Hi Allison,<P>Hope you're feeling better today! There are a lot of good advice on this thread for you. I know being positive is important and I certainly understand how important it is to guard your heart. We've been through enough already haven't we?!<P>Our outings have been a little of both, but nothing strenuous as he hurt his back in early June and it still bothers him a lot. Last Saturday, we went to see the movie "The Kid" with Bruce Willis. It was a funny movie, but I cried at the end of it because the story line kind of parallel what was going on in his life.<P>1. He just had a birthday.<BR>2. His mother left the family when he was little.<BR>3. We were living in a condo and couldn't have pets, but he has always wanted to get a dog like in his childhood!<BR>4. Still wants to have kids.<BR>5. Feels things are missing from his life.<BR>6. The woman he ends up with is already part of his life.<BR>7. The character is given a wake-up call, is reminded of what he really wanted in life, has an opportunity to make changes in his life. He looks at all those around him and appreciates them more.<P>He thought I set him up with this movie. Ha! Ha! But, he was the one who chose it. I wanted to see Perfect Storm. We went for dinner afterwards and talked about the movie and the similarities. Anyway, we had a good time, the movie really touched on a lot of issues that's going on in our lives.<P>Well, enough about me. What kinds of things have you been doing lately with your husband? <BR>Anything happen to indicate that it isn't going well? His statement: "He said it takes him a longer time than it takes me to figure things out, but it was time we talked," sounds more like he has finally come to see his situation more clearly. If he was sharing bad news would he really be taking you to dinner over it? Just a thought.<P>Anyway, let us know how it goes. Remember, stay positive, and by all means follow your own advice. You'll be great no matter what!!<P>Blessings, sdn<P>

Hi All,<P>Thanks for all the great replies. I am really able to look at this from both ends, and if it's bad I feel I can handle it. If it's good...well my mind can't even go there right now.<P>Like Lostva says, it's probably somewhere in the middle. <P>He's coming over today to get D for a baseball game. If he can't look me in the eye when he's here I'll probably be here posting again how terrified I am. <P>What would I do without you guys?<P>sdn..a few months ago I rented "the story of us" and H and I watched it. Jeez, was that painful to watch. He also thought I set him up. I rented it thinking that he wouldn't watch it with me. I hope your H got something good out of the movie you guys saw. Maybe it will really make him think.<P>H and I have been doing fun things together, but not alone. All of our time together is family time, which is why I'm kinda scared about tomorrow night. He has been very careful about not spending any time alone with me, except last Fri. he invited me to breakfast and shopping. <P>Okay another question to NoMas and Truthseeker...here goes:<P>Is your fear that things will go back to the way they were prior to the EA's? Do you see that you can be the catalyst for that not happening? My H told a freind that he is scared to death of going back into the same sort of marriage we had before his A. And I mean SCARED TO DEATH! That is his #1 fear. How do I show him that it does not have to be that way? My God, I don't want him to resign himself to coming home. That would be a death sentence to this marriage. It means that I can change all I want and grow and be better, but if he's just resigned to this, yuck...<P>Thanks again for all of your encouragement guys. I'm scared to hope for good news...can't even go there right now. All I can do is be prepared, and that I am. <P>allison

Even if he thinks that will happen, even if he is resigned to that happening, it won't happen.<P>If you grow and you change, the relationship can not helped but be changed.<P>Even if he does not participate.<P>Of course you don't WANT him to have this attitude, but if he does, that doesn't mean he will have it forever. If he wants to come home and be married, then at least that's a step in the right direction.

Hi Allison...<P>I think what truthseeker and I may both be feeling here (and I don't presume to speak for her here) is that we are struggling with two 'pulls' or attractions. The feelings that were created with the "OP" were pretty strong...like this powerful magnetic field. The attempt to pull away from that and move in the direction we need to be moving in....requires effort. I don't mean to suggest that coming back to the spouse herself is 'effort'...but pulling away from that draw from OP is. <P>Your confused heart whispers to you all the time. There is the fear that when confronted with any LB's, or just a 'ho-hum' day...that you will stop moving in that direction...to just pause or rest for a second...and then maybe in a weak moment, be pulled back. Deep down in my heart...I want the pull towards my wife to prevail...because it is the ONLY way that life will resume in a healthy way for any of us.<P>I do think it is a lie from the 'enemy' to tell us that it can never, ever be as good as it seemed to be with the OP. But that is why we have to 'take our thoughts captive' and battle this thing in the mind as well as the heart.<P>One of the last things I shared with my "OW-friend" is that even if it was possible that given another time and place, that we could have been very happy together as a couple, we should have never progressed to the point where we discovered that. And that...I believe is the battle that many have in crawling out of this place. <P>Sure...these kind of relationships are void of all the extra baggage that is pointed out here that normal marriage relationships have. We just have to look past the short term feelings and thoughts, and see the big, overall picture.<P>And I do want you to know how much I have appreciated your kind and thoughtful words here. Your openeness has allowed me to hear you when you did speak the truth to me.<P>I hope the news you hear this week...will not be nearly as traumatic as your mind is dwelling on. We'll all be anxious to hear from you.

allison,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Is your fear that things will go back to the way they were prior to the EA's? <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, that is definitely a strong fear. And it's not even that we had a highly conflicted marriage. We weren't fighting all the time. There was no abuse, substance addiction, no financial problems. It just plain flatlined. The feelings that I did have (which were nowhere near what I felt for the OM) stopped. We were togehter and it was just kinda "Well, this is the way it is." We got along OK, could work as a team for things like buying a house, disciplining my son, etc. But our time spent together got increasingly dull to the point where I thought I would explode. <P>You say I can be a catalyst for preventing a return to that staleness. Sometimes I believe it. Other times I doubt. Today is one of the days that I'm doubtful. <P>I did get some encouragement from my other thread "A Question for other betrayers". It's possible that the deadness I'm feeling right now is just part of the process and I'll get past it. Coming out of an EA is a little like dreaming you won the lottery and waking up to find that you didn't. It all looks grey right now, and it will take time to adjust to reality and 'see' the colors that are there. That's what I'm going on for now. <P>I often wonder why I keep coming to this site if I'm not sure that I want my marriage. Maybe deep down I do want it, I'm just fighting the fear. Maybe that's why I keep coming here.

Dear Allison,<P>I want to give you a big hug and say Hey! You are going to be ok. We all must remember that our WS are confused as H*** and the only way to clear anything up is to talk about it, sometimes over and over again, before it finally goes away. I would be feeling the same way you are, and I remember my H said something about going out and having a talk. Turned out he just wanted a normal evening with me-no kids-no pressure-just shootin the breeze. Please remember that WS cant meet any of our EN's right now, we will all be let down if we go looking for it. We need to learn to stop reacting to every little thing WS say or do. If they have no clue whats going on, how can we?? They bounce back and forth so many times its hard to know which part of WS you will be taliking to today. The taker or the giver?? Let go and let God handle it for you. Pray for a great dinner meeting. Like I read before, if he says its over, try to stay as calm as possible, he might mean that for a month and then next month he will want to talk you again. You just never know, they never know. Too many emotions. You have posted here for me and now I hope my words help you. Luv ya Hon. Be strong!!! We are all here for ya!!!<P>Susan

Bring to the TOP ...<P>Allison!<P>We need an updtae on Wednesday's meeting w/your H.<P>How'd it go, Hon?<P>Concerned and waiting,<BR>Jo

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sadwife_in_co:<BR><B>if i was going to tell my partner i wanted a divorce, i would not choose a restaurant as the setting....</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That's exactly where my wife asked me for one after I caught her with her boss...<P>Guess she figured it would be safer to meet in a public place in case I went nuclear (the worthless-scumbag-multiple-homewrecking-OM was definitely feeding her fears in this regard, btw)<P>Bama<P>

To Bama -<P>What you said about meeting in a restaurant. There ARE plenty of people who do this. of course it's really dumb because a scene still often ensues. When I was a waitress I saw this happen twice. A waiter approached his table to ask if the couple wanted dessert. Just as he walked up the woman yelled to her companion "I can't believe you've been F---ing her all this time you *%#$*&*" Another time a waitress was chit chatting with a table (2 women). Everything seemed friendly enough. Then one woman said to waitress "This is my best friend and she's been screwing my H behind my back. Now what kind of friend does that?" The other woman obviously had no clue her friend knew. She turned pure white, kept saying "Oh my God, oh my God" Personally if someone dumped me in a restaurant I would cause a huge scene!

Well if my H dropped a bomb on me regarding Infidelity or Divorce whether it be publicly or private, I don't think I'd care. I'd react to it and think about where I was later. It's pretty devistating stuff, esp if you have no clue it's coming.<P>I'd probably cry aloud, ask why, raise my voice and start pacing. <P>I'm pretty sure the WS is thinking of themselves when deciding the "where" to drop the bomb, and since my H knows me, he knows no matter where he told me my reaction would be the same.<P>Jo

Well guys,<P>There was no bomb dropped thank God. I carried so many of your words in my mind as we went, and got through the evening in one piece in large part due to all of you.<P>Ok this is the deal.<P>He had written down several questions for me. Said I ask all the questions, and now he wants me to answer some. As best as I remember they were:<BR>1) Why did you send me that card last week? (I sent a funny card and wrote in it that I believe in him)<BR>2) How did you think last weekend went? (He stayed here last weekend, and I thought it went great)<BR>3)Where do you see us 6 mos from now? I told him that I saw us celebrating our 20th anniv (which will be in Jan)<BR>4)Do you think we have a can't live with/can't live without relationship.<P>Well, as usual when we are together we talked about these issues and others for hours. We both got a little drunk and emotional. OW came up (he brought her up) and he said some things that really bothered me. I asked him what she gave him that I didn't. This woman you have to understand is not married, has no kids, no family living close to her. My H was "it" to her. There was nothing else in her life. He dissapointed her time and time again as when he was with her he was never really "with her" (H's words). She gave him all of her time and attention and was just absolutley in awe of every word he said.<P>Now, how the he!! do I compete with that?<P>Keep in mind, OW has been out of the picture for several mos...she couldn't take the relationship anymore.<P>So today, I feel more confused than ever. <P>Just a sidenote, he admitted that he had been out "looking for years". His little buddies that he hangs out with (all married) and he would hit the bars and flirt a lot. They would go on their golf weekends and my H would always be in the group that went out to the bars. He told me last night that his best buddy (married) has two high-class hookers that he has been seeing for years. He kindly offered one to my H (all expenses paid) and H turned it down. This was very recently...I'm not sure he would have turned down a few years ago, nor am I sure he hasn't had other flings in the past.<P>You know, I'm getting sick of this. Why should I sit here and wait for his big descision? I feel like this is one confused/depressed man, and that I can lead him in the right direction, given a chance. I know he wants to be a good person, to live a good life, but the other life is so tantalizing, so much more large than what I can offer him.<P>What do you guys think...and I'm interested in what some of the male cheaters think. Would it have worked for you if your wife said..."ok buddy, enough. You are done with your other life. You are going to be here and do what is right. You are going to live a righteous life now."<P>I'm just feeling today that I have to take a more pro-active stance here. He refuses counseling, won't read a book...why can't I lead him out of this and tell him that is exactly what my plan is? Why does he get to choose while I sit here and wait?<P>Enough of my rant...thank you all for your thoughts regarding this thread. I read and re-read every one of them. They gave me strength, and today I feel strong, but I want my H to follow me on MY path now. I'm sick of his wishy-washy crap.<P>GRRRRRRRRRRR <BR>allison<BR>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by az allison:<BR><B>He had written down several questions for me.</B><P>Good. You have him thinking. <P>All easy questions to answer, except the last one. Not sure what that means...<P>Anyway, I know you are frustrated, but, look at it this way, the game continues, which you weren't so confident of before.<P>I am not in an infidelity situation, but I am trying to recover a withdrawn wife. I have experienced many of the same frustrations you express here at the ned of your note. <P>One of the things that has given me strength recently, 3 months into Plan A, is the slow realization that, hey, I could survive a breakup, if that is what to be. I think that is where Plan Aers can draw their strength -- we do control our destiny, as far as our actions, anyway. As do you. You might Plan A away, be the best person you can, win back your husband's heart, and then decide "forget this guy, he made me work too hard at this". But at that point, the decision will be yours, and he will be the one seeking to accommodate you.<P>Realizing that you do have viable options gives you the strength and patience to play the waiting game.<P>So....what was your answer to his last question? <P> <P>

allison,<P>I see a lot of hope here. The questions he asked show that he's thinking in terms of reconciling and trying to find out if it'spossible, if YOU think it's possible, and just how it might happen, what the end result might look like, etc. The fact that he's thinking about these things is GOOD.<P>I alos see hope in this statement:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>He dissapointed her time and time again as when he was with her he was never really "with her" <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Why do you suppose that is? Could it be that you were still in his heart? That despite all the time and attention she gave him that SHE couldn't compete with YOU?<BR>

Hi Allison...<P>Welcome back....you had a bunch of us wondering. We didn'hear any CNN breaking news reports of men murdered by flying steaks in Arizona. :-)<P><BR>Gosh...what a tough place to be in. Don't know if you have been keeping up with Missy's situation either. I'll tell you, these men!!!! :-)<P> I almost hesitate to respond...only you know your husband best. I never took it that far as he or Missy's husband has...and I know we are all capable of anything.<P>THought I'd pass this on if you never read it...the James Dobson article from "Love must be Tough"...it was posted a few weeks ago. It might help...I don't know.<P>I guess us "cheating husbands" are probably more lenient on each other...feel sorry for one another...I don't know....not making excuses....anyway...glad there was no bombshells...<P>Here's the article thread: <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/003711.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/003711.html</A> <P><p>[This message has been edited by NoMas (edited July 20, 2000).]

Wow Allison, this is sounding really good for you! Let me tell you, my H said,just what TS is saying.In my H's time away during our separation he realized it was OW that couldn't compete w/me.He has said that he finally realized that he had everything and more(I'm the mother of his kids)than OW was, right in his own home.He says he realized it was just stupid and selfish and definitely not worth it.Depression didn't help him to think any clearer either,especially when OW was drooling over every word he spoke.That is why I think you need to handle H with tender loving care now. I think he's coming down off his fence.It might be time for you two to get away together for several days if not longer.It's important to project your positive outlook onto H right now,he's looking to you as a source of hope that this marriage can be recovered.<P>My H says that his biggest fear was that his A would always haunt us and that things would never be the same again,that it would always affect me somehow and be the "pea under the mattress" in our relationship.I have had to work very hard in recovery to be careful to maintain the right balance of getting what healing I need through conversations and not overwhelming him with "affair talk".Actually he's been very understanding and hasn't had too much trouble with being open and talking it through with me.H might be really worried about his mistake having lifetime effects.<P>One of the biggest things that helped H and I to get back on track was the dating and having fun together again.It really helped us to get those good feelings back again. It seems like H is wanting to spend more time with you,use that to your advantage to Plan A and make it even more safe for him.<P>You can be honest,Allison and tell him how much you hate the separation and how much you want things to be better and how much you would like to have a positive resolution to this.He probably needs to hear that.Why don't you ask him away for a weekend and see if he's ready for that.I think he is really missing you and just might need some encouragement to come all the way off that fence. <P>I know how frustrating their indecision is.I tried to take comfort in the fact that I too knew my H was a good man,and wanted to live a righteous and honorable life,but he was depressed and it was undeniably affecting him,his outlook and his decision making.He was hurting.I felt I had to be patient.It wasn't like my H was some arrogant,hurtful,abusive man that I was hoping would make a life changing turnaround. I knew the man my H was and it made it much easier to look at his pain and be understanding and patient.For my H,when he made baby steps in the right direction,positive reinforcement worked better than demanding he hurry up and stand straight and fly right,but believe me I wanted to scream at him to hurry up and do just that.<P>I think you can see your H is trying to make the first steps toward coming home.I say.Plan A a while longer.Good luck to you Allison and God's blessings to you and H.

Good to hear it wasn't as bad as it could have been, Allison.<P>So I have a question. If I'm not prying, could you please post what your answers were to his four questions, Hon?<P>I'm especially interested in the question where he asked you if you guys have a "Can't Live with or without each other" relationship.<P>Thanks!<BR>Jo<BR>

You guys are the best.<P>I don't know why but I feel like I've taken two steps backwards today. Strange.<P>Well, for some reason I can't pull up my thread, but the questions were answered (and I really have to shorten them) in about this way.<P>Why did I send him the card...he wanted to know what I was thinking when I decided to send it. I told him it was a very conscious descision (sp?). I went out looking for a card for him, not something I just happened upon while I was shopping. I told him I wanted him to know that he was in my heart and I was thinking about him, and what a good friend he is to me.<P>What did I think of last weekend? I told him that I felt great that he came home last weekend, that we spent time as a family. I slept for 14 hours Saturday (long story, had been to a friends funeral that day), and that if he was not here I could have never done that. Told him that he always has been accomodating to me in that way, taking the kids off my hands so I could do what I needed to do. He said he had a great weekend too, but at times found himself uncomfortable with being home, knowing he would leave Sunday.<P>jeez I'm long winded.<P>Next was...Where do you see us six months from now...I told him I hoped we'd be celebrating our 20th anniversary. BTW, he would not/could not answer the same 6 mo. question.<P>The can't live with/can't live without question...well, this was the kind of marriage my parents had. They married and divorced each other twice. They always loved each other, but just could not live together. My answer was...that that is not the kind of marriage I want. I do not believe in staying together for the kids, as I was raised in that kind of environment, and it sucked. We both agree (H and I) that we will not "settle" on a ho-hum relationship. Scary huh?<P>So, this is so long as usual, sorry about that. <P>You guys, as usual, have gotten me out of my funk today and back into hopeful territory. You know Chris...you are right. I am finding in Plan A that I am realizing that I can make it on my own...hey, my typing skills have certainly improved since I've been here...ought to be able to get a job doing something.<P>NoMas, you crack me up. I ordered pasta just in case...no knife needed. LOL<P>I was just so angry this morning, I guess a lesson of be careful what you ask for...I got myself into a mess asking for too much info about OW, and what I learn hurts me, but still makes me feel a little more in control, as I'm learning more about what makes H tick. I'm afraid he's just a skirt-chaser, and will always be though. Yeah NoMas...MEN! Sheesh.<P>Thanks to all...what would I do without 'ya?<P>allison

I gotta sign off...but did wamt to say if you feel he is depressed, you might want to check out the book "I don;t want to talk about it" about "hidden" depression in men.<P>G'night...<BR>

Hi Allison,<P>It sounds like your H is doing a lot of thinking, that's good right?! At least you know that when he is not with you, he seems to be thinking of you and your relationship.<P>I have really learned a lot from this thread and of course from others, too. I'm at that point where I want to know more about OW, but paying attention to the threads regarding it and I shouldn't be too curious; remember what happened to the cat? I guess, sometimes there is such a thing as "too much" info about OW. <P>H recently told me that "he is not a happy camper." He is sad that he hurt me the way he did, and has been thinking about and missing me. But, wants to be sure about his feelings and not just being lonely. He admitted to crying at night sometimes about his/our situation. He now seems to be open to counseling, where he wasn't before except to just appease me. Things are moving slowly, but at least it's moving in a good direction. Which is my point, you are moving in a good direction. Sometimes we are too close to see that.<P>Some people on here are absolutely hilarious! For awhile I stayed away, because the sharing was so depressing. But, on occasion there are some winners out there!!!<P>Hope you're feeling better, you should you know. Take care, blessings, and lots of hugs and kisses your way!!!<P>sdn<P>