Guys and gals I'm confused. All my life I've tried to be a good man. I strive for honor, integrity, and justice. I'm not perfect, never claimed to be (my wife always gets mad at me and says "You're just perfect aren't you!"). What's wrong with trying to be perfect? I'll never reach it, but in the process I will be the better man for it. Knowing this, one could understand how I look at things... I look for the good in things... the justice of things. When I hear about a pervert molesting a little girl... I don't think that poor guy he must have had a horrible childhood... no, I think that [censored], they need to lock his [censored] up and keep him away from children. I am a Christian. I care deeply for God's people; however, I believe actions have consequences. <BR>As such, if you've read any of my earlier postings you will know that D-day for me was about 9 days ago. My wife is infatuated with another man and goes to see him almost everyday... sometimes arriving home around 5am. Of course she says I'm to blame because I never met her needs that I failed to be a good husband. I temporarily removed myself from the situation to 'give her some space' and to keep my heart from being ripped out; however, now I am around as much as possible to cover any legal issues relevant to 'abandonment' should we pursue a divorce. Her delemma is that she MUST see if 'he is the one'; however, the poor soul doesn't want to make the 'worst mistake of her life.' She desires a seperation allowing her to get her own place while she 'pursues' loverboy and then if it doesn't work out (which I do not believe it will) to have me waiting back at home ready to accept her back with open arms. Now mind you... the vast majority of our friends, many of whom are men that she admires, think she is totally wrong! In fact I would wager that the majority of third party individuals looking at our relationship would agree that she is wrong. Of course, my poor wife just can't understand why everyone is mad at her. She yells 'they didn't have to be married to you!' <BR>You see, it is true that I did not meet all of her needs; however, it's a two way street.. she didn't meet mine either!<BR>However, I've always loved her, TRIED to meet her needs as best possible, and been honorable towards her. The truth is most people wonder how the hell I've lasted this long in this marriage; however, I deeply desire to get counseling and restore our marriage... alas it takes two to tango.<BR>Being the man that I am, I am confused as to why the victim continues to be victimized in situations such as mine. I read the books and learned to 'be strong and keep depositing those love tokens' even though I am being totally disrespected, continuously lied too, have to worry about legal manueverings behind my back, and the well-being of my children (she's taking them around the jerk now... guess she wants to see if everyone meshes ok). Actions required to endure the implementation of these 'plans a/b' go against the very fiber of my being. They make me feel weak and incompetent.<BR>The truth is it's not right. What she is doing is WRONG... pure and simple. My faith in the Lord is stronger than ever. He's made me who I am today and I feel the 'evil' of this situation pound against my spirit.<BR>Thus, I see only one of the following paths to take:<BR>1.) We both direct ALL of our efforts into OUR marriage, get counseling, and make it work by seeking God's guidance.<BR>2.) She pursues loverboy, I divorce her butt and lay this burden at God's feet. If it's meant to be He will see that she comes back one day desiring to restore our marriage... in the meantime I will work to be the best man and father that I can be. If I meet someone else after my self-prescribed 1 to 2 year minimum wait to date anyone else, then so be it.<P>I will not be a victim anymore. The true victims as always are the children. THEY are the ones who need my love tokens... they're going to get them.<P>Shame, shame, shame. I'm not sure I'm going to want her back when her fantasy comes crashing all around her. I pray that the Father will sustain my ability for compassion and empathy.<P>Thanks for your prayers.

father:<P>You're 9 days into it right now---the rollercoaster is going up and down so fast, that I'm betting that you have no clue as to where you are. Or where you'll be tomorrow.<P>The best advice that I can give you is to:<P>1. Move home.<P>2. Immediately get into counseling with Steve Harley. You'll find that it doesn't "take two to tango"---you can work on the marriage all by yourself, with amazing results. No matter how great a husband or father you think you've been, I'm guessing that your wife doesn't see it this way. Steve will help you eliminate lovebusters (disrespectful judgements could be an issue---they were my major one, and I'm "perfect" too).<P>3. Start Plan A with Steve's guidance. Your wife is looking for justification to go to her lover. By "meteing out justice" as you indicate in your post, you're rolling out a red carpet to him. There is no "justice" in a marriage. You have no "rights". You married your wife, for better or worse. God does not like divorce. You need to let this (justified) anger wash over you, but not affect your behaviors to your wife. If you punish her, she will leave (and in her mind, she'll be justified). And she'll take the kids too (no justice for fathers, in most cases).<P>You can fight this with love and compassion, and do it with honor and without the "doormat" stigma that some believe is a hallmark of Plan A. You can let your wife know that you don't agree with the affair. You can try to negotiate away her visits to the OM (or her taking the kids)---but do so without anger or malice.<P>If you "divorce her butt" without attempting to heal this marriage using every conceivable strategy you can---then you'll be failing your children just as much as she is. "Divorce" as you put it, is exactly how a victim would act. You don't want to be a victim, right??? Call Harley and let him help you make a plan to fight this (888-639-1639).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fatherof2:<BR><B> I believe actions have consequences.<BR> <BR>My wife is infatuated with another man and goes to see him almost everyday... sometimes arriving home around 5am.<P>Her delemma is that she MUST see if 'he is the one'; however, the poor soul doesn't want to make the 'worst mistake of her life.' She desires a seperation allowing her to get her own place while she 'pursues' loverboy and then if it doesn't work out (which I do not believe it will) to have me waiting back at home ready to accept her back with open arms. <P>Thus, I see only one of the following paths to take:<BR>1.) We both direct ALL of our efforts into OUR marriage, get counseling, and make it work by seeking God's guidance.<BR>2.) She pursues loverboy, I divorce her butt and lay this burden at God's feet. If it's meant to be He will see that she comes back one day desiring to restore our marriage... in the meantime I will work to be the best man and father that I can be. If I meet someone else after my self-prescribed 1 to 2 year minimum wait to date anyone else, then so be it.<P>I will not be a victim anymore. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>fatherof2, based on what you have written, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I believe in marriage and in "for better or worse", but there is a limit. I don't believe that it is healthy for anybody to have a marriage that has been damaged beyond repair. How after some of the things that the betraying spouse does and says does one just "forget" all of that and fall back in love. The affair alone will be there for the rest of ones life, but to add insult to injury(openly continuing an affair) is something that I could never get over, whether I continued to be married or not, and what kind of marriage is that when at least one of the partners has that kind of resentment?<P>I am starting to become a firm believer that there are many people on this board that are afraid, afraid to be alone, afraid that no one else will want them, afraid to face reality, so afraid of these things that they are willing to take as much abuse as their spouses dish out, play the "doormat" role to "win" them back and state they do it because their spouses are in some type of "fog." Sounds to me that people have come up with their own fantasies to justify their own fears and insecurities, no marriage is worth all of that. <P>My wife supposedly has had no contact with the OM since before discovery, which was July of last year, and it has been a roller coaster ride like I have never experienced before. If it is as hard as it is has been with someone who says they want the marriage to work and has cut off all contact with the OP, then to try to make a marriage work with someone who openly continues with an affair is beyond comprehension for me. For me, forget Plan B to protect my love, my love would be destroyed once my W had decided to continue to be with the OM.<P>Sorry to go off on a tangent, just wanted to let you know that while you are going through tremendous pain right now, I do understand what you are saying and that I understand that everyone is different and has their own personal limits, and if these are your limits, then I am in total agreement with you.<P>God may hate divorce, but even Jesus stated that save for "adultery" men should not divorce their wifes. An affair is adultery.<P>

FA:<P>You're misquoting Jesus (through Mark, I believe). I don't have a bible handy, but I believe the quote is that Jesus is firmly against divorce on any grounds, but in the case of adultery it "is allowed through the law of Moses because of the hardness of men's hearts".<P>Fatherof2 probably has little clue right now to what his limits are (I know I didn't 9 days post discovery). I suggest Steve's counseling because he's a great coach and motivator, and he can provide "training" to increase your limits as you deal with the affair. 9-days post affair is like being in a dark alley after Mike Tyson has mauled you (from behind)---he's just getting up groggy, and he's probably struggling to find that part of his heart (or ear ) that got ripped out. Wait before making life-altering decisions. In addition, fatherof2's name indicates his children are a primary source of joy in his life. He takes a huge chance of losing them by pursuing divorce now---and risks very little by pursuing marital reconciliation, even against these odds.

K - get a Bible, there was no misquote, nor misunderstanding. Matthew 5:32 <P>I'm sure fatherof2 has a better idea of what his limits are better than both of us. As far as divorcing, I don't believe fatherof2 stated that he was about to do that, nor did I tell him to, I simply let him know that based on what he initially posted, I am in agreement with him. Divorce was one of two options that he layed out, and again, he knows what his limits are, and if he reaches the limits that he has and chooses divorce, how can anyone be anything but supportive of that? Not everyone believes in being married at any costs, nor can handle being married at any costs.<BR>

<BR>Fof2,<P>Please listen to K. I've studied the family court system and I need to repeat this: The fact that you moved out of the home CAN and WILL be held against you in a custody decision. You MUST move back home for your children's sake.<P>K is also right about you not making any rash decisions right now. 9 days into this and you're thinking of packing it in? C'mon, get your bearings straight before doing something like ending the marriage.<P>Bystander

FA:<P>Speaking from my experience, 9 days after discovery, I had no idea what my limits were. I felt very much like fatherof2 is expressing himself here: what's going on, who am I married to, I tried to be a good husband, my kids are going to be devestated...<P>If you told me at day 9 that I would have been able to deal with an ongoing affair without "retaliation" or "punishment", that I would have willingly separated from my wife, that I would have been able to handle her being pregnant from the OM, or that we could have successfully reconciled after all that---I'm sure you can guess what my reaction would have been.<P>As an former athlete (and in general, a highly successful person), you really don't know what your limits are until you're pushed.<P>Fatherof2 just got shoved bigtime, from behind. It's my belief that it's in his best interests to attempt to reconcile the marriage---if for no other reason then at this point to maintain physical custody of his cherished children. The fact of the matter is that he can also have a very loving and very sorry wife and a wonderful marriage---but there's no doubt about it---he's in for a hard fight and a lot of pain.<P>But divorce brings all the fighting and pain too---and (usually) with poor outcomes for the people involved. The "price" of him not being married is the custody of his two children (a pretty damn big cost). The "price" of him trying to work through this is roughly a year to two of his life and $3750 for counseling (once every 2 weeks for 2 years with Steve). Based on what I've personally experienced, and what others who have gone through a "quick divorce", I'm estimating that the emotional cost is pretty much the same, but at the end of two years (assuming that fatherof2 is unsuccessful), he'll be emotionally in a much better place.<P>Honestly---when I give advice here, I always weigh a cost/benefit analysis of what I'm "preaching". Always. It might seem like I only look up pages 47, 112, and 190 in SAA and quote Harley---but I've had the opportunity to live this nightmare and use these tools successfully.<P>And I'll have to look up Matthew tonight---I'm under the impression that the Roman Catholic church forbids remarriage post divorce because of these passages, but it's been a long time since I studied the NT verses on this issue.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fatherof2:<BR><B><BR>Thus, I see only one of the following paths to take:<BR>1.) We both direct ALL of our efforts into OUR marriage, get counseling, and make it work by seeking God's guidance.<P>2.) She pursues loverboy, I divorce her butt and lay this burden at God's feet. If it's meant to be He will see that she comes back one day desiring to restore our marriage... in the meantime I will work to be the best man and father that I can be. If I meet someone else after my self-prescribed 1 to 2 year minimum wait to date anyone else, then so be it.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>K - If you actually read what has been written you will see that no one has said that a divorce is being pursued, it is one of two stated options. There is no "retaliation or punishment" in these statements. Being an athlete or "highly successful person" has nothing to do with having one's <B>own personal limits</B>, nothing at all. What you can handle, another may not, or what another may be able to handle, you may not. The two options layed out by fatherof2 seem pretty rational to me, either both parties work on the marriage, or if she pursues another, divorce, after over a year since my own discovery, after time has allowed me to "gather" my thoughts and emotions, I can honestly say that I would do the same thing that fatherof2 has stated, either we both work on the marriage or divorce. <P>As far as the Bible passage, who said anything about the Roman Catholic Church, and it's faith or beliefs?

FA:<P>I'm Roman Catholic, so I've studied the bible through the Catholic faith---and that's always an issue, because Catholic's have added lots of "extra" stuff. I can't keep some of the origins of the "rules" straight.<P>My statement about limits are that you don't really know your limits until you reach to them (and then reach beyond). The reference to athletics and success are personal experience that has come from hitting "preconcieved" limits, and then moving far past them.<P>The two options are rational. But from how this affair has occurred, it's unlikely that his wife will go to counseling. He's the enemy right now, and he needs to change that. So, based on his options (and the only two that you can "consider", in your experience), he's going to divorce (assuming he knows of no other options). Divorce will risk his physical custody of his children---although if he moves back and she wants to move out---he should definitely offer to take care of the kids at home while his wife pursues "loverboy". This would make a stronger case for custody. The option of an ultimatum of joint counseling or else doesn't usually work unless the affair isn't very serious (again, this is my observation, based on several other works). One contributing factor to high divorce statistics is because people don't know how to successfully work through a difficult situation like an affair in such an intimate relationship like marriage. It's akin to putting an arm back on after it was chainsawed off.<P>The strongest chance (IMO) is the outlined one where he gets home, gets a supporter and coach for surviving this affair, and starts making "plan A" progress. Best chance of winning. Lowest risk. It's a different option. The marriage might still not make it, but I don't see a major downside.

Hi Fatherof2...<P>Let me suggest that you consider a third option...let this thing blow over, and then see if you cannot BOTH work on the marriage together.<P>Sure, she is dead wrong. I'll give you that, no arguments. You are in the right...but, you can easily end up in the right, divorced, with 2 devastated kids.<P>It is hard not to feel like a doormat or victim, and it would be easier to throw out an ultimatum. However, the truth is that you need to decide what you really want. In my case, I decided I really wanted to build a new marriage with my H, and to keep our 2 kids in a solid home. I knew that in my H's state of confusion and "in-love" with OP...an ultimatum was likely to backfire, and that he was not yet in a state to work equally on the marriage. So, I worked on Plan A, talked to Steve a couple of times, and held on. It worked.<P>Nine days is pretty early. Think it over before you act, OK?<P>Hang in there--<P>Kathi <P>

I'd have to agree with <B>K</B>, my dear friend.<P>He knows of what he speaks...<BR>...and has been one of my mentor especially through my early stages...<BR>...and he has a success record to prove it.<P>Your marriage may not be saved...<BR>...your eternal life will mean more.<P>Do move back home...<BR>Do consider a stronger Plan A...<BR>... forgive 70 times 7 times<BR>Don't get sucked into an <B>early</B> "shaking the dust off your sandals"...<BR>Seek fortitude and courage...<P>You're so early in this...<BR>...a short few steps back for you are in order.<BR>Some guidance (through MB counseling perhaps)...<P>And seek out, in all honesty, the Father's will...<BR>Not what you think His will is.<P>Love and protect your children...<BR>...They will see in you... the <B>only</B> strong faith-filled parent... but only if you don't give up!<P>Prayers to you brother...<BR>It will be a long struggle...<BR>...if you think it is you or not!<P> <P>Jim

Thanks to all who are responding to this posting. I admit it is early in the affair to be discussing divorce; however, I do not come to this thought lightly. I know my wife, she does tend to be a selfish individual prone to not consider others affected by her actions. I've always been bothered by this, and pointed it out to her several times (she said I made her think she was evil... he shows her that she is not... maybe so?) Basically, I realize now that our relationship was not healthy for either one of us... I believe the key components we were missing were openness and honesty. I've always loved her... I always will. <BR>My delemma is that to pursue plan 'A' I see described in many postings, I have to sacrifice myself to a degree I believe is unhealthy. Right now I fear my wife is hell bent on starting anew with loverboy in an addictive fashion. In a way she wants me to be happy, as long as my happiness does not dictate that I interfere with her new desires. We talked and I let her know that I was 'educating' myself about the legal aspects of a possible divorce. It upset her that I was considering divorce so soon... I know she is confused and desires to have her cake and eat it too; however, my gut is that she will pursue him no matter what. I get the feeling that she needs me to be on the ropes a certain length of time while they work out the details as to how they will proceed. My mentioning divorce threw a wrench in the works and thus she started giving me the impression that maybe there was hope... she said she would consider going to counselling next week; however, she needs space and needs me to stay away from home until Tuesday of next week. (I will probably grant her that wish due to the fact that the kids will be with me during this time. Honestly, I will probably 'drop by' to get a few things at least one time during this interval just to check things out.) After giving me the feeling that there might be some hope... she said she was going to stay the night at her mom's and that I could stay the night with the kids at the house. I said sure. She left, met loverboy, then spent the night with him (yup, I had her watched... glad I did... let's me see the blatant deception at work here). She says she hasn't had sex with him... that he is really just a GOOD friend who is helping her figure out things. I saw open affection, and her entering his home, so go figure. Either way, this is my point...<P>Odds are highly that she is going to pursue loverboy. This will probably entail her either divorcing me or just moving out, buying her new home, and continuing the affair. I think she wants to get out on her own, date him, date me, figure out what she wants, then choose. Or it may just all be him... who knows. The only chance I will have is when all this falls apart. Thus the plan A would be me just being the nice guy during all this, making love deposits... humm, let's just envision this... I'm home watching the kids, she comes home with loverboy, they go in the back room, come out 30 minutes later, and say were going to a movie... well hell, I better not perform any love busters so being the good ol plan A man I say... OK Yall be careful, give the wife a peck and send them on their way ...<BR>I know I'm grossly exagerrating but this whole dang thing is so crazy... so surreal.<P>Believe me, I will not give up on my marriage that easily unless my wife gives up on it that easily. As I said my only chance will be if and when her fantasy world falls apart. I understand the need to not 'love bust' and to make 'love deposits' but to make deposits to the degree lover boy is I would have to sacrifice all that I hold dear about myself... respect, honor, and dignity. In truth she would probably view me as weak and just use the situation to advance her desires.<P>We will only survive if she comes back to the marriage truly seeking reconciliation... not because she flunked out with loverboy. I can give a great abundance of love, but I need to know that it is genuinly desired and received. I will not be settled for as second best. I deserve and demand more than that. If she is sincere, I will forgive her and give my ALL for her. Many may think I'm being selfish, not sacrificing for the kids... but in truth I'm being honest and making the best of the hand I've been dealt. I've looked at this from all angles and in my heart I know I can forgive and go on with almost any of the possible ends. If she goes with loverboy there are two possible results I would desire:<P>1.) She sees that loverboy cannot meet her needs any better... realizes that I am sincere in my desire to find a way to meet her needs and reconcile our marriage... and comes home with a willing heart on her part. A bumpy road would ensure but I know my love for her would see me through it.<P>2.) Loverboy turns out not to be such a bad guy... actually helps her become a better person... they are happy together and get married... my wife is a good mother (she's just screwed up right now) and I would not think of keeping the children away from her... I would want things relatively split fairly with her receiving primary care of the kids. I would seek to be true friends with both of them for the sake of my children and all involved and be the best father ever for my kids.<P>Anyway, the majority of this is out of my control. I will proceed with a pseudo plan A, make love deposits whenever possible; however, I will not sacrifice that which I know is right just to appease her. God gave me this desire to seek truth, love, honesty, and honor. I will not allow it to be violated. I trust Him to show me the way. <P>I believe that she will not voluntarily analyze the situation and decide that it is wrong and pursue that which is right. It's going to take her fantasy world self-destructing before I will have a shot. That may require a divorce... who knows. I do not plan on pursuing a divorce anytime soon... I will try to get us into counseling... I will TRULY love her, not be deceptively holding back my true feelings just so I don't upset her, but by telling her I do not agree with what she is doing, it is wrong, selfish, and destructive to the children and any future relationship we may have. No matter what I told her I will always love her and that I am here if she needs to talk. I said if she pursues loverboy I cannot guarantee her that I will be here should she desire to come back. Everytime she forsakes the family my heart is torn... I do not like viewing my wife in this light. Reality is reality... I would never have thought she could do this... I do not like people of this caliber.<P>Please pray for us.

fatherof2, I will definitely keep you in my prayers.<p>[This message has been edited by Koming Klean (edited July 20, 2000).]

Sounds pretty good...one comment to add...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I understand the need to not 'love bust' and to make 'love deposits' but to make deposits to the degree lover boy is I would have to sacrifice all that I hold dear about<BR>myself... respect, honor, and dignity.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>And, no one is saying you should do that. Plan A is NOT a competition btwn you & loverboy. It is simply being a good person to be with, working on your relationship skills (eliminating all those LB, etc., ) so that when the affair does fall apart, she can see that you are sincere and willing to improve...making the idea of recommiting to the marriage seem like a good one.<P>Hang in there...<P>Kathi

I understand exactly how you feel and I think that you have a good idea as to what you need to do, good luck to you, and you are definitely in my prayers.<P>

fatherof2,<P>You have my prayers, as does anyone else in your predicament. God does not like divorce, that is true. However, when asking myself what God wanted me to do about my situation and after praying about it for months, I finally woke up one day with this thought in my head: "God helps them who helps themselves." You have to be willing not only to help your W and your marriage, but YOURSELF.<P>Go to Plan B. Go directly to Plan B. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200 (or whatever it is these days, given the increased cost of living!). You have done everything that you can to *try.* Now it is time to cut your W loose and let her sink or swim. Write the Plan B letter, and adhere to it.<P>Bystander is right ... if you abandon your home, it *will* be held against you in court. Possession is 9/10 of the law, and sadly enough, that applies to custody of children as well. It saddens me to see the betrayed move out of their own homes in order to give their spouses free reign and complete freedom to have an affair. It is your home. You did not have an affair. You are the one who belongs there. You should have custody of the kids. Seek legal advice, re., temporary orders and temporary custody. I know, this is very dramatic. But you must do what is right for the children, and for yourself first. By doing these things and NOT enabling your W, you are helping *yourself.* And you are helping her, by not enabling her destructive behavior.<P>Good luck & God bless,<P>belld

fatherof2,<BR>I'm in your shoes exactly except she hasn't taken my 2 children to meet the [censored]. My D-Day was 1 month ago. One day you miss her and are in so much love with her it is impossible not to think of waiting for her, while the next day you see that you deserve much better life than this and you know there is a woman out there that would not only appreciate the love you have to offer but reciprocate it as well. This may not be daily swings in emotions it could easily be hourly. Because I'm still so new at this myself my only advise to you is don't act hastily. develope a time frame in your mind as to how long you will wait. Seek the counseling and get on some kind of brain candy. It helps to see clearer. Start working on yourself. I've discovered a bunch of my shortfallings that allowed her to go to the [censored]. I'm not correcting them for her though. I am moving to correct my personality flaws for myself, so that I may be able to lead a more rewarding life. That includes becoming more spiritual and depositing all the love units into my children as possible. I've given my wife a timeframe(in my mind) and as time goes by I will no doubt grow futher from her and as that takes place I will become more attractive to her. Don't be a victum around her, and don't be angry with her anymore, just go on with your life. You are in control. I know it is so very hard. 9 days ago you found out that everything you've worked for and built the past X number of years has been tourched, you probably did not see it comming. I have found that the days I go to the counselor that I feel much better about myself and where I'm going. He helps guide me in my personal reconstruction.<P>I know for a fact that if my wife makes it back in time, or the next woman I marry, I will be able to provide an atmosphere where there will be a near bliss. I understand the Harley principals. Understand that Plan A is not neccessarly "doormat" If you take care of yourself and love everyone as Jesus would hope that we all do, then your wife will snap out of it and realise the distruction she has caused, If she doesn't than you will be better off without her anyway. <P>Be patient with yourself and her, give yourself some time and know you can't fix this. All you can do is work on yourself.<P>My prayers are with you and we are in the same boat.<P>jason

All I sincerely want to thank you for your caring words. For those of you out there going through the same thing you are in my prayers also. God has given me peace in my heart, I'm going to stay the course I described... strong yet understanding. <P>On the lighter side of things... <BR>Sure is a hell of a way to lose weight!

fatherof2 (and fellow brother in Christ), <P>As a man who has been in your shoes, and a father of 4, I know exactly what you are going through. The emotionally pain and suffering is almost overwhelming at times. <P>I suffered through watching my wife continue on in an affair almost one year after I found out. In the process, sought out to win her back in the face of extreme adversity. To quote her from many months ago "I hate the way you've changed. Why don't you go back to the way you used to be!" <P>Why did she say those things? becuase she was looking to justify her behavior. She wanted me to give her reasons to leave and end our marriage. My wife is a Christian too, but she got caught up in a sin that has a tremendous and addictive hold on people. You can help break that unholy bond. And you don't have to compromise your beliefs or your self respect in the process. <P>You mentioned that a lot of this is out of your control. NOT SO. You can take control through personal change. Have you heard the saying "If you do what you've always done, you'll get to where you've always been"? Well, something about your personality (i.e. perfectionist nature) is a love buster to your wife. Living with honor and integrity is not a love buster. You need to do some soul searching to figure out what it is exactly that upsets your wife. <P>I am very much like you. I live honestly with integrity in persuit of doing what is right. But, I lost focus in my marriage. I committed a horrible sin by neglecting my wife. God used this event in my life to change me into a better man and a more loving husband. <P>I used to think I'll just lay this mess at God's feet and let Him handle. Don't worry about stepping on God's toes. He desires active participation in healing marriages. You and your wife both need to change. <P>I suggest you read all you can on infidelity and marriage. I follow a basic approach called BEST (Bless my wife, Edify my wife, Share (talk) to my wife, and Touch (non-sexual) my wife EVERY DAY. It took me a long time to work up to where I am today, but it has produced wonderful results in healing my marriage. <P>fatherof2, you can heal your marriage. You can help pull your wife back from the abyss. Some people confuse loving behavior with being weak, but God can use your loving behavior to soften hearts and mend marriages. <BR>I knew in my heart I had to give everything I had physically and emotionally to try and save my marriage. I could not look back with any regrets. I couldn't live with "What if I ...". After 18 months, my marriage is healing. The om (fart in the wind is what I call him), is fading away. My wife is finding love for me again. We are great friends and she loves our marriage and has thanked me for not giving up on her. <P>Give your wife every reason to choose you. Stay together - marriages can't heal if you're separated. You can't make her love you, you can only help her realize she still does. <P>God bless, <P>SHA<P>------------------<BR>There is only one happiness in life, to love and be loved.

Fatherof2:<P>Hurts doesn't it...but you can stand there in you righteous indignation and scream and holler how wrong it is until you are blue in the face and it's not going to change a thing, in fact it will probably just reinforce what your wife has already decided to do.<P>Sure, you can divorce her, if she doesn't meet your demands, but everyone loses in that situation...even you. Or you can stand back, put your male pride aside for a while and see what you really want down deep in your heart. <P>Until you have spent some time honestly examining yourself to understand your part in the breakup of the marriage, you don't want to make decisions about what you need to do. Sometimes hasty decisions are a long time being undone.<P>If you set up all these conditions for having your wife return then I assure you that you are not going to get them met. Now right now. This is a situation that you cannot threaten or force. <P>As for your self-esteem (doormat factor), affairs usually end within 2 years time.<BR>For your childrens sake can't you sacrifice some measure of your pride for a period of time so that they might have a future with both a mother and father. If not someone else will be raising your children and you will be seeing them on a schedule whether you like it or not and paying for two different households. Aren't they worth it?<P>You men usually have a more difficult time with your wife leaving you for another man. It takes a little while for your sense or your heart to override your pride. Please give yourself just a little more time. <BR> <BR>Buffy<P>P.S. Please read this article. It may help you understand.<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/003711.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/003711.html</A> <P> <p>[This message has been edited by buffy (edited July 20, 2000).]