I'm still kicking around here waiting for my h to open his eyes and see what he is doing and everythings he is losing. <P>I come to this board and I always have so much hope after reading many posts. But, I usually forget what it was that I read. I thought it would be great if I can have one thread to keep coming back to when I start to feel real low and hopeless. <P>So, can you all write at least one or two reason why you believe affairs don't last??<P>Thanks!!!!

Simple answers:<P>> Affairs are begun and based in dishonesty and deception...<BR>> The excitement of the sneaking and lying makes them seem far more than what they really are...<BR>> The OP is rarely meeting all of the needs of your spouse - and has no life history with him/her...<BR>> Fantasy eventually collides with reality when the truth comes out, and wayward spouses are faced with deep shame, guilt and the prospect of losing their families...<BR>> The "mask" slips and the wayward spouse comes face to face with the REAL OP, who is often very different from the soulmate he/she seemed to be...<P>A relationship begun as an affair begins has little hope of being successful simply because of the unsound foundation it has. Even if your spouse does not return to you before you give up and move on - it is almost he or she will someday come to regret the decision to leave you.<P>Maybe not as heartening as you wished, but there they are - the reasons...<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR>I can see clearly now,<BR>the rain is gone ...

Most of the marriages here began as honest and pure love. I wasn't sharing my H with anyone else when we were dating.<P>Affairs are nothing but lies and deception. What a great foundation to begin a life on. H and I have a sweet story about how we met. What would the OW have to tell had they ended up together? "Oh, he was married and we started secretly sleeping together. He lied about my very existence until the bitter end." I'd be pretty embarassed to tell that story!<P>Which leads to shame being another reason, along with guilt. The MP will always know that the OP ws a huge contributing factor to causing so much pain to people he/she was committed to.<P>Since the courtship of affairs is all about sneaking around, covering up etc. they do not develop like normal relationshipds. Once the reality sets in it is often a rude awakening.<P>There is no real history with the OP (back to the foundation of the relationship again). With a W and kids there are those family bonds, the sweet beginnings of a romance untainted with people's agony and conflict.<P>Neither party can trust each other (if they are smart anyway). The MP is a known cheater and the OP doesn't have the moral fortitude not to become part of an affair either. That's 2 strikes right there. I knew a couple like this. She left her fiancee for new BF. He didn't trust her becasue her knew if she'd cheated to be with him she could easily do it again. She didn't trust him berause he'd been a party to all the lies and she thought "If I'm capable then he probably is too". They crashed and burned.<P>The reasons are so many. Don't despair. Things looked really dark for me once too and we are doing great!

Hi Missy,<P>How are you and the boys doing? Haven't seen much of you on the board last couple days, hun. Hope things for you are calm and serene.<P>I have a reason:<P>When your H married you he was freely looking specifically for that person who he believed could meet all his needs. He was particular and careful of his choice. He then married you. SUCCESS! <P>When your H met OW, he was infatuated with an aspect (probably only one too) of her at the time, he experienced good feelings and went with it. BIG MISTAKE <P>Well, he didn't research or wasn't as careful about his choice as an adulteror, not like when he was single and had the freedom to pick and choose the one person he felt could meet all his needs. Hence FAILURE! <P>I have more but need to be somewhere. I'll post them later.<P>Best,<BR>Jo

My ex divorced me for OW. They have lived together for three yrs now and recently became engaged. He never told anyone of his engagement--wonder why??? I found out by accident, and when I asked him he said "we have talked of marriage [we are engaged] but no date has been set." He hadn't even told his adult children! I do so hope this relationship ends. like the majority of other affairs, but they may in the very small percentage that survive. Anyone else out there have a spouse that married Op, and if so how long did it last or is it still going strong?

I feel pretty much the same as everyone else. The adulterous relationship is based on lies. How can their be trust when trust had to be broken in order for this relationship to even exist? Does the shameful and sneaking feeling ever go away? Does the guilt?<P>At some point the Ow or OM has to know there is a spouse. What kind of person wants to hear about that? The conversations must be hurtful and humiliating and cause a lack of self-respect for both people.<P>I also agree that the "courtship" is not the same. Affairs don't have the same boundaries and flow of a normal dating experience. When you are single and free to choose, you don't choose a person who is not available as your future spouse. Dating is about interviewing prospective life mates to some degree. In an affair your ability to do that is seriously hampered. how free are you to express your feelings, go any place in public, mingle with family and friends? The whole experience is tawdry. No matter how good that person makes you feel, I would think that there would always be an element of shame and dirt about it. <P>My dad and his wife have been married for 20 years. She was slinking around with him for 7 before that. Even now, I cannot look at that relationship like it has any honor. How can they?

Missy,<P>Hey gal! I havent seen ya in awhile. How ya doing? I know you have been there for my threads. So i thought I would pop in on yours!<P>Well,let me give you my opinion on this one. <BR>Affairs wont last because it is WRONG!! PERIOD! What person with a sane mind would think that God would bless something that was wrong? He will not do it! That is not the way he is. He tells us all about adultery throughout the bible. Now we can confess our sin (like me). And go on and rebuild. Or we can live in sin everyday! That is that simple. <P>God told David that he would forgive, but the wrath would still be on his house. Now this is my opinion of that. God forgave me for my affair. But I have to live with it the rest of my life. So the wrath will still be on my house. <P>As far as them marry. Let me tell you this. My aunt married from an affair. They have been married for about 15 years now. She just found out that he has cancer. And seh thinks this is Gods punishment for her affair. NOW THAT IS TORMENT!!!!!!!<P>And trust me! That is the way the conscience works on the partners. I promise it will eat them up ALIVE!!!!!!!! <P>God Bless you Missy<BR>Renee<P>------------------<BR>We can do all things through Christ which strengthens us. Repeat that 5 times a day. I promise you success!

My H of 17 years had an affair and left me six months after the affair started. She has been divorced twice before. It took him 2.5 years after he walked out on me to settle our divorce. I think that he was not yet ready to marry her, and wanted to wait in order to appease his parents so as not to appear as rushing into anything. Four months after our divorce was final he married her. They have been married for 10 months now, and he tells everyone how happy he is and how he has no regrets about anything at all. How pathetic - he lied, cheated, trashed his marriage of 17 years, lost most of his friends, lost his home, had to give up the church we went to and his involvement in the music group there (Catholic Church), and he has no regrets? What kind of person can throw away so much and have no regrets, except possibly he is in denial/fog. I, too, have no doubt that this marriage born of lying and cheating will eventually fall apart, or that even if it doesn't, he will stay unhappily married rather than go through another divorce, unless she dumps him first. I know for a fact that there is not much trust between them. (No surprise there!) After he realized that I would not take him back, he married her because he had no one else or no where else to go to. After all, he didn't leave me until he had another relationship all set up, so he would not have to be alone for any amount of time. But he has convinced himself that everything is wonderful. I guess one can convince themselves of almost anything in order to justify and rationalize their behavior, especially bad behavior, when it is the only game in town. All I can say, is - time will tell. I fully expect that if it does fall apart, he will be back on my doorstep, apologizing and telling me how he made a terrible mistake. But it is way to late for any reconcilliation - he hurt me in so many ways, and not just with the affair. He has shown his true colors, and they are UGLY!!

missy9,<BR>All of the above posts are very good reasons affairs do not work. The thing you also have to keep in mind however is that the affair might just be an excuse to get out of the existing relationship. Some people are just not strong enough to work on the marriage or leave without a relationship "waiting in the wings".... I just don't want you to think that they all return to thier former spouses once the relationship blows up. There are a lot of betrayed spouses who don't want them back once the fog clears because of the hurt the WS has caused and the growth the BS has gained....<BR>I hope your H opens his eyes before it is too late.....<BR>Michael

Missy, here's hoping our words can serve to comfort you. I don't know how I would deal with my H if he was as mean as yours has been to you. <P>Now, as to affairs lasting. All the reasons given...based on lies and deception, fraught with instability and future infidelity problems, poisoned with guilt, created on a foundation of destroyed lives, colored by false expectations...all of these should be enough to bring any affair to an end eventually. <P>But to me the thing that most likely will bring most affairs to an end is that the individuals involved being soulmates and essentially alike eventually will destroy what they most long for...the perfect love. <P>Love is based on a certain amount of selflessness, a giving to another with little expectation of return.<P>Think what the expectations in an affair must be...it must certainly prove to be worth what it has cost each party in the end...a heavy resonsibility for such a flimsy relationship and one very few can live up to.<P>I agree however that there are individuals who will stick with an affair, even to the point of marriage, to justify what it has cost them...to prove it all was worth it.<P>Each of us has to believe that our WS are the type of individuals who are capable of realizing their mistakes and doing the right thing in the end. This result makes all the effort worthwhile.<P>I don't know if this will be of comfort, but sometimes I wonder if as Harley says, the fact that your H is still angry and fighting back (out of withdrawal) is an indication that some love still exists between you. After all the opposite of love is not hate but apathy. Just a thought.<P>Wishing all of us the strength to endure, you will be in my prayers. <P>Buffy<BR> <P>

Maybe because the fire of the forbidden is like a match fire ALWAYS TURN OFF.

And yet...hate to be the "doom and gloom" party pooper......<BR>When H is being fulfilled by ow in a way that i could never do it...<BR>A SUGAR DADDY to a TROPHY WIFE........<BR>How long does this last???????<BR>This was not an exit affair...she went after him and then he lost it in terms of who he was.....<BR>This will last as long as he provides (and at this point she must think that she has died and gone to heaven) and she provides the young body to fulfill his " adolescent adventure"<BR>She is not pretty or nice enough to snag another.......so will stay for keeps, hooking him with all sorts of youthful goodies and NO responsibilities to any one but each other...screw the kids etc, former friends and myself....<BR>

Let's take this to the top so we can get some more opinions.<P>Willbok--<P>This does seem like a situation that would not lend itself to resolution easily, but all affairs (even MLC) are subject to some kind of stress....What if she gets tired of being with an old guy (it happens)...or what if he can't keep up with her (he's old remember)...or what if he decides what he gets in return for his money is not worth it to him...or what if he just misses his old life after a while....even MLC have to end sometime. <P>Each betrayer goes after his own poison...to each his own...but eventually what made the game exciting begins to fade...whatever the reason. Those who haven't learned there's no turning back the clock are doomed to repeat their mistake again...with some other bimbo. <P>Just like any other affair, you have to hope for the best.<P>Buffy<p>[This message has been edited by buffy (edited July 12, 2000).]

mickey65<BR>Member posted September 07, 1999 08:32 PM <BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>These are the exerpts from the book Private Lies by Frank Pittman.. Chapt. 13..<BR>THE DEFECTS OF ROMANTIC 2ND MARRIAGES..<BR>1) The intervention of Reality: Divorce in these marriages tends to take place very early in the marriage. During th affair, the infidel and perhaps the affairee are in a state of intensely stimulating unreality. The second marriage itself seems to be a swithc that throws the lights on and illuminates the mess that has accumulated. It is as if the romance had seemed real, while the divorce didnt. Only after the remarriage did the divorce become real enough for the lovers to see that it was all a horrible mistake. The affairs that become marriages typically were so intense they were never questioned at all. During the divorce, reality never set in sufficiently to let the romance be evaluated and questioned. The romance was so romantic on one ever got around to asking if it was sane.<BR>2) Guilt.. People who have wrecked a family have inflicted much pain, and they have a lot they could feel guilty about. As reality sets in, they see many things they were overlooking. They may have felt no guilt during the affair and divorce, and the guilt they feel after the romantic marriage may come as a suprise to both of them. It is generally assumed that people who dont permit themselves to be happy must be feeling guilty about somethingm and are unhappy as a way of punishing themselves for their misdeeds. One aspect of guilt is the rluctance to enjoy ones ill-gotten gains. Another aspect of guilt is the urge to return to the scene of the crime and in some way make amends. As a romantic newlywed resists the joys of the ex-mate who was deserted so blitheyly, the new mate can feel disoriented and betrayed.<P>3) Disparity of sacrifice... Divorces are expensive luxuries. Whatever the financial cost, the emotional cost is far greater. Anyone after losing that much, will be drained, exhausted and depressed. It is particularly difficult when the exhausted survivor of a debilitating divorce marries the triumphant winner of the struggle. If the romantic partner is marrying for the first time, and especially if the courtship has been treacherous and insecure, the new mate will be ecstatic. A new couple may feel a disparity in what had to be sacrificed to bring them together. The partner who has never been divorced may have difficulty understanding the complexity of emotions toward the previous family.<P>4) Expectations.. Then there is the feeling that anything that cost this much emotionally had damn well better be worth it. The greater the sacrifices, the greater the expectations from the new marriage. Now that the promised land has been reached, it should flow with milk and honey. But instead, the new couple are just 2 tired warriors with no fight left in them. Whatever these people were expecting, the best they are likey to find now is the ordinariness of real life, the dubious peace between glorious battles. The more people enjoy the battles involved in wrecking and escaping marriages, the less they are likely to enjoy the business as usual of the new marriage that was the destination of it all.<P>5) General Distrust of Marriage.. Of course, anyone who has been unhappily married is likely to develop a strong distrust of the institution of marriage. People whose marriages fell apart during affairs are likey to end up distrusting marriages rather than distrusting affaris. People who distrust marriage have a vey hard time being in one.<BR>6) Distrust of affairee..It might seem appropriate for someone to go out with them, or even to marry them, but not quite appropriate for someone to have an affair with them. Affairs are considered dishonerable acts, and peope who feel guilty for having affairs believe that they are dishonorable and their partner must be dishonorable too.<BR>7) Divided Loyalties..During the affair tnd the divorce, the romantic couple isolate themselves. It is not only the betrayed spouses who are erased from awareness, but also the children, the families, friends, anyone who attempts to pull the romantic couple from the quicksand of their affair. But after the remarriage, there may be a longing to reestablish connections with families and friends and this may be more difficult than expected. Each close relationship and some that were amazingly casual may have to be renegotiated in view of the hurt caused to others.<BR>8) The nature of infidels.... People who get themselves into affairs have some specific characteristics that must influence the course of their subsequent marriages. Each kind of infidel is different. Most of those who end up marrying an affair partner are romatics who drift hypnotically through this romantic high without taking much responsibility. Romantic remarriage seldom works, not only because of th unrealistic nature of romance, but also because of the reality-avoiding nature of romantics.<BR>9)The nature of affairees.... Affairees want whatever they want from a relationship, jsut as everyone else does, but what makes them unusual is that they seek their goals among the married rather than the single. They choose partners who are not in position to marry them, and who are engaging in the relationship at great risk. People like this are clearly angry with marriage, and perhaps with the opposite sex. They believe marriage doesnt work, and they demonstrate that by breaking up another marriage as they find a partner for themselves.<BR>10) Romance.. People who believe in the chemistry of romance dont bother to learn much about the physics of relationships. When the romance begins to fade, romantics know little about how to solve those problems that they have relied on romance to transcend. It is painful to watch a romantic relationship dissolve. It happens so suddenly, and so totally. These people have alredy demonstrated that they would rather get divorced than learn physics, so it is far easier for them to follow the same pattern.<BR>11) Scapegoating of cuckolds... During the affair and divorce, the romantic couple conspired to convince each other that the defective marriage was the fault of the cuckold. To acknowledge otherwise, now that remarriage has taken place, seems a betrayal of the rescue fantasies that fed the romance.<BR>12) Unshared history... Even if the new marriage survives all of these obstacles, there is one further characteristic of all second marriages: The absence of a shared history that brings familiarity torelationships that began earlier in life. If a romantic marriage has wrecked a previous marriage or two, the history of the relationship is painful to both partners, and possibly somewhat embarrasing to others. The new partners keep thinking about it and justifying it, but it is hard to talk about lightly, in the familiar, safe manner of people who can tell their old war stories without guilt. However intense their commitment, people who share a guilty past arent totally rpoud of their new marriage.<P><BR>Ok.... i did it.. hope it helps everyone!!<P><BR>

Buffy:<BR>TY for the reply....<BR>I have got to the point where i care not in terms of his ever "waking up" and I will never be there for him in any way whatsoever.<P>In fact, for me, the fact that he is with her is probably good ..I have lost no sleep over loss of ego etc as a woman when I compare myself to who she is. For my children, it is terrible as her values and morals (or lack therof) are so low and this is what H stbx and her try to ply my teenagers with. This is the battle and conflict !!!<P>If he ever wakes up.........that will be his problem, not mine.<BR>

Back up to the TOP for Missy and I.<P>Jo

Back up to the TOP for Missy and I.<P>Jo

Willbok:<P>Sorry, but I just can seem to let this rest. Hon, what are you here for if you have no hope or if you want no hope? <P>Don't think I don't understand because I do because I've been there. My H is a professional man living in a broken down trailer house with a group of degenerates and a drunken OW. <P>The mother of all MLC. Maybe she's not young, or pretty, or anything that anyone else would want...but he loves her. But what he sees reflected in her is his needs. She's really impossible to live with, but he can't or won't try to get what he needs from me. <P>I don't want him back now either, not as he is. It's taken me a long time, but I'm finally beginning to heal from the hurt and now I can start doing what needs to be done to restore my marriage. Obviously I haven't a clue so I've got a lot of reading to do.<BR>But it's a profitable way to pass the time while he resolves his situation.<P>I wish you could put aside some of that hurt you feel and begin to heal because if your marriage is dead then in time you will need to move on and all that hate inside you will probably sour any new relationship you might have. <P>Believe me, the hate is not hurting him, it's only hurting you.<P>Buffy<p>[This message has been edited by buffy (edited July 14, 2000).]

Back to the TOP, need more anti-Affair ammo!<P>Right Missy?<P>Jo

Right on Jo:<P>Anymore reasons out there why affairs don't last?<P>Can we hear from those who have been in affairs that didn't last and why?