Hello to all - it has been 3 months for us since Dday and almost 1 month since my husband returned home to "TRY". My question is- is it normal or typical for the returning spouse to be distant even cold? If they are then why are they there? And how true is their commitment? My husband is cool actually we go through wawes where I feel connected but lately it has gone back to cool again. One of his preaffair complaints was not enough sex. Now if I initiate he doesn't really seem to want to respond. He said the other night it makes him uncomfortable because he isn't really sure what he wants yet. If he isn't really sure what he wants then why did he return home? Is this a way of punishing me? Is this his way of saying he has one foot out the door? How many other people have experienced this? If I say I love you, he says it back. Never first. If I kiss him he kisses me but I feel uneasyness on his part. This is killing my feelings toward him. I am starting to feel like how much should one person take? His indecision and selfish behavior are major love busters for me. But am I just trying to push things so much? But when he says I'm TRYING and it sounds like that's the best he can do it hurts me. Any advice or comments would greatly be appreciated. <P> Kris

Dear Kris:<P>Sounds as if he's still in withdrawal from OW.<P>Hang tuff. Don't quit now. He's back home with you and the kids where he belongs. Remind yourself of this daily--MAKE THIS BE ENOUGH FROM HIM, FOR NOW. Continue to offer hugs and kisses...without expecting anything in return---yet.<P>If all goes as planned, once H gets through withdrawal, he'll be much more receptive to all your efforts. And, this is when he'll most likely start to return your affection.<P>If he's anything like my H, he won't even remember how distant, cold, and nasty he actually was during withdrawal. BTW, my H's withdrawal took about 2 months. But, when he got over OW and came out of the "fog", it was so apparent. He was SO READY to begin working on us...and it was SO WORTH all the frustration on my end.<P>At the end of the withdrawal, he was receptive to filling out Dr. Harley's questionnaires regarding emotional needs. Now, 8 months post d-day, we are both striving to meet each other's needs and spending the recommended 15 hrs/wk "together time". <P>Be patient. The time to delve into your needs will come...hopefully sooner than later. In the meantime, continue to meet his needs....and remember to be special to yourself (you need this for you now, too!).<P>Peace, ~Marie

ohmy-Marie - I'm not sure if what he is going through really is withdrawl because from what he claims it has more to do with if he thinks he and I can repair our marriage. From what he says it has more to do with his feelings toward me (more hurt)than anything to do with his 2x fling with 22 year old or his 1 month internet affair. He says those were just symptoms of how unhappy he was with us. It's funny I knew we had some issues but I never knew he was so unhappy with the total marriage package. However he does work with OW and she is preg. But he says we'll pay support and that he cares about what happens to her nothing more. Am I crazy or a punching bag or just having a bad case of PMS? Yesterday he took my wedding ring to be fixed (that was my request for my birthday) so that is a good sign. It just kills me when he says he's committed to "Trying" not committed to "us". Am I expecting to much too soon? I admitt I am getting impatient, frustrated, hurt feelings and ANGRY!!<BR> Kris

Dear Quakermom,<P>I am the betrayer. Lemme tell you what i think he is going through and all that..<P>I agree that he is in withdrawal. but since i do not know your situation I wonder at his faithfullness now. Is the OP out of the picture? IF she is then he needs time. Also, I assume you have read the principals here at MB. Plan A. PLan A. PLan A. I know that if my husband hadnot done plan A i would have ended up with OM.<P>Part of what makes him cold and withdrawn is that he probably feels very guilty and if this is the first time he has ever stepped out of his marriage then he also feels condimnation from ... himself.<P>I do not know how long the affair lasted. It could be ther are feeling he does notknow how to deal with. He is confused on all accounts in his life. Truley if you asked him which was was down you probably wouldnt get a real good answer.<P>Using Harley principals is truley the way to go. IF there is not any change in 6-8 months then something must bedone. plan B.<P>There is going to be many many days in which you feel like you are on a roller coaster. ONe day is good oneday is bad. It takes months and even years to rebuild a marriage. <P>I would recommend a couple of books for you and eventualy your husband. Torn Asunder(Dave CArder) and Surviving and Affair.. Harley.. both are available in christain book stores. <P>I wish the best for you .<P>mercy

Kris, my H has been very much the same way. He actually told me he didn't want to have sex. If I started something, he would, but he would never initiate. Now, 2 1/2 months after d-day, he is making small attempts to light the fire. So here we are. I hope that he is coming out of withdrawal. I hope that he was in withdrawal. Better there than lying to me about no contact with OW. We'll see how it goes from here. I hope that in 6-8 months things are much better. We have a trip to Las Vegas planned in November and I do so want it to be fun and as stressfree as possible. Our trip to Europe the week after d-day was rather strained.<P>He, too, says he is trying--but it is lacking that emotion. It is a trying out of duty not out of want. I hope the want comes too otherwise the marriage will never work. I have really been struggling. It is hard to ask him if he has had contact with OW. That is such a love buster. So, I just worry about it a lot and try not to let him know. Explain how we are supposed to be open and honest when being open and honest is a major love buster. Just some thoughts.

Lapeine - it sounds like our situations are similiar. I hate it. I did ask him to come home repeatedly but I thought once he came home it would be because he wanted to. I'm not sure if he is here out of sense of duty or what because he had told me previosly he would never try and stay married just for the kids. I am starting to think I should not have let him come back until he said he wanted to repair things as much as I wanted to not just "TRY" (that word makes me want to puke - this is real - my feelings are real !) At the time I just wanted him back and thought him being home would make it easier to repair things but he is home in body but not really in spirit. I am very discouraged and my ego which has been bashed enough - thank you very much - can't take much more of the lack of affection and sex. Now I know I"m supposed to be patient and consistent and I have been reading all of the right books but my tolerance is lessening and I don't know if I can do 6 - 8 months of this if he remains cold and distant. That is my greatest stumbling block -not the OW or her preg. I am very discouraged. We too are going away in Nov. but when I talk about it I sometimes get the feeling like he's not sure if he will even be here then. I don't know what to do<BR> <BR> Kris<P><p>[This message has been edited by quakermom321 (edited July 18, 2000).]

Littlemurph - we are usually in synch is this similiar to your situation?<BR> Kris

Kris, all I can tell you is hang in there. I asked my H if he didn't want sex with me or with anyone. He said he didn't really want sex with anyone. That made me feel a little better. Of course, it was hard to believe him since the trust is gone, but you have to start trusting somewhere. So I opted to believe that it wasn't just me. No sense in beating myself to death. For awhile I wanted to be better than she was sexually. My H never gave me the satisfaction of telling me whether or not that was true. So, I tend to think the worst. He must have enjoyed her more than me. Now, I try not to worry about it. I would like an occaisional, that was great. That was the best. We'll have to do that again. But, I hardly ever got that before, so I don't know why I should expect it now.<P>Our counselor told us that I needed to accept that for whatever reason, my H was in counseling and trying. For now, it shouldn't matter if it is out of duty or desire. As long as he is with me, I can try to show him that I am wanting to change to make the marriage work. Hopefully, he will come out of the fog and want to do the same with me. He did love me. I am convinced of that no matter what he says. I only hope that he will remember one day.<P>But to be on the safe side, be sure you get cancellation insurance for any reason on your trip. If it's just airline tickets that's okay. Those can be changed for a $75.00 fee. But if it is a package, be sure you pay extra and buy the insurance. Some insurances are only for medical reasons though so be careful.<P>Hang in there. I know I can make it 6 - 8 months. I'm a strong person who has great friends and family. I wonder if he can make it that long. You can make it that long. Make the decision and go for it. I have made the decision that I want this marriage to work. I love my H and as long as he is trying, I can't give up on him. That would just be giving in to what Satan wants me to do and I won't allow him to come in and destroy our lives. If you are a religious person, think about how Satan has control of your spouse. Everytime your S is cruel to you, think about how it is really Satan talking because he wants you to be discouraged. That what keeps me going and the hope that my H will one day come out of the fog, realize what a wonderful person I am, and start really working on making this a great marriage. Good luck to you. You can do it.

Kris, <BR>You know, I read your letter the other day and felt so bad for you. You are truly in my<BR>thoughts! I was trying to think, if I had to choose what the worst part of this whole thing was, it would have to be withdrawal. ( finding out about the affair is a VERY close second though!) And it certainly sounds like he is still in withdrawal. What an awful time. Nope, none of my needs were met either, guess that’s just how it goes. My husband got through the worst of it in about 8 or 10 weeks. I made the mistake after he started coming out of withdrawal of trying to rush the healing and the apologies and expecting more than he was able to give. He went back into a ‘semi-withdrawal’ after that...wanting to leave, withholding affection, not talking, the ANGER!!. Man, did I learn a lesson in patience....again! (There’s that precise, “feel this, say that” personality I think we share surfacing again!!! )So this time I realized that they determine the time and place of when<BR>to start ‘trusting us’. Makes me so mad, but there is no other way around it that I know of. And that’s when the Plan A starts to pay off, when they start opening up to you. <P>I truly believe that your husband will come through this with you. That he just needs more time. I’d bet you that if you gave your husband the option to leave right now, he wouldn’t. Certainly not something you do lightly, but I gave my husband that option<BR>when he was in his “need to leave, don’t know if I’ll ever love you, sorry I married you” phase. I had had it. Told him I wanted him to stay and work on it, but there wasn’t a ball and chain around his ankle, so go ahead and go if that’s what he wanted. He didn’t , deep down. So he stayed. And I know your husband came back to you already after leaving (more than once, wasn’t it?). This is where you tell yourself, “Actions speak louder than words”, because at this point, they most certainly do. He wants to work on it, he just doesn’t know where to start. <P>I still hear my husband say he’s TRYING! Man, I hate to hear that, too. Sounds so cold and sterile. And I can tell that a lot of what he does if out of duty or habit or whatever. Not from the heart. I just keep hoping, like Lapeine, that someday that fire will be lit. I truly think that working with the OW is drawing this all out. I read how some people here say that after they found out about their spouse’s A, the spouse is contrite, and immediately commits to working on the marriage. I WISH! I feel like we are just sort of the ‘right thing to do’ now, no fun, no desire, no spark......just sort of day to day, honest<BR>to goodness, hard labor. I kept trying to “warn” my husband that he was slowly killing my love for him, like you feel. Didn’t really matter, I have to say. He responds better to plan A-type behavior.<P>So, do what ever it takes to get through each minute of this. I have started a journal (I have exactly one entry!), prayed, talked to someone, gone shopping, baked my little heart out. Whatever! Keep those expectations down, appreciate the little things and be sure to give plenty of positive reinforcement, even when you’d rather strangle him!! My counselor told me to let myself get angry or frustrated or sad, whatever. Such simple, commonsense advice but I needed someone to tell me that and gosh darn it, that frustration and anger does pass. So, I am officially telling you to go ahead and be angry,and frustrated....you have every right. My point is that this WILL get better. I believe!

Lapeine - Yhank you. You are so strong and sometimes I feel like I am. today is just not one of those days. you said something I am going to try to remember about what your counselor said. Something to the effect of not worrying why your spouse has returned but that he has returned and is trying. I will keep trying too. Sometimes even if it feels like a one way street. Thank you again<BR> Kris

quakermom,<P>When my H moved back into our home after living with the OW, it was very tough. He exhibited the same emotions and attitudes that you describe. I believe him when he tells me that they (he and OW) were no longer having sex. However, what I did find out was that he was still seeing her and calling her. He told me that he needed for it to "play out." I told him I didn't think so, and so out the door he went. <P>I truly believe, however, that even if he *hadn't* been seeing the OW, that he would have been a little distant. He took a long time to make love to me again. I'm not sure what was going on in his heart and his mind, however, I can only assume that once you are acclimated to another person with respect to sex, it must be difficult to turn yourself back on to another person - even if it is your own spouse. <P>Hang tough, and keep your eyes open. Read the books that were suggested, they are excellent, particularly "Surviving an Affair." If a couple follows this method, I don't see how they could possibly go wrong!<P>blessings,<P>belld

Littlemurph - thanks again for the words of wisdom. We really have some connection don't we? It is hardest for me to do Plan A and receive no reinforcemnt other than the fact that he is here. I will try to be patient and strong. I am strong - that is what has gotten me this far with out going crazy (O.K. maybe a little crazy) Will he ever get out of withdrawl if he works with the OW everyday? Thankyou for saying you think we will come out of this together - I really need to hear that lately. However there are times lately that I look at him and think to myself - why am I doing this? I didn't feel like that before my resolve was strong I sincerely feel the lack of decision, affection and SEX arer slowly killing my resolve. Well I will keep trying but he better give me some sign soon. I know Patience!! Thanks again<BR>Belldandy - I find it hard to believe that it is hard to acclimatize yourself back to me if we've been together 23 years and he had a 2x fling with a 22 year old! During our initial confrontation he blurted out that it hadn't even been that good! I think it has more to do with his own mixed up feelings but like you said we'll never really know what they are thinking. I just know in order for me to have the resolve to keep going I need to feel like there is something coming toward me in return. Again I will try to be patient. Thanks<BR> Kris

Dear Kris,<BR>I will echo what everyone is saying about your H being in withdrawal...and to be patient. It IS a rollercoaster ride and there are days the ride is really really down! My H didn't want sex with me either(5 months without!) and I wondered if he ever would again - we are finally starting to make progress - he is talking to me and I finally feel that we are both committed and want to make our marriage better. I never thought he would discuss things, yet he is. I never thought he would agree to read SAA, but he has - everyone on this site kept telling me to be patient...baby steps - and they are so right! I truly believe that following Harley's principals - showing my H I loved him - allowed him to see that I am willing to make changes and that I can make changes. And, yes, I felt like a doormat, felt like I was doing all the work, my self esteem hit all time lows - but, I am beginning to see light at the end of the tunnel. So, please hang in there and get on here and vent away! Everyone here is so supportive and encouraging - I thank God every day for this site and for Dr. Harley's books...Do not give up hope.<BR>You are in my thoughts and prayers!<BR>Take care - A

Annc - Thank you for your words of support. I went back and read some of your posts and see that I am not alone in my struggle. I think I was so good about understanding what lead up to the affair (a lot of mistakes on my part) and am being so understanding about the OW preg. that I expect more from him in return. However I know it took a long time to get to this spot so I guess I have to have more patience than I have.

to all - are we supposed to just wait for spouse to initiate sex? Has anyone initiated and been rejected? My husband sends out those "I'm so tired" signals every night. My therapist says maybe he just feels numb from all that is happening and his own indesicion. I don't know but boy would I like him to put his arm aroung me or say "Ilove you" first instead of as an automatic response to something I say.<P><BR>

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Hi QuakerMom,<P>Oh, yes! Count me in as one who has been rejected!! The last time I tried, I seductively placed my hand on a part of his anatomy, only to be rebuffed with, "Don't even think about it!" Ouch. At that time, I said "Okay. You can let me know when you're ready". And, I'm still waiting.<P>All I can say is that it's them and not us. Doesn't do much to lessen the pain, though. I read something recently that I stumbled upon on a website. I think it's from a book (Dance of Love maybe?). I emailed it to my H, & now he's taken off on a mission to reconcile with his estranged mother. Outcome, still unknow. Anyway, it did help me put some of this into perspective. Here's a part of it:<P>"Almost any "problem" encountered in a Romantic Relationship is a symptom / effect of some deeper "problem" within our relationship with our self!  And we live in a culture where we are taught that the "right"/successful Romantic Relationship can make all those other problems go away!  Like, duh, no wonder we have problems with Romantic Relationships." <P>"In taking a look at our basic relationship with Romantic Relationships it is important to take note of how far out on the cause and effect spectrum it resides.  All of the relationships described in the third sentence in the above paragraph are in the cause realm in relationship to our Romantic Relationships.  In other words, not only does our basic relationship with our self, with life, with our concept of a God-Force have a profound affect on our Romantic Relationships - but our relationships with our own emotions, bodies, gender and sexuality are also cause that have effects/consequences/impact on our Romantic Relationships. Any problems/wounds/dysfunction we have in our relationship with our own gender (or sexuality or emotions, etc.) is going to effect our Romantic Relationships."<P>Is your H in any type of counseling?

Sidney- yes my husband is in counseling but it seems like they dwell on his anger and resentment towards me for my behaviors that led up to him questioninmg his feelings for me and the subsequent affair . The therapist told me (we see her individually at this point) he needs to deal with those issues if we are ever going to get past them but what it seems like to me is to keep his resentment live and picked at like a scab. thank you for your response. I'll look the book up<BR> Kris