I also think it has alot to do with how the affair ended or if it ever did. In my W case, the affair never ended and I never went to a plan B. Looking back on it I was being compared with the OM for 3 years and just did not measure up. She knew me inside and out and I was very predictable because of that knowledge. I essentially wore out my welcome. At first the plan A thing was nice to her probably but after a time even that was predictable and it gave the impression that I was weak and I lost that much more. SAA is true.... if the affair continues in any way go to a strict plan B.<BR>We are now living in different houses and her affair is thriving....<BR>Gentlemen, I hate divorce......

OK, I see a lot of downer posts here. Even if it's true -- so what. That simply means that we have more work to do, which just being on this site tells us we're very capable of doing. And, it means that there is a pattern to the "wall" wives erect when they decide that "it's over". I have the same experiences as SHA at home. Yet, I know without much doubt (there's always some) that my wife loves me dearly. Signs are stronger everyday that she's simply afraid now to admit it to herself, because she fears that she'll experience the same type of "love" I administered before this situation. <P>Point is, guys, where there's a pattern, there's a solution - a way to remedy the situation (hey, I'm the Ivy league engineer and MBA type, and don't believe in failure but rather solutions). Think "NO OBSTACLES" and keep that resolve. <P>Also, has anyone (SHA perhaps) done any research on exactly what made those women who have fallen in love again with their husbands do so? There has to be an answer here. If anyone knows where I can begin to search for this key (more likely key(s)) then point me in that direction and I'll keep you updated. <P>Unless there's abuse or something, I really believe that most of our wives really love us dearly, but are afraid given the past combined with how good it may feel to have outside experiences. It may be very difficult to let that go. Let's find out.<P>SamH

Sir Hurts Alot<P>I sympathise with you deeply. It must be so difficult to pour so much in to the relationship with so little return<P>You mention in your profile that the OM was still around as late as September. If this is still the case and your W is still involved then a lot of your efforts are wasted or inefficient according to the Harley principles.<P>I know in my case that with the OM still in the scene it takes 100 fold of love unit deposits to have the effect that 1 unit did when we first met.<P>regards<BR>Fairenough

K, I believe you said it perfect. I consider myself a success! Sure the marriage is not (yet!) and my Wife is somewhere?!?!, but I am gonna "Survive An Affair!" Doesn't mean I'm happy about it, but I can heal & make myself into something most women can only dream about! <P>fairenough, I don't agree with this viewpoint, at least in my case. I personally would like everyone to know what I have accomplished if only for the fact that I may be of even a little bit o' help to someone else. Failings on my part? Sure there were/are a few, but I'm learning.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Chris<P>I guess I m just trying to justify why we don't see many male success stories in this forum and I am speaking more on a philosophical basis rather than personal. <P>There is probably an element of wishfull thinking as well as I really want the issue resolved favourably between my W and I.<BR> <BR>Having said that since the issue was raised I notice there has been quite a few successes posted here.<P>Your resolve having read your profile is exemplary. I'm sure with your determination and patience all will work out in the end for you and the reward will be yours.<P>Take care<BR>Fairenough<P>You are one of those successes

Fairenough,<P>thanks for reminding me about the cave! I'd love to see my H's cave....must be well equipped, cuz he's always eager to return.<BR>He deals with things for about a day and then thinks everything is fine again because he took the time to deal with it <BR>We're working on him being a maled betrayed success story, but my wall is up and he's doing almost all the right things, but it's hard...after so many years of us talking about our needs, he always goes back to no meeting mine while I keep trying. I'ts frustrating and I guess you reach a point where your heart can only take so much. I do feel like maybe it's too late. Maybe it's just that it takes so long for some men to really realize that there's a problem, by the time they do, a lot of damage is done.<BR>Who knows, but there's always hope, and yes, even if our marriages don't work out, we are all successes. Every experience in life (good or bad) leaves us with a positive lesson.

<B>fairenough</B><BR>Thanks for your thoughts.<P>I'm aware that with the OM around; things are very difficult. I'm also aware that I can't make that decision for her. <P>I have spoken with a counselor and have sent in a request to talk to Dr. K....I mean Steve Harley . I am interested in his perspective on my situation. <P>I am closing in on Plan B if things stay as they are. One the one hand, my efforts have not gone unnoticed. My relationship with my wife is so much better than it was a year ago. I am seeking the Holy Grail of marriage now - maybe I'm shooting too high. I don't want the kind of marriage I used to have. I want it all. That's my quest. That's why I give like I do. I now KNOW how to be a great husband - I simply want my wife back. <P>Plan B scares the poop out of me because that will mean lost contact with my children. It will mean their image of mom and dad will change. It will mean a whole bunch of things. So, I continue on my path to try and pull my wife away emotionally from this guy. <P>SHA

Hey guys!!<P>I am right there with LS...I came to the board about the same time as he did and our wives even had their affairs the same week!!<P>Status: We are better now then we ever have been. I know what her needs are now and I am meeting them. She says now that she has never been so happy. It has been 9 long months of ups and downs but we are going strong and growing everyday.<P>She will even just tell me that she is so sorry out of the blue now.<P>It has not been easy and there have been some slip-ups but it is worth it. Just hang in there and keep posting. Guys like LS helped to save my life and this board is a godsend.<P>Now I just use it for maintenance therapy.<P>Hang in there....

I am a betrayed male and my wife and I are doing great in recovery. I am meeting her needs and she is meeting mine. We are also expressing our love in love languages that the other needs and wants to hear things in. Sounds corny but by God it is working!

What kind of odds do we have if we both betrayed. In my mind my affair was ok because I didn't have a "relationship". In my mind hers was not ok because she did "think" she had a "relationship". Thank God she has come to her senses. Now I have to deal with mine. God gave us another chance to build something better than what we were living before discovery. Why do we men try to live to a "double standard". Two wrongs don't make a right, but we now have a love that makes our relationship right.<p>[This message has been edited by CRC (edited December 08, 1999).]

I think it was on Harley's article that the woman leave because they fell they have lost their "security" whatever that may mean to them and that the home is no longer theirs. Its kind of like birds I guess, the nest is soiled so its time to move on.<P>But remember, statistic have opposites, so never give up hope.

Well I have a good recovery story for being the betrayed one. I confess mypart as not meeting here needs, last 2 yrs or so...she was lonely, she is also very naive. She not out hunting but OM comes along says all the right things, they have two meetings, no sex, but hugs, kissing, he tries but she says NO!,<BR>thank God! the following weekend they spend hours on the phone....I am at home somewhere!<BR>I get suspicious, read her email and HOLY SMOKES! I got a problem. A third meet was in the process, but God allowed me to discover it in time before the sex. But mental sex had occured by admition, and all of the other emotional stuff, i think it hurt as bad as a full involved affair. <BR>She wanted to fix us, the OM bowed out and did not pursue, he was married and lots to loose if his W found out. OM is a dad on same sports team as our son! We will be around each other for 3 months! at least. A friend told us to read The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman, It changed everything! Get it!<BR>I also read Harley's book, His needs, her needs, also very helpful. and of course we got back into our Bibles where we should have been in more of. Counseling with our Pastor, and somefriends who have been throughit, we have the best marriage we have had in 19 yrs!<BR>Praise God. I am still suspicous, worried about the continued contact with the OM, He is cooperating and remorseful too. Time will tell if he is truthful. I am watching close.<BR>So there is one more success story. Having Christ at the center helps too.

OK GUYS,<P>Going out on a limb of an artificial Christmas Tree on sale at Sears that fell off the truck and was hit by 14 cars before being retrieved, and the fact that I am here and am wearing body armour but,<P>Why is it that when Guys who score alot are considered STUDS.<P>And when women do the same damn thing, they are SLUTS?<P>The book "Divorce Busters" follows Wierd Al's stupid lyrics, Yes, I'm still hooked on him, says about the 180 degree turn around. "Everything you know is wrong" Parallel universe or too many silver bullets. You decide! <P>I have to believe that it is the combination of the Holidays, Seasonal Affect Disorder and the truth that our S's have no clue to life.<P>Going night night. Long day again. Getting fuzzy.<BR><P>------------------<BR>"It's not over till we say it's over! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? H*ll no!" Blutto...Animal House 1984<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P>

Check out this survey by Peggy Vaughan--it may give you some encouragement:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.dearpeggy.com/results.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.dearpeggy.com/results.html</A> <p>[This message has been edited by Sherrilynn (edited December 08, 1999).]