Dear Friends,<P>I need feedback from as many of you as possible from both side of the fence. I would like to know where everyone stands on this!<P>Brief scenario. I discovered my wife's affair in Sept. 98. Until May 1999, only one very good friend, with no mutual acquaintences knew. When no resolution had been reached in May 1999, I told my best friend here locally, and also my wife's mother (I had hopes she could say something to help our marriage). It is now July, 2000.<BR>My wife just stopped seeing the first guy, I think, but she has a new significant other whom she says is "just a friend", but whom I am not allowed to talk to "because I'm out to 'trash' her reputation." Since June-99, more friends and family have become aware of our situation. Primarily from my emotional overload, but it has become obvious since she moved out 2+ months ago into an apartment. I first became suspicious after I received a phone call from OM #1 who was surprised and irritated that I was there. I then tracked continued indiscretion by periodically taping our house phone.<P>My wife thinks that my lack of trust and periodic taping of her phone calls and leaking information to friends, after almost 2 years of this, is just as bad as her infidelity and puts on an even playing field if we are to reconcile our marriage.<P>Hence the question:<P>HOW BAD AM I FOR WHAT I HAVE DONE?<p>[This message has been edited by john1960 (edited July 14, 2000).]

Your wife is still in the fog of her affair(s) and she needs to justify her actions by making you out to be a bad guy also to help ease her guilty conscience. Read all the material here and you will see that the typical wayword spouse is guilty of blaming the faithful spouse to ease their piece of mind. It was considered a LB by your wife, but I don't think their is anything with trying to prove that you are not imagining an affair and that you have to protect your piece of mind when she is not using her's. I don't thing you were bad at all, just needed to know.

You are not bad at all John, you are just a normal human being. Your activities do not put you anywhere near the same level as your wife's infidelity and does NOT make it an even playing field. She's avoiding her responsibility and accountability by saying that. She's given you every indication not to trust her - so why should you? To repeat - you are not BAD at all. I hope you are able to have honest open discussion with your W so that you don't feel the need to tape phonecalls anymore.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alberta:<BR><B>You are not bad at all John, you are just a normal human being. Your activities do not put you anywhere near the same level as your wife's infidelity and does NOT make it an even playing field. She's avoiding her responsibility and accountability by saying that. She's given you every indication not to trust her - so why should you? To repeat - you are not BAD at all. I hope you are able to have honest open discussion with your W so that you don't feel the need to tape phonecalls anymore. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Alberta, Thank you for responding...I wish I could get feed back from more people here too. Anyway, I finally filed for divorce about 3 weeks ago. I realize the filing is not final and so does she...but it does start the closure process going. I do not record anymore for the simple reason she has moved out. Now she is free to do whatever she wants to...and she expresses that too. It's ironic...because she says she wishes she had never had an affair and wants the happinesss we had before she strayed...but she won't stop the LB's (Love Busters), like seeing this other guy, whatever the relationship is. He occasionally spends the night with her. She occasionally spends the night with him...they go places together...but they are "just friends". That's just a pill I couldn't swallow anymore.<P>To be truthful, the hair stands up on the back of my neck when I suspect she is lying. And each time I have investigated that suspicion...I have been accurate, with one possible exception. So I would call myself fairly intuitive when she gives off those signs...however...it is possible, actually, probable, that I may have missed other signs. <P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by trying2_4give:<BR><B>Your wife is still in the fog of her affair(s) and she needs to justify her actions by making you out to be a bad guy also to help ease her guilty conscience. Read all the material here and you will see that the typical wayword spouse is guilty of blaming the faithful spouse to ease their piece of mind. It was considered a LB by your wife, but I don't think their is anything with trying to prove that you are not imagining an affair and that you have to protect your piece of mind when she is not using her's. I don't thing you were bad at all, just needed to know.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>OK...But once I found out about the affair...How do you feel about the periodic monitoring of the situation and the fact that I did catch her time after time?<BR> <BR>I mean, I have finally cut loose and let go. I tried to make this marriage work with all my heart, but the only time it seems I had a chance with her was after I did some LB or another. You see, she has told most folks that I have lied and made up the story, like her family. And they are mad at me, because they think I am purposely ruining their daughter's reputation and that I should not have told anyone about her indiscretion.

Hey there, John - <P>I am a betrayer myself and I don't feel what you are doing or did is wrong. My husband did the same things. I had my indiscretion when we were separated and when we got back together I lied to him about it. He went through all of the same tactics as you to find out about it. <P>Since then I think that he periodically checks up on me, but I will never give him cause to worry again. I regret that your wife has not proven as trustworthy, but have no fear that you've done anything wrong... your W is simply justifying herself. I wish you luck.<P>------------------<BR>"I believe... this is heaven to no one else but me - and I'll defend it long as I can be left here to linger in silence if I choose to would you try to understand?" - Sarah McLachlan

You are not wrong, however you need to consider if it is more important to be right or to reconsile your marriage.<P>If you WANT get back together, then you may have to set aside your rightness for a while. <P>She might figure out she is wrong all by herself further into recovery.<P>However, with were she is at right now, I don't know how successful recovery can be.

I don't thnk there's anything wrong with your monitoring if you were trying to communicate with her and she just wasn't cooperating. However, I will play Devil's advocate alittle on the issue of telling friends about it. I know you needed to get support, but she doesn't feel safe reconciling because she feels like her every action is being judged by others. Rather than put herself under the spotlight, she would rahter run away from it. I'm not saying she's right and you're wrong. I'm just pointing out that if you really want to reconcile, she needs to feel safe coming back. Right now, she doesn't.<BR>

For this woman to be lieing to you for that long and still doesn't believe she is wrong she has a problem. You are absolutely justified, in a marriage there should not be privacy. My W got angry as well but I will still look after her. How completely delusional she must be to actually think you should sit quietly while she has her fun. You have a life as well and need to live it. You gave her way to much time in my opinion. I'm only 1 month since D-day. The door is open to my wife right now, but the goal I have is to focus on myself, and as time goes on she will become less and less important. I don't think the window is larger than 3 to 6 months. I love my wife, but I also have a certain amount of self respect and I hope she sees the light soon.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by homer:<BR><B>For this woman to be lieing to you for that long and still doesn't believe she is wrong she has a problem. You are absolutely justified, in a marriage there should not be privacy. My W got angry as well but I will still look after her. How completely delusional she must be to actually think you should sit quietly while she has her fun. You have a life as well and need to live it. You gave her way to much time in my opinion. I'm only 1 month since D-day. The door is open to my wife right now, but the goal I have is to focus on myself, and as time goes on she will become less and less important. I don't think the window is larger than 3 to 6 months. I love my wife, but I also have a certain amount of self respect and I hope she sees the light soon.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Homer-just so that you are clear...she isn't lying all the time...It's just that I don't know when she's lying...because now she lives in her apartment has excluded me from that part of her life...other that to say..."If this we are going to get back together, I have to be happy and I have to know that you are not constantly checking up on me!">

Here's my scale for both of you (scale 1-10, with 10 being the worse):<P>John1960 = 2<BR>Wife = 20<P>So no, you are not on even playing fields. And you know what, my counselor said the same thing to me and quoted those stats to both my H and I.<P>She's in the WRONG, all the way in the wrong and she knows it. She has to have something to relieve her guilt so is using your snooping as a notch on her "Infidelity" yardstick, when it really belongs to the "I'm Betrayed - Please Help me" yardstick.<P>Sorry, but that's how I feel about it.<P>Jo<P>

It's funny how the bad guy is the one who did nothing more than try to discover if the suspected lies were indeed lies and finds out that his suspicions are true! <P>No, you are not bad, but this is not going to win your wife over. She doesn't deserve your trust, but I think you have to stop this type of stuff if you ever want her to want to be deserving of it. You're just putting distance between you.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by popeye:<BR><B>It's funny how the bad guy is the one who did nothing more than try to discover if the suspected lies were indeed lies and finds out that his suspicions are true! <P>No, you are not bad, but this is not going to win your wife over. She doesn't deserve your trust, but I think you have to stop this type of stuff if you ever want her to want to be deserving of it. You're just putting distance between you.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Popeye; so if I stop this stuff (when I know things haven't completely stopped by her choice)...what then?...suggestions? Just ignore that it continues on and play dumb?

Hi, John. I think the question should be (instead of How bad Am I) How do I restore my marriage? (if you want it back, do you?) <P>Of course you're not bad, you've only done what most anyone would do given the same circumstances. I believe in the MB Plans, yet I also believe that unless the betrayer sees some form of consequences for the actions/behavior, they may just continue on the same path they are going down. How does your wife feel about reconciliation? Are you both working toward that, and what steps are being taken? She must know if there is to be any reconciliation, there can't be any OM in the picture. It's hard enough having to deal with an OM in the past than having to deal with one in the present. I think that the issue is with terms of reconciliation, and your wife has to really do some HARD work if she's working toward that goal, which would include (IMO) moving home, no secrets from you AT ALL, counseling (don't know if you're in) and of course, no affair. Her thinking that puts you both on an even playing field (her affairs and what you've done) is justification and only serves to alleviate her guilt feelings. <P>Sorry you're having to go through this.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Connor (edited July 13, 2000).]

Well John, <P>Does it really matter? Of course she's going to say you're wrong in trying to catch her in lies and that the taping puts you on a level field. You expected her to like it?<P>You weren't wrong to do what you needed to uncover the truth...but the truth of her infidelity has been out for three years...it's time to move on and decide what to do about it. She's moved out and she can do what she wants, she thinks. Your job is to convince her she will be better off returning to your home and marriage.<P>She can have one, two or three OM if she likes, it won't change the basic fact that you and she need to work on your relationship if it isn't going to end in divorce. Forget about the OM and concentrate on what needs to be done to restore your wife's love for you.<P>I know you're angry but sometime anger has to end especially when it is doing you a disservice by continuing.<P>I looking forward, how about you?<P>Buffy <BR>

Just had this discussion with my dearly beloved.<P>In his world I am a bad person because I keep snooping. Funny thing is, my latest round of snooping is the first round that didn't turn up something. <P>H says I "keep finding things to dredge up from the past." Yeah...the phone sex affair STARTED three years ago and ended the day after I found out about it (to the best of my knowlege). He hadn't talked to any of his internet babes for at least half an hour before I found them. And PA babe--he hadn't boffed her for more than 24 hours when I found out. So, yes, it was all in the past. I guess I'll have to catch him in the act (G-D help me if I do) before it counts.<P>So, John, you're as bad as I am. And if you don't think I'm bad, then you shouldn't think you are. And that's what counts: what you think.<P>All the best. --HBC