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Could I ask a question? I hope none of you take offense to this because I really don’t mean to be offensive but...<P>I was wondering why so many ws think that their spouses don’t deserve the ‘love’ and devotion and PASSION that they are getting from their affair partners.<P>I really don’t get it. For example WhoDat – you mentioned that you had a ‘comfortable’ love with your wife, and that while the person that you had an affair with was not the person you thought her to be, the feelings themselves you had were real. So one of my questions is this – why should your wife have to live without those feelings?<P>Why should she have to settle for a comfortable love?<P>Please don’t get me wrong I know marriage isn’t all passion and ‘magic’ – but comfortable? That doesn’t sound so great for all the time either.<P>The last thing I would ever want would be for a man to stay with me because it was the right thing to do and that sounds like a ‘comfortable’ love to me. I swear I would rather be alone for the rest of my life than to have to be with someone who is always going to want something I can’t give him<P>Or how about NoMas – doesn’t your wife deserve a man who wants her like you seem to want and ‘long for’ this other woman?<P>I’m not trying to pick on you really, but your attitude toward your wife is just sad. Why should she try harder with you? You don’t seem to want to try with her, I know you’ll say I’m wrong and that you are trying but then you’ll just go off again on how much you want ‘long for’ ‘hope for’ this true magic lovely wonderful person you wish you could spend your life with. Doesn’t your wife deserve to have someone who feels that way about her?<P>I’m sorry, that sounded really rude. Again I don’t want to pick on you but I’ve just been lurking here for a while and your posts just make me cry sometimes. I’m sure you’re a good person and again if I offended anyone I’m sorry but I just wanted to get some stuff off my chest.<P>Anyway I should stop now since I am just rambling<BR>
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Bookworm:<P>Good Question. Hope they reply.<P><BR>I'll be back when the bees stop buzzing from the hornet's nest you've shaken.<P> ![[Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]](http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/shocked.gif) <P>I certainly can't answer this question.<P>Buffy<BR>
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Bookworm,<P>Just for your info, NoMas is on a minister's retreat for the next 8 days. You may want to try bringing this post back up to the top then. He really should see this.<P>You've said in a very sweet way a point I've been trying to get across. I made some people upset in the gangbuster way I did it and for that I feel bad. Now no one is posting in NoMas' thread when he was actually getting alot of responses that contradicted a belief that needed contradicting--before I butted in. ![[Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]](http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/frown.gif) <P>But, hey, sparring with me got his mind off the OW for at least a little while, didn't it?! ![[Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]](http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif) <p>[This message has been edited by Leilana (edited July 08, 2000).]
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I had a 1.5 year EA. There has been no contact for 3 months and I'm still feeling the effects of withdrawal. (much less than earlier, though)<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>I was wondering why so many ws think that their spouses don’t deserve the ‘love’ and devotion and PASSION that they are getting from their affair partners.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I do believe that my H deserves all that. I'm not sure I can give it to him. I'm giving this whole thing time to find that out. If I can't give it to him, then I believe it would be best for both of us to move on. <P>There is nothing wrong with comfortable. It's just that sometimes 'comfortable' is another way of saying 'stagnant'. If being comfortable allows you and your spouse (and the two of you together) the ability to grow, it's fine. There will be times of great love and passion in there as well. It's the stagnation that is the deathnell of passion.<P>And it's not a matter of deciding that your spouse deserves it. I know my H deserves it. I just can't give him what I don't have. And to try to give that to him anyway, when I don't feel it to be true, feels like a lie. So I am trying to be as honest as possilbe and at the same time allow the together time and activities that can let it happen.<p>[This message has been edited by TruthSeeker (edited July 08, 2000).]
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Bookworm....<BR>Had a chance to log on from a local library here...before getting settled in for my retreat. You ask a fair question.<P>My wife IS deserving of all my love and passion and devotion. No question!!!! <P>I think Harley just explains it so well how these things happen. Somewhere deep inside, the 'wires got crossed'. It is not suppose to be this way. But it happened. Harley describes these feelings of 'being in love' as one of the most powerful and addictive feelings a human can fall into. (Not more powerful than God, of course) <P>You don't get into this place...'overnight' and you don't get set 'free' overnight either. I don't plan of living the rest of my life just 'enduring' a marriage that grew 'stale'. I am working towards getting my heart re-aligned...some priorities set back in place...allowing God back in to be in charge, and then reconnecting with my wife. I am persuaded that I can have all this love and passion and devotion for my wife again. If I didn't, I would have given up and just gone with my heart. I am seeking to find my way home again. I will find it. <P>I believe that God will take this horrible nightmare...and use it for His good. <P>On the plane ride here...I was thinking how I have yet to feel fully...the depth of pain that I have caused my wife. I dread that moment. I know it is excruciating. I saw it as like being in an "out-of-body" experience. My 'soul' has been hovering outside of my body watching me go down this dark path. I have seen the mess I have made. I sense that in a short time, I am going be be 'revived' and 'come back'. At that moment,I believe I will see what I have done and feel what pain I have caused my wife. I think then, true healing will begin. I will be focused on what I have done to her, and will endeavor to work dilligently for her healing as well as mine...and "ours". <P>Hope this answers your question.
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I hope I don't get off track from your original question, Bookworm, but couldn't this question really be asked of anyone in a relationship? <P>"Why would any partner/spouse think that their spouse doesn't deserve love, devotion and passion"? <P>A relationship takes two people and "comfortable" love (or maybe it is indifference) can be due to one or both people in the relationship. It is my hope and desire to experience love, devotion and passion in my marriage (and I am a WS), but often I feel that same desire isn't matched by my spouse. So, I have the same question, but seem to be on the "other side". I have many "why" questions also - I know what I desire and am capable of, but could it be some people just don't desire that kind of relationship so strongly? (I know this is a little different than what you asked, but your question brings out my frustration from my end also). <P>I read here about how some marriages have become better than ever, more than either spouse imagined possible, so that is what I am reaching for also as I/we try to rebuild. Maybe it will look much different than I imagined, so I am trying to stay very open to that. <P>NoMas, it is good to hear your confidence and persuasion of what you believe can exist in your marriage. I pray you will have a productive week, a freeing from some of your torment, refreshment, a new vision for your life and your marriage. I also pray your wife will be comforted in her hurt, will begin to reach out to God and others and will have an equal desire and vision to build an intimate, fulfilling marriage with you. God be with you this week!<p>[This message has been edited by siftedlikewheat (edited July 08, 2000).]
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Bookworm...yes, indeed, a very good question. One I have been asking myself as of late. <P>NoMas made some wonderful observations in that though we never expected to find ourselves in this place with OP, we are and so all the questions, the why this person, why now remain. Stepping outside ourselves, it felt like the greatest joy ever known. It makes no sense, however, until we pull away the veil and see it for what it was. <P>I do believe my husband deserves this passion, love and devotion more than anyone on the face of this earth. He just doesn't express a need to the depths at which I share in it. But in my betrayal, I learned that I am capable of feeling it....and that was an incredible breakthrough for me. Now I need to harnass it and redirect toward my husband. <P>Some of just learn these lessons the hard way. I come from the school of hard knocks...nothing to be proud of, for sure! <P>NoMas....you do sound so much more at peace now. Praying God's peace upon your heart as you allow Him to begin to heal your marriage. He's guiding many of us back to our spouses. <P>"The race is not to the swift or the battle to the strong..." Ecclesiastes 9:11<P>"Let us throw off everything that hinders and sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked before us." Heb. 12:1<P><BR>
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Just saw this, and I'll have to get to it tomorrow. The answer is quite easy, though... just look around at the articles on this website for starters.<P>I'll try tomorrow...<P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die
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Once upon a time, there were two people who met each other at a [ party | nightclub | library | bookstore | grocery store | other ]. They immediately [ hit it off | hated one another | thought "what a jerk" | thought "there's someone I'd like to get to know" ]. After a time, they realized they [ really liked one another | had incredible sexual chemistry | really liked one another and had incredible sexual chemistry ], and they saw each other more and more often. They became an exclusive "item" and eventually decided they needed to make a formal and lasting commitment to one another. They got married.<P>They had a [ beautiful honeymoon | crappy honeymoon ] and began their "happily ever after" time together. As their lives together went on, reality made their relationship more [ complicated | difficult | challenging | loving ] and some of the hardships they endured together [ drove them ever closer together | drove them ever farther apart ]. As a result, [ they both made a concerted effort to bring excitement into their marriage | they drifted into a comfortable existence in the same house ].<P>Eventually, [ they found themselves more in love than ever | one of them found another person to "care" about | both of them found others ]. This resulted in [ a truly "happily ever after" marriage | a nightmare for both of them, their children and their families ]<P><B>YOUR CHOICE.</B><P>Bottom line: ONCE you loved the person you are legally committed to enough to swear to love honor and cherish him or her, for BETTER or for WORSE, until your dying day. If you loved that person enough before, what is to prevent you from loving that person again? <B>Love is a choice</B> - IT IS AN ACTION - YOU <B>DO</B> it ... it doesn't "happen" to you! <P>I'm sorry - I don't intend to be inflammatory or rude to anyone here - but I cannot handle the attitude that "truth" is supposed to "come to you" - no, Truthseeker, I am not singling you out here - you have only put into clearer words what so many of the withdrawing WS's are saying... you are WAITING for love to "happen" to you again! That's not how it works!<P>In the beginning, you made an effort to be what it was you wanted your mate to love... you put your best foot forward and WORKED at having a successful relationship with them... Then, life intervened and you were in a rut, your spouse seemed oblivious, or things seemed too "comfortable" or "stagnant" - and along came this OP who "spiced things up" and ... what a mess it created!<P>Now, you want life to solve itself - love to make itself known or felt - your tortured, betrayed spouse to make you "feel that spark" - and I have to ask you: How can we do that when you have put up that WALL??? The only way you can find truth or love or the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is if you GET UP AND WORK FOR IT!!! It's not gonna just "happen" to you - you have to practice it!<P>Love is a verb. An action verb. When I say "I love you" it is something I am DOING ... it isn't just something I lay back and "get."<P>NoMas, it troubles me to see the order in which you have placed your priorities: "I am working towards getting my heart re-aligned...some priorities set back in place...allowing God back in to be in charge, and then reconnecting with my wife." This may sound strange, but I believe that reconnecting with your wife <B>must be your first priority!</B> ... open your heart and your life back up to your wife and your marriage, and you will find that God is still there - He was just waiting for you to figure it out - He gave you all the tools you needed, you just closed your eyes to them. Open your eyes, NoMas ... you've made the choice, now take ACTION! It's not gonna happen on its own...<P>I hope I haven't insulted anyone here - I know I am seeing things through the eyes of the betrayed. But I am also speaking from the experience of "wondering" if "this is all there is" in my marriage ... and MAKING THE CHOICE to stay in it - I didn't have the tools or the knowledge at that point to bring the excitement back into it, but I STAYED and I LOVED actively. It hurts all the more to know that my husband couldn't make that same choice. And it kills me to see so many intelligent human beings torture themselves with the "waiting" to "reconnect" or for the love "feeling" to "come back." Waiting is NOT the answer. Doing is the answer - acting as if you are in love with your spouse will make it happen.<P>Once again ... I have climbed up on the soap box and ranted when I intended only to whisper a couple of words ... I guess I'm done now.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR>I can see clearly now,<BR>the rain is gone ...
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does nomas 's OP post on these boards?<BR>
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azure, <P>It is my understanding that NoMas MET his OP on these boards ... and that hurts me and all of us very very much - in the one place we should be insulated from the painful clutches of infidelity - the one place where all of us should completely understand how EASY it is to fall into that trap ... in our save HAVEN ... an affair began.<P>It is truly sad.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR>I can see clearly now,<BR>the rain is gone ...
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First off, let me say I never intended to start posting again. In fact, the only real reason I still load this board is to find out how Chris is doing, and how his saga will conclude. I guess I should just ask him to email me. But I saw the query to betrayers, looked, and couldn't let the "it's NOT a fantasy… it's not it's not it's not!" posts go unanswered. But since I haven't kept up on much over the last 8 months or so, forgive me if I don't know the particulars of the stories. I had read some stuff by NoMas, but had long ago reached the conclusion that he was in just as much of a fog as I was previously. I had tried to talk to people in that fog over the last two years, to no avail. As I said, it's an experience that has to be lived.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Why should she have to settle for a comfortable love?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I answered this question a few times before, and I really wish I could remember what that answer was. Since I was going through the rediscovery at the time, I'm sure my answer was a lot more eloquent.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Please don’t get me wrong I know marriage isn’t all passion and ‘magic’ – but comfortable? That doesn’t sound so great for all the time either.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I think that's a lot closer, and I think terri answered it pretty well… a few turns and things turn out differently. It's all in the perceptions and how you choose to react to what is going on.<P>Five years ago, my W and I were "comfortable." We were fairly happy, nothing exciting, but we existed. We were in what I call "coast mode." Just felt everything was OK, and everything always would be. We didn't KNOW any better, didn't know that you really had to work. There's not a LOT of work required, but we weren't doing any. We existed, and we loved each other, but there was really no passion.<P>One of the things I learned in the aftermath of my affair was the different <I>kinds</I> of love. The initial, eros love, the one full of excitement and passion, cannot last. At least not in that form. You can have passion as well, but that kind of initial infatuation MUST either evolve into a more mature, trusting love, or it must end. That process generally takes about six months (I wish I could remember who wrote that; I'm sure someone will chime in with this, but I read about 20 relationship books in trying to recover my marriage, and they all sort of jumble together after two years). My affair followed that timeline, as well as the ones outlined by Dr Harley, almost to the letter.<P>I guess I'm not answering very well. A comfortable, boring love? Yes, not only does my W deserve better, but I do as well. That's what we had, and it lead to the inevitable. We're still in counseling, and we all three agree… the writing was on the wall. We were gonna coast until one of us crashed. I was the last person on earth EITHER of us thought would do something like this, and now we know it can happen to anyone. Our job now is to have so good a life together that not only does it not happen, but that we never become "lost" enough to make it even a possibility.<P>In the aftermath, we have learned HOW to love. Are we comfortable? You bet… but not in a boring way. We're comfortable in the way two people can be only after they have created a life together. Our conversation has increased a thousandfold, and most importantly, <I>we can now go to each other with our concerns.</I> We have the ability to steer the ship when it now begins to veer off course, instead of sitting smugly in coast mode while our ship crashes into the rocks.<P>I consider THIS type of "comfortable" love a trade up… not settling. We're genuinely happy with each other now… not just "not unhappy." And to me, that level of comfort is the greatest happiness of all, and something I could NEVER have even aspired to with my OW. I'm happy, and I <B>TRULY</B> love my W. And I know she truly loves me as well. ![[Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]](http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif) <P><BR>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die<p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited July 10, 2000).]
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WhoDat:<BR>Beautifully said! Thank you. Still in the process of getting "there" but am happy for any encouragement. <BR>
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Maybe, as a betrayed spouse, I just don't want to "hear" how in love, committed, head over heals in love the WS is with the OP. And, while I understand the need to vent these feelings, why does it seem to me that the WS is simply sitting back and waiting for love to return to them? <P>I remember when I first came to this site reading a post that told the BS that the first thing they need to do is to QUIT referring to the OP as their "LOVER, THE ONE, MY SOULMATE"...the only person that DESERVES these titles is the spouse. BTW, didn't all WS at one time refer to their spouse as their soulmate???? <P>Yes, I'm prepared for the answer, "but, I didn't realize what a "true" soulmate was until I met the OP...." I believe the WS creates the soulmate illusion. I say quit viewing the OP in such a positive light and your spouse in such a negative light. My god, if I spent all my time comparing my unfaithful husband to my neighbor's seemingly "perfect" husband, before long I'd probably be sleeping with my neighbor's H....why? because I would have spent a great deal of time convincing myself/creating the "illusion" of what perfect was and how I deserved it. <P>WSs--Tell yourselves that you deserve a perfect marriage. Quit finding faults with your spouse...chances are, your spouse has a "laundry list" of faults on you. It amazes me that the WS sees themselves in such a positive light--"I deserved this" "I was tired of not getting what I needed" "I tried at home but wasn't getting anywhere". My H whined that I was boring, that I never wanted to do anything, that I was always too busy for him......BUT, I would have described him as never helping out, always putting his golf or tennis buddies before his family, expecting dinner on the table/clean clothes in the drawers without ever having to offer up a THANK YOU or a hug. See--it was BOTH of us not meeting each other needs. It's not just one sided. In other words, 9 times out of 10 I would bet that both the BS and WS had at least some negative thoughts/views of their spouse...my needs, as the BS, were also going unmet....my H was not perfect, nor was I. <P>NO ONE IS PERFECT. EVERY RELATIONSHIP MUST BE FED/NOURISHED/WATERED TO GROW. I say get the illusion of the "perfect" OP out of your head and start envisioning the "perfect" marriage. And, please don't tell me it's too difficult. The WS can choose to be faithful in their thoughts and actions. And, while I agree that the BS's actions towards WS can help/hinder WS progress, I stand by my opinion that the WS must FIRST want to HONESTLY TRY before any "good actions" from the BS are "valued" by the WS. <P>One more *delicate* request: Please don't say "it just happened"..... The WS did PURSUE the relationship...with every smile, kind word, encouraging/wishful thought, e-mail, phone call, luncheon, business trip, card, note, kiss, hug, compliment, whisper, caress, sexual encounter, every lie. It takes LOTS OF PLANNING, LOTS OF THOUGHT to pull off what some WS's like to say "just happened."<P>And, for those WSs who will still persist that I am mistaking, that your spouses are mistaking, and that you and your OP have the "real thing", than do your spouses a favor and set them free. Free to find their "soul mate", their "one and only", their "everything". They DESERVE this from someone else if you don't "believe" that you can give it to them.<P>And, if you (WS) do "believe", if you're able to acknowledge that your spouse does deserve all that you can give, than start giving it. This is PART OF YOU MEETING YOUR SPOUSES ENs. Don't wait until you "feel" it again....don't tell us, the BS, that you will say "I love you" when you're able to--when the feelings return--tell it to us NOW, when WE NEED TO HEAR IT.<P>I could strangle my H for every time he's said to me, "But Marie, I don't want to say it unless I mean it".....AAARRGH! Remember, this is not just about what the WS NEEDS-----this is about what BOTH PARTNERS NEED (Note: I'm referring to couples in RECOVERY). And, if your betrayed spouse states that they need to hear I LOVE YOU than for goodness sakes SAY IT--DO IT FOR THEM!!!!....even if it is pretending....I honestly don't care if my H doesn't mean it, I just NEED to hear it.....sometimes, it's the only thing that makes me want to STAY, to even TRY. IT'S CALLED HOPE.<P>Peace, ~Marie<BR><p>[This message has been edited by ohmy_marie (edited July 18, 2000).]
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terri,<P>I'm sorry, ut I still disagree with some of what you said. I don't think love can be forced.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>you made an effort to be what it was you wanted your mate to love<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, I put aside who I am as a person and became someone else. I'm not willing to do that anymore.<P>Does this mean I'm not taking action to improve my marriage and find out if i can feel that love and passion for my H? No. Re-read what I wrote. I said that we are making time and doing activities that will alllow it to happen. I don't believe I can just DECIDE "I'm going to be in love with my H today." Those feelings take time to grow, and I'm doing the things that need to be done that will allow them to grow if they ever will. Something I'm still not convinced of. I'm not convinced they won't, either, or else I wouldn't even be trying.<P>marie,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>don't tell us, the BS, that you will say "I love you" when you're able to--when the feelings return--tell it to us NOW, when WE NEED TO HEAR IT.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So what you're saying is that you'd rather hear a lie? Now, who's living in a fantasy land? To tell someone "I love you" when I don't is to tell a lie. I, for one, won't do it! I wouldn't want someone to do it to me!<P>I WILL NOT LIVE A LIE!<BR>
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TruthSeeker:<BR>So what you're saying is that you'd rather hear a lie? Now, who's living in a fantasy land? To tell someone "I love you" when I don't is to tell a lie. I, for one, won't do it! I wouldn't want someone to do it to me!<P>I WILL NOT LIVE A LIE![/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Obviously, we view this very, very differently. And, I'm sure that my view point probably frustrates you as much as your's frustrates me. In truth, I feel somewhat mocked. <P>But, in my own defense, I believe you've missed the point. I'm not asking my H to lie. I'm simply asking my H to put MY needs above his own. I'm asking him to think of me, and NOT HIMSELF. <P>To me, my spouses refusal to say these words, would be UNCOMPROMISING. I don't believe it's asking for too much in my own situation--in your's, maybe it would be. I don't "force" him to say it...more or less we "bargained" (discussed our personal needs) on what we needed to hopefully put our marriage back on track. We AGREED to do certain things for each other. Marriage is a high wire act in constant need of "balancing". Both must GIVE to the other, not what they WANT to give, but what the other needs. <P>I believe the following to be a good example of what I'm trying to explain: To me, what kind of a marriage do I have if my H can't TELL ME he loves me? And, conversely, my H, most likely, would wonder what kind of marriage does he have if I can't MAKE LOVE to him. My H expects me to make love with him now, even after he betrayed me. I do not withhold sex because it's not "special" to me anymore.....I give myself freely, uninhibited in the HOPE that he will appreciate my loving qualities. I MOST CERTAINLY DO NOT SAY, "I WILL NOT MAKE LOVE WITH HIM BECAUSE IT'S NOW A "LIE" SINCE HE TOOK THE "SPECIALNESS" OUT OF IT FOR ME. <P>In other words, I make love to him and in return I ask for him to tell me he loves me. Again, I do not view this as asking for too much. Furthermore, how could asking My H for simple WORDS be any harder than MY GIVING of my body/my soul to him? <P>I don't believe I'm living in a fantasy world. Haven't you ever done anything for someone else, not because YOU wanted to do it, but because YOU KNEW how important it was to the other person????? This is not a lie....nor is it a fantasy....THIS IS CALLED SELFLESS LOVE.<P>~Marie <P><p>[This message has been edited by ohmy_marie (edited July 10, 2000).]
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Great question - one I have been asking myself constantly!<BR>Good post WhoDat...<BR>And, I agree with you,too, Marie.<BR>I am a BS. H was last person I would have ever dreamed would do this...trusted him completely. I have admitted to any part I contributed to the A happening - but H has not. My take is that if he was so unhappy, he should have communicated to me and given us the chance to solve within our M instead of solving it by having an A - and yes, it did not just happen!! I agree Marie - he actively pursued it. My H was even calling a phone meeting service!!! Yet, I am plan Aing, even though this is the worst pain I have ever felt - I am the one seeking the passion, love, and romance - not my H. Which really threw me because I felt I was always the one initiating sex and trying to have romance and passion - guess I hit so many roadblocks that I started giving up - and that's why it hurts so much - that he gave someone else(and behaved with OW) what I have always wanted! So, again - why should BS not deserve the same - love, passion, romance, especially when BS is more than willing??? And, I agree, Marie - I could also go back and make as many complaints -my H was not that involved with his family - always golfing, etc. I was always the one to take kids where they needed to go, etc - he checked out long ago, and I deserved communication and commitment to save our M - so, I can make just as many complaints, yet I did not have an A - I wanted to make things work, but didn't get any help in that dept. and now what a mess we are in - pain, hurt, resentment, no trust- is an A worth all of this??? Don't you owe your spouse a chance to make M better?? And, I hope we can survive and make our M better now, but I wish it had not taken this in order to do so!<BR>It has made me very insecure - I am so unsure sometimes how to act around my H of 23 years!! as if I don't know him anymore.<BR>H refuses counseling and reading books, questionnaires, etc - So, my question to WS is: "how can the BS be the one who wants to put all the effort into M and make it better without WS's help and love???"<BR>A
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Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 6,107
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Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 6,107 |
I can't believe I'm gonna do this, but Marie, I have to jump in here...<P>You have some expectations of your H, and when he doesn't meet them, you become hurt and upset. Understandable. But if you've learned nothing else here at MB, you must learn this:<P>NO EXPECTATIONS. NONE. <P>If you choose to give your body and soul to your H, then do so without asking for him to say he loves you in return.<P>I have been on both sides of this thing and I can tell you that there is pain on BOTH sides. I know it doesn't seem like the betrayer has much pain, but that simply isn't always true. I honestly think, even now with my divorce only 3 months away from being final, that had my stbx just STOPPED putting expectations on me and done *anything* that resembled a Plan A effort, that we wouldn't be getting a divorce. <P>When I was betrayed by my stbx (several times!) the LAST thing I wanted was hollow platitudes. Nope, I wanted the truth, and it was up to me to either accept what he was offering or deny it.<P><hey Truthseeker! I know, not spose to be here, but can't seem to stay away!>
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Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 631
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Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 631 |
Marie:<P>You can "coulda-shoulda-woulda" all you want, and you'd actually be right. But affairs just DON'T work that way. You can sit there in your deserved indignation, refusing to Plan A, and you will be right the entire time.<P>Another one of the Relationship authors who I also can't remember said, "Being right is the Booby Prize." If being right is more important to you than being married, by all means continue to BE right. You will win, because you ARE right (and I'm serious as a heart attack about this whole post). You will win loneliness, tears, and a divorce decree.<P>Plan A isn’t about kissing your spouses backside, it’s about PROVING to them that you are a safe haven for them to return to when the fantasy of the affair finally crashes.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,997
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,997 |
marie,<P>Telling your spouse you love him/her is not too much to ask if the statement is true. You are giving to your spouse because you do love him. You are willing to meet those needs because you love him. <P>What your H is saying to you is that he wants be honest with you and telling you that he loves you simply is not true AT THiS TIME. It's not a question of doing it because you need it. If it's a lie, it shouldn't be done. If he really does love you and simply has a hard time saying it, then I would say he's not meeting your needs and should be more considerate and tell you that.<P>But if he doesn't love you AT THIS TIME, then saying it would be wrong and would violate the 'open and honest communication rule'. He appears to be willing to work on getting those feeliings back, which is a huge thing for someone who doesn't have those feelings. I think you need to be more patient about that. And when he does say it, you'll know he really means it and isn't just saying it to make you happy. For the life of me I can't figure out why someone would want to be told that unless the spouse really felt it. Wouldn't you always wonder "Does he really mean it?" if it was so easy for him to say the words when he doesn't feel it?<P>I'm sorry, marie, it's not my intention to mock you, I just don't understand why you would want that.
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