (or so it sounds like you've made a courageous decision), but it's not going to be easy. You and your wife are equal partners and you need to help each other through this. I really wish you the best. You can get through this, and it may just make you (and you wife) a better person.<BR>Take care.<P>You've got to

NoMas,<BR>I think you just about nailed it.<P>If there is any consolation, I don't think there are many of us that can look in the mirror closely and honestly and like everything we see. And we are all given fires and valleys to walk through.<P>Hey, God promises he won't give us more than we can stand...so He must think you are pretty strong...and He is never wrong...right <P>NoMas, give this some thought. Could it be this is what your wife is getting at when she says this is YOUR problem? Maybe she has seen this before you have.<P>Nobody can give you integrity or character or stamina so cruel as it may sound, some journeys are so intensly personal that they simply can not be shared. This may be one of them for you.<P>The up side of this is, if you are not dependent on another human to bring you through the valley, then you just need to rely on yourself...and your faith, of course. Wouldn't it be aweful if we were so dependent on another that we couldn't make it on our own? Then we really couldn't make any decisions or have any convictions of our own.<P>Support is wonderful...and I hope your wife and other appropriate people will be there for you. BUT...wouldn't you rather take ownership of your own recovery and see any support as a gift rather than a necessity? Wouldn't that be empowering that everything you need is between you and God and He will take care of working in the lives of others?<P>Give it some thought.<P><p>[This message has been edited by FaithHopeLove (edited July 05, 2000).]

Hey NoMas,<P>I've been away for a while, and logged on late last night and was just blown away. You did it! The hardest thing and you did it! May I ask you, do you feel any relief at all now? Did telling your wife the truth relieve your suffering at all? I sure hope so. My H had almost instant relief once he admitted his affair to me, and no he is not a happy camper now, but some of the load has been lifted off his shoulders, Thank God.<P>You don't need to fear the course you are on, because it is now a true and good course. You've done the worst...you've done it! Now the work starts. I read that you'll be going to a retreat next week. Great plan. I'll bet a little time away and some soul searching will help you tremendously. I just spent several days at my moms very remote cabin, and it cleared my head a lot. Sometimes we just need a little space.<P>NoMas, take care of your wife. That is your job now. She is in so much pain. You two can heal together if you just give her the chance. Let her go through the emotions she must go through. Get outside of yourself a bit, and your pain, and focus on her. By helping her you can help yourself. That is what we betrayed here try to do. Hold her up. It's obvious she loves you, or she'd be out of there by now. She loves you NoMas. And she, unlike OW, loves you despite all of your faults and weaknesses. Please take care of her. <P>And hey, thanks for ruining the movie for me...now I guess I don't need to spend the six bucks, as I know the end...LOL LOL.<P>Hang in there bud...I can see the changes in your words already. <P>allison

Hey Allison...<BR>Your U.S. History books would have told you how the movie ends! We won the war! :-)<P>Go see it anyway....it was good....little gory, but good.<P>Yea...there was some relief. She happen to confront me with a question about email accounts...and I just knew then, it was time to stop the lies...and lay it on the table. There was a moment of "relief" I suppose. But the next stage of discomforting pain and withdrawl and working things out is what lies ahead right now. My wife is still in shock and just kind of numb still. This week away should be interesting to say the least, for both of us. Lots of soul searching to take place. <BR>Thank you for the encouragement though.

Hi Nomas,<P>I have followed your story because it is similar to mine and you share some of the same feelings that I have.<P>I am the betrayer. I also work with the OP. We ended our affair and tried the No Contact. Each time, it was heart wrenching and we would make some kind of contact. There was a point that I thought "well, maybe just talking to him and being his friend will not hurt". I wanted to hang on to some kind of relationship no matter what it was. With him in my life I was happier. ITHOUGHT!!!! But actually I was not. To try to secretly talk to an affair partner is damaging to your marriage.<P>I found that I could NOT do it. Affairs do not work. There is no way to stay married and try and keep this relationship too. It just will not work. You will never have the kind of marriage you won't to have.<P>I now have resigned my job because I realize that it is not possible to get better while I continue to see him every day. I have one more week to go.<P>Believe me, it does get better. You are just in the worst part of it all now...with your wife just finding out....but I promise, it will get better.<P>Hang in there!!!!

NoMas,<P><B> One learns THE MOST from one's mistakes. Dare I say, you will NEVER make this mistake again. However, you need to LEARN from this mistake, learn all you can about YOURSELF and your SPOUSE. </B><P>What you may learn about yourself is that you have a weakness, and your marriage has a weakness. Be sure to correctly find the weakness, it may not be what you think. Not the end of the world, but the realization that each and both of you are human. To be human is to err.<P>After my PA, I learned I have a weakness, and what I learned was actually more to when the EA feelings began to emerge again, and that happened at critical age points and life points for me. Age 30 and 40. At turns of a decade, I am vulnerable as I realize that I am older, and not as physically competitive as I would like to be. I also have a socially defective upbringing which hampers me and contributes tremendously to my not being able to understand women, particularly, manipulative women.<P>When stress from the arrival of additional children hits, I am vulnerable, PA happened around first born, and tendencies around second born.<P>I also learned that if I do not communicate my needs appropriately, resentment and anger builds up. But it is within myself, and noone else. Resentment management is crucial.<P>I also learned from where I came, in other words, who I am is from my family of origin.<BR>I now understand my personality very well, as well as my STBX personality much better. <A HREF="http://www.personalitytype.com" TARGET=_blank>www.personalitytype.com</A> <P>Examine that, and you will find alot of reasons why you are the person you are. Yes, I have a tendency to be a conflict avoider on interpersonal topics, but not on other topics. Most everything else is dead on my type.<P>NaMas,<P>this is a great and wonderful experience, totally life enriching, learn from it and use it in your daily life. After many years you may forget, but try not to.<P>take care and good luck,<P>thl