My H had an affair that started on a trip out of town for work and he only saw her when he was out of town. We have come a long way in the recovery process and we both want to work through the problems, but we had a major setback. The woman he works with is not OW and I don't feel like he is looking for another affair. Eating with him and a woman is a sore spot for me and I wish he would understand that it is like putting salt in an open wound. <BR>Today he is out of town and I asked him if he would not have lunch or dinner with only him and a woman. The OW is not around, but he does work with a woman there. The whole affair did start with a dinner or lunch with him and OW. So maybe you can understand why this is so hard for me. <BR> Today I asked him again and he told me that he wasn't going out for lunch. Then I felt bad, I was lovebusting. I sent him a message and appoligized I should have just trusted him. Ten minutes later he calls and says that woman from work asked him to go to lunch with her. He did call to inform me and I know that I should be grateful. But why can't he understand how painful this is for me and how I was trusting that he wouldn't hurt me and now I am hurting. Then I reacted and now we have both done some major lovebusting and are very angry with each other. Any thoughts?<p>[This message has been edited by Monique (edited December 07, 1999).]

I wish there was some type of advice I could offer you. Trust is still a major issue in my relationship with my husband. I do understand where you are coming from and feel for you. Know that you are in my thoughts and prayers. I hope somebody will be able to offer you some solid advice.<P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole<P><BR>

Hi Monique,<BR>I remember you and your H from earlier in the year. Congratulations on your progress so far in recovery!<P>Have you two done counseling together? Maybe it would be helpful if you have not for someone (a third party) to help your H see how this behavior makes you feel. But on the other hand, if this is one of the only issues in recovery, maybe you can try to be more understanding - is it reasonable to expect him never to have lunch or dinner with a woman again in his work environment? Were there multiple affairs or do you have other reasons to worry about this particular co-worker?<P>I am not good for this kind of advice right now. I do feel that our wayward spouses at some point need to put our feelings first - as we need to do for them - for no rational reason besides it is important to us.<P>Take care,<BR>Starpony

Starpony,<BR> I do trust my H for the most part and there is no reason to worry about him and this co-worker. His buisness does sometimes call for lunches. This is just still a raw issue and I am not ready for this even though I have been pushed into this situation three times in the past couple of months. <BR> <P>

You got mail!<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

I'm Monique's H. I'm 3 hours south of her right now, on what feels like the other side of the world. I've read her post (and replies) and I just don't know what to do.<P>Not to be bold, but here's my point of view: <P>I'm away on a business trip, a trip I'd rather not be on (work requires it). I'm at a client's location, where an my associate from this region is primarly engaged. The scope of my job is very clear, both in content and duration. I don't have time for social activities, just barely enough to wheen(sp?) myself off the project so she (my associate) can take it over. So,,, to get to the meat of the matter- my wife is of course concerned about this woman. This woman who is happily married, is strongly devoted to her job and her family. She is not overly personal, only enough to be friendly and have a good working relationship with her coworkers. Since her and I are in downtown away from our "natural habitat", we have to find a solution for lunch (on occassion- and I do mean rarely)<P>Now, what my wife unfortunately fails to see is 1) This woman and I have a STRICTLY business relationship and do not wish to be close friends, 2) I do not wish to EVER repeat the colossal error in judgement I made 6 months ago- I'm faithful to my W and fam, 3) the woman down here grew accustomed to going to lunch with co-workers at past client sites and sees nothing out of the ordinary about asking me to go.<P>I JUST WANT TO GET MY WORK DONE AND HAVE A HAPPY FAMILY. I THINK IT IS FAIR FOR ME TO EXPECT TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A COMFORTABLE WORK ENVIRONMENT, ONE IN WHICH I CAN TALK TO MY ASSOCIATES (MALE OR FEMALE). AND I MIGHT ADD,,, I DO NOT SEEK OUT OPPORTUNITIES TO BE ALONE WITH OTHER WOMEN. THE DECISION TO PLACE ME HERE WAS OUT OF MY HANDS. ABOUT LUNCH, I NEVER ASK HER. SHE HAS ASKED ME EACH OF THREE TIMES NOW. THE SITUATION MY WIFE PUTS ME IN IS VERY AWKWARD, I JUST DON'T WANT TO BE UNFRIENDLY TO THIS PERSON (OR WIERD MIGHT BE A BETTER WORD). I NEED TO BE ABLE TO WORK WITH HER. IF I COULD, I'D EAT ALONE TO AVOID THIS NIGHTMARE.<P>Should I just tell this woman that my wife forbids me to join her at lunch? And should my wife call me relentlessly, making accusations about my behavior and embarrassing me in from of clients? This is turmoil!<P>I'm not looking to hear, "we'll that's the price you pay for being unfaithful". I am paying a price believe me. But that price shouldn't transcend my person- affecting my work and the wellfare of my family. <P>I'm aggravated and I don't know how to fix this situation. We've tried counselors, but they seem to have a "save the world" attitude, not addressing short term problems.<P>Any comments would be appreciated, please excuse me if this seems bold.. i'm just upset.<P><BR>- BBD<P><BR>[This message has been edited by Big Big Dummy (edited December 07, 1999).]<P>[This message has been edited by Big Big Dummy (edited December 07, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by Big Big Dummy (edited December 07, 1999).]

Wow. I just read over my posting and boy it looks abrasive. I'm just very frustrated. <P>I want to help my wife feel comfortable, but I don't know how to get this under control. I try to steer clear of "invitations" such as the one today, but no person can have complete control over their environment. I made the decision to go to lunch with this woman today, because I didn't want to make things "unpleasant" between us. I am not carving out boundaries, I'm just dealing case by case. The woman is not like OW, she keeps to her own and is respectable. It would be an unnecessary cost to sour my work environment over nothing. But I know this is hard for someone hurting to understand.

To Big Big Dummy: <P>My H and I are at odds about this same issue.<BR>issue. His affair was not with a coworker, but someone he commuted to work with by train. But he does of course work with some very attractive women and occaisionally travel with them. (Although usually as a group). A month ago, he went on a one week business trip to Kalamazoo, MI with a young, single up and coming female - just the two of them for a whole week. Even though we're over a year into recovery, this setup had me concerned. I knew they would be dining together and asked him not to drink alcohol with her. He did not consider this request reasonable, and when he arrived home I could tell he'd been drinking on the plane. How much? As much as they served him (his way of answering) I found it hard to give him a warm welcome home, but we got past it. A few days ago, he went on another business trip - again just with this woman, this time to Sweden! I'd asked him to put a picture of me in his wallet (he only carries pix of the kids), specifically to show her on the plane. I'm pretty, have a great smile and don't look my age. I wanted her to know this. (just in case). He refused! Said he didn't have one that was small enough and that he was tired of having to prove he was trustworthy. In anger, he opened his suitcase to show me he had packed his favorite framed pictre of me. But she won't see it! He's missed the point entirely... Then he said that was the last time he would offer proof to me. After he left I got his diner's club bill for one of his dinners in Kalamazoo $110.00. 2 dinners. We have a hard time spending that much when we are celebrating an anniversary! Clearly they are consuming a fair amount of alcohol...<P>So as to what you can do to ease your wife's concerns: don't be like my husband! Don't wait for her to find receits - offer them all to her - do things her way at least until you've reassured her that you have learned from your mistake. Don't go by your timetable as to when you can put all this in the past - but take your cues from your wife. And most of all, try to hide your anger or annoyance- it makes the betrayed even more suspicious that it culd happen again. <BR> <BR>To Monique: <P>Be grateful for a husband who is willing to read your posts on this site.... he is showing a good deal of humility and I think the best of intentions by doing so. Sharing this site gives you something huge to experience together. I'm envious... (and of course, I understand totally)<p>[This message has been edited by Maura (edited December 07, 1999).]

Maura,<BR> Thank you for your reply. I am not handling this well and everything has just backfired at me. Tonight things have gone from bad to horrible and I don't even know where to go from here. <BR> <P><p>[This message has been edited by Monique (edited December 07, 1999).]

Big Big Dummy -- Hi, I can understand your frustration right now, but I think there is something that you're missing. Monique did not say that she thought you were going to have another affair. On the contrary, she said the the circumstances reminded her of the infidelity. Reactions like this are fairly normal. It's just something that has to be worked through.<P>Maura had a very good point when they said <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Don't go by your timetable as to when you can put all this in the past - but take your cues from your wife. And most of all, try to hide your anger or annoyance- it makes the betrayed even more suspicious that it culd happen again.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Each of us, man or woman, betrayed or betrayer all have our own timeframe we must work through in healing from infidelity. As the betrayed we must learn to trust our spouse again. This can be a very difficult thing to do, and can only be accomplished with practice. I know that sounds strange, but you give a little, and see what happens. . .as things progress, you give more and more, until you finally reach the point where you don't have to think about, you just do it. (hope that makes sense) As the betrayer, you have to realize that your partner must go through all the stages of healing. Just because you have completed steps 1-10 (this is just arbitrary, I don't know if there is an actual number) doesn't mean your spouse has. They may have only completed steps 1-6. We all go through things differently.<P>I hope that you don't feel like I am attacking you, because I'm not. I understand your side of this perdicament very well. I guess the biggest question is two sided. . .Do you understand Monique's side, and does she understand yours?<P>Complicated huh.<P>Prayers for both of you.<P>God Bless<P>

Complicated and delicate. There seems to be frustration on both sides. I'm glad you two are willing to "post it out" here.<P>Monique:<P>Those triggers can cause such turmoil. The out-of-town setting, the lunch, etc. I can certainly understand how this could cause anxiety. It appears, however, that BBD's work will continue to require this type of setting, on occassion. You may never know what he does while he's away, so please try to remember the faithful acts you can observe. <P>It also sounds like some of your frustration may stem from not feeling understanding or compassion for the depth of your anxiety/insecurity. Does this lead to love-busting on your part and thus, the spiral of frustration?<P>BBD:<P>You also sound very frustrated. I understand the position this places you in and I empathize with you. Would you be willing to consider some alternatives? Would it be possible to take another colleague or a client along to lunch to eliminate any threat of intimacy in Monique's eyes? Could you suggest that you're just going to grab a bite and eat at your desk?<P>Understanding and compromise on both sides may help with this situation.<P>God Bless<P>Enlightened

Hi Big Big Dummy,<P>Hey, it is not what I would have named you, but if the shoe fits....<P>Just kidding. I think you may remember me <P>You may know, many times I agree with your position. In fact I agree with you in this particular situation, 'cept you may have agreed to not have lunch, then did anyway. Not cool, but I do understand the awkwardness you encountered. Think I used the same word awkward with your wife today.<P>But you know, being "right" doesn't make a big difference in a relationship.<P>I searched your posts the last few days and I think you described the cycle of discontent dead on. Your words:<P>"Here's the cycle (full circle)- She accuses, I get mad because it's unfair, she mistakes my anger as concealment, I get unhappy because I feel there's nothing I can do. So, her insecurity met only by resentment, anger, and distance."<BR> <P>You (both of you would be ideal) have to break the cycle. <P>But there is a lot you can do on your own. It is difficult to control our feelings, although we can work toward feeling differently. We can, however, choose our words and our own actions. Of course we can choose our own reactions, as well.<P>When my dear friend Monique, floats near the deep end, don't push her in further or take away her floatie, pull her out. She is just screaming for love and reassurance...even though it sure sounds like accusations and demands.<P>I bet in her saner moments, she would even sit down with you and come up with a plan for deflating the situation instead of letting it esculate. <P>How about something like "Monique, that sounds like an accusation (or I am feeling defensive right now). Can we discuss this later tonight and come up with a solution?<P>Then do it. Be on the same team. I think you two might have tenedancy to be on the same team most of the time, but then something comes up and you get on opposing teams again. You are not going to come up with a win/win solution if you are opposing each other. You can disagree, but remember the goal is to heal and it is a team effort.<P>That's why being "right" doesn't make a great deal of difference. <P>Today you may have been "right" but are you closer to your goal? I'm thinking not. And today may not have happened if you had broken the cycle "yesterday". <P>Good thing there's always tomorrow. Hey, it's only a day away!<P>Monique loves you and is completely devoted to you. Take it from me, it is tough. I have the advantage of age and history and it is still tough. In fact, I am anything but suicidal, but I can honestly say it would have been easier to die than to live through 1999 (my nightmare started Jan 8, 1999) and since the affair was one year ago, Ho Ho Ho, Merry Christmas...not.<P>So although I agree with you on some specific issues, I have empathy for Monique.<P>As I said months ago, you can not comprehend her pain because it is not your own. Even if you can not feel it, it is real for her. And at this point it probably comes in waves. In between, it is not too bad, then blamo and the pain crashes over her again.<P>So be kind, be gentle. Break the cycle. Don't deny your feelings, but choose your words and choose your actions. You are on the same team. You have the same goal. You will celebrate the same victory.<P>And I'll be cheering in the stands! Take care!<P> <P><BR>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13<p>[This message has been edited by Faith Hope Love (edited December 08, 1999).]